Boat People

Mr J said:

Many Gen Ys are providing for the country, and will over time become the primary providers. Where is the appreciation?

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I was referring to the recalcitrant GenYs, those who exhibit a stubborn resistance to authority and little respect for the rest of the population and the hard work done in trying to create a decent environment for us all to enjoy, ie. the vandals, graffitiers, louts, etc. Not all GenYs are recalcitrant, but the significant number who are, spoil it for everyone.

There will always be people like that, and of all ages. You're talking about punk kids though, and most of them will grow up at some point. National service for all kids wouldn't be a horrible idea, since it teaches discipline and responsibility.

Mr J said:

National service for all kids wouldn't be a horrible idea, since it teaches discipline and responsibility.

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Yes I agree, and I don't think it would have to necessarily be military training either, although learning respect for authority and how to defend oneself is not a bad idea, as long as it's done responsibly by suitably qualified trainers.

There could be community service, for the conscientious objectors, which would teach them to appreciate and respect our country and our environment. Everyone should be required to do service of some kind and give something back to the community.

There might be fewer 'punk' kids resorting to drugs, binge drinking and violence (and perhaps even suicide) if their weekends were spent in camps learning discipline, respect, responsibility and how to be appreciative and caring, instead of hooning and night clubbing until dawn and kicking each others' heads in like too many of them do now.

Chris45 said:

There might be fewer 'punk' kids resorting to drugs, binge drinking and violence (and perhaps even suicide) if their weekends were spent in camps learning discipline, respect, responsibility and how to be appreciative and caring, instead of hooning and night clubbing until dawn and kicking each others' heads in like too many of them do now.

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Might help if the adults learned those things first. How about a camp for all the adults perpetuating the bad social skills.

Chris45 said:

instead of hooning and night clubbing until dawn and kicking each others' heads in like too many of them do now.

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I doubt anything has changed. It wasn't long ago that I was hitting the clubs most nights, and there wasn't much violence. There might be a scuffle between some drunks or thugs (both without female company) on the street, but that's about it. I get a strong "kids these days" vibe from you, Chris . Yeah, they're punks, but most of us probably were to various extents.

Enjoys nightclubbing till dawn ........ speaking of which got a hot date .Better put some pants on

Violence in clubs these days has gotten so extreme. I'm 21, and i have had so much trouble with fights. I have been stomped and beaten by 12 guys, within an inch of my life, because i knocked down a person in a 1 v 1.

My friend was dancing with a girl, and had 2 guys run up to him and glass him. Looked like he had been in a car crash. Everywhere i go there are fights. When i play touch footy, always a fight. When i play league, always a fight. Its like the world has gone mad.

But i hear the stories of my father, and many other's from the baby boomers, and it doesnt sound much better! The only difference is, now people use weapons, and gang up, very cowardly.

Hang on, are we talking about boat people? haha

So, Luke, you have two generations of your family who are peculiarly unable to avoid being in fights.
Doesn't that ring some bells?

I'm a baby boomer, as are most of my friends. I've known a lot of people over a lot of years from various generations.
I've never known a single person who has been in a fight.

Julia said:

So, Luke, you have two generations of your family who are peculiarly unable to avoid being in fights.
Doesn't that ring some bells?

I'm a baby boomer, as are most of my friends. I've known a lot of people over a lot of years from various generations.
I've never known a single person who has been in a fight.

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I am prone to getting into fights, i won't deny that, and im not proud of it. But what im saying is, that even people in my sporting teams, who aren't directly linked to me, are getting into a lot of fights.

I also know people who havent been in fights, but im saying the vast majority or people in my generation have. I obviously have very small sample data for your generation, but from my friends fathers etc, i have heard it wasnt much better back then either.

I'm guessing location/socio-economic status plays a part. Go to the wrong place in Sydney, get into a fight, and soon enough all of his cousins will start showing up . I never had a problem with fights in the city, but then I didn't go in for a night on the piss with a huge bunch of mates, I went with or to find female company. Make love, not war .

Mr J said:

I get a strong "kids these days" vibe from you, Chris . Yeah, they're punks, but most of us probably were to various extents.

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Well J, you and your friends might have been but I must have grown up in a very different environment to you because I don’t remember my peers being anything like 'kids' of these days. Perhaps I was extremely lucky but I went to discos and rock bands around Melbourne with no concern about violence and I never witnessed any of the violence that Lukeaye has just described, not even a mild punch-up. I have previously described the tragic story of a friend of mine who was recently left severely brain damaged after being bashed outside a nightclub by a savage thug.

The wanton vandalism and senseless graffiti we see everywhere these days, even to private property, was unknown when I was a kid and if any generation had a reason to be angry with the world it should have been mine. First, we faced the very real prospect of being sent off to die horribly in a steamy mosquito infested paddy field and then later, the threat of being vaporized (if we were lucky) or dying a slow and painful death from radiation (if we were unlucky) during an all out nuclear war.

Anyway, we’ve been down this "kids these days" path before and failed to agree on anything so let’s get back on topic and focus on the current problem of boat people.

Wysiwyg said:

Might help if the adults learned those things first. How about a camp for all the adults perpetuating the bad social skills.

