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Someone just moved $5M in BTC from the 2016 Bitfinex hack
Someone from the 2016 Bitfinex hack is moving their stolen Bitcoin once again.
Would you take out a home loan for $x amount of Bitcoin?
Would you sign an employment contract and promise to pay staff $x amount of bit coin per week for the next 2 years?
https://bitcoin-realestate.com/
And 3 years ago...
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/10/13/london-mansion-on-sale-bitcoin.html#:~:text=An%20%C2%A318%20million%20(%24,4%2C000%20bitcoin%20at%20Friday's%20price.
Some people are already paid part cash, part crypto. It's happening now
This is from 2014...
Some people are already paid part cash, part crypto. It's happening now
You are missing the point completely.
I did not ask would you buy a property using Bitcoin, I asked would you take out a home loan denominated in Bitcoin.
For example, would you be willing to buy a house that’s worth $690,000 or about 30 Bitcoins and pay for it with a loan where you promise to pay back 1 Bitcoin a year for 30 years?
it would be an interest free loan, however if in 2 years time Bitcoins are worth $200,000 you are going to be bankrupted and Bitcoin drops to $200 the lender will be bankrupt.
my point is that it far to volatile to be used in any of the normal long term contracts we regular do in society, hence why it’s no a real currency.
think about if you signed up for a Bitcoin Home loan when Bitcoin was worth $500 and you promised to payback 1 Bitcoin a week for 30 years,.... good luck making the payments.
Isn't this the same risk incurred when you choose to take out financing denominated in another currency? For instance, if I was in Venezuela and chose to take out a home loan in USD but paying in Bolivars; chances are, I'd be in a similar predicament in a few years. Both are considered real currencies.
As a simple unit of exchange BTC is a complete failure, this is one of the things that turned me off BTC back in the day - just to volatile to be a genuine unit of exchange, and that volatility is partly driven by the cost of verifying transactions, mining is crazy expensive.my point is that it far to volatile to be used in any of the normal long term contracts we regular do in society, hence why it’s no a real currency.
You were on it pretty early from memory. Did you get on board?As a simple unit of exchange BTC is a complete failure, this is one of the things that turned me off BTC back in the day - just to volatile to be a genuine unit of exchange, and that volatility is partly driven by the cost of verifying transactions, mining is crazy expensive.
You are missing the point completely.
I did not ask would you buy a property using Bitcoin, I asked would you take out a home loan denominated in Bitcoin.
For example, would you be willing to buy a house that’s worth $690,000 or about 30 Bitcoins and pay for it with a loan where you promise to pay back 1 Bitcoin a year for 30 years?
it would be an interest free loan, however if in 2 years time Bitcoins are worth $200,000 you are going to be bankrupted and Bitcoin drops to $200 the lender will be bankrupt.
my point is that it far to volatile to be used in any of the normal long term contracts we regular do in society, hence why it’s no a real currency.
think about if you signed up for a Bitcoin Home loan when Bitcoin was worth $500 and you promised to payback 1 Bitcoin a week for 30 years,.... good luck making the payments.
You can bet that each week they are paid based on Dollars that are coverted each week into crypto, their wage is NOT based on fixed amount of crypto per hour.
think about it, would you sign up to pay an employment contract for 5 years paying a guaranteed 5 Bitcoin a year, not knowing how much that 5 Bitcoin will be worth in 6 months???
either party to that employment contract could be screwed depending on where Bitcoin price goes.
The only sense in borrowing money and paying interest is if it is denominated in a currency being progressively debased for whatever reason... "Inflating away the debt" sorry to speak.You are missing the point completely.
I did not ask would you buy a property using Bitcoin, I asked would you take out a home loan denominated in Bitcoin.
For example, would you be willing to buy a house that’s worth $690,000 or about 30 Bitcoins and pay for it with a loan where you promise to pay back 1 Bitcoin a year for 30 years?
it would be an interest free loan, however if in 2 years time Bitcoins are worth $200,000 you are going to be bankrupted and Bitcoin drops to $200 the lender will be bankrupt.
my point is that it far to volatile to be used in any of the normal long term contracts we regular do in society, hence why it’s no a real currency.
think about if you signed up for a Bitcoin Home loan when Bitcoin was worth $500 and you promised to payback 1 Bitcoin a week for 30 years,.... good luck making the payments.
You can bet that each week they are paid based on Dollars that are coverted each week into crypto, their wage is NOT based on fixed amount of crypto per hour.
think about it, would you sign up to pay an employment contract for 5 years paying a guaranteed 5 Bitcoin a year, not knowing how much that 5 Bitcoin will be worth in 6