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Well, we do have something like that already. It's called 'jail'.
But something really needs to be done to break the cycle and re-educating the kids seems to me to be the best place to start.

What will be the fate of the Tamils on the Oceanic Viking? Will they be forcibly removed, and if so, by whom? Or will Mr Rudd put a new spin on the stand-off and justify bringing them to Christmas Island?

Will he be tough but fair or fair but tough?

Calliope said:

What will be the fate of the Tamils on the Oceanic Viking? Will they be forcibly removed, and if so, by whom? Or will Mr Rudd put a new spin on the stand-off and justify bringing them to Christmas Island?

Will he be tough but fair or fair but tough?

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nice situation to be in.. the illegal immigrants dont need to do anything,

i wonder if next we will see the illegal immigrants jump onto cruise ships and container ships heading to australia in the asian ports.. once on board they cant be removed or a major incident occurs

this sets a precedent

Calliope said:

What will be the fate of the Tamils on the Oceanic Viking? Will they be forcibly removed, and if so, by whom? Or will Mr Rudd put a new spin on the stand-off and justify bringing them to Christmas Island?

Will he be tough but fair or fair but tough?

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Calliope, have you not heard the Labor "PARROTS" well rehearsed lines from Kevin Rudd's mouth, "PATIENCE, PATIENCE, PATIENCE.

They are all hopping this BAD situation will go away or some sort of miricale will happen. In the meantime, these Labor Party TWITS have no idea what to do. Rudd's so called Indonesian solution with the Indonesian President has BACK FIRED big time.

My guess is Rudd will have to face embarrassment and bring them to Australia for processing. Wait for the SPIN to come with it.

This is really the government's first setback since taking office and it's fascinating to see them flailing around so impotently. Even some of their own back bench are being critical of the dear Leader.

Ruds only hope now is to let 3,000,000 in and hope they all vote for him

pilots said:

Ruds only hope now is to let 3,000,000 in and hope they all vote for him

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There's a few hundred thousand displaced Tamils in Sri Lanka for starters. The local people smugglers are starting to get well organised. For a price they will take them straight to Christmas Island and by-pass Indonesia. In turn Mr Rudd should by-pass the smugglers and fly them out by Qantas. They will be forever grateful.

He should also ask Indonesia for a refund of taxpayers' money that he has handed over.

Just had a new Solar hot water system installed. The Solarhart man, Jack, is a former white farmer from Zimbabwe. Came out here 10 years ago after being forced off his farm by Mugabe's laws that supposedly give African land back to black Africans.

He grew maize, wheat, cattle, and bananas, employing up to 300 workers during harvest.
When he was forced off his farm, crops ready for harvest rotted in the field. He wasn't even allowed to sell his machinery.

Since coming to Australia he's kept in regular touch with his former farm foreman - a black man who was Jack's right hand man for more than ten years. The foreman told him that the crops rotted in the field after the farm was abandoned, no move was made to harvest them, everyone who lived on the farm, both black and white, had to leave, the machinery is still sitting where it was left, the farm has never been used since.

He said to Jack "Gee life was sweet on the farm. Now we have to live in hovels, go hungry, scrounge for food, very few people are employed. The black people over here hate Mugabe."
Jack regularly looks at his old farm via Google Earth (for those of you who are unfamiliar with it, it's the computer program that allows you to type in an address and you can then zoom in on that address to get a close up aerial view of it).
He says everything is in disrepair, cropping fields are going back to weeds and are being invaded by new forest growth etc.

The crazy part about Mugabe's plan is that the land is not given back to black Africans at all.....they're not even allowed to live on it and it's just standing there vacant and unproductive. Meanwhile the country is in a state of starvation and requires a constant stream of financial aid from overseas.

There are hundreds of thousands of white Zimbabweans who would love the opportunity to come to Australia. But the only way they can get in here is if they have previous business experience, a certain amount of capital, and give a commitment to start or buy a business in Australia within a certain time - I think it's 18 months or two years.

Compare this to how black Africans such as Sudanese refugees or these bloody boat people are treated here.....they can come in here, don't have to fulfil anywhere near the same criteria, get government handouts right from the start, don't have to start businesses, don't have to possess the skills to get a job, don't have to be English speakers. Every time I drive past Centrelink there are a mob of Sudanese hanging around outside. It's utterly ridiculous.

This idiot Rudd needs shooting for the stuff-up he's made with the illegal immigration issue.
He dismantled the tough measures put in place by Howard - measures that were proving very effective in addressing the problem of immigrants arriving illegally by boat.
We're spending almost three quarters of a billion dollars annually on giving them handouts, and the figure is increasing constantly.
Meanwhile, most of the truly suitable people who want to come here, people like white Zimbabweans who speak perfect English, are culturally similar and compatible with us, are educated and have the ability to slot into our society and become productive citizens immediately, are kept out.
It's downright pathetic.

Julia said:

This is really the government's first setback since taking office and it's fascinating to see them flailing around so impotently. Even some of their own back bench are being critical of the dear Leader.

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Mr Rudd's spin doctors must be working overtime to put a positive spin on his likely back down on his "hard line" stance.

It will go something like this;

"Unlike the previous government I make no apology for adopting the humane approach not to force these unfortunate people off the boat... etc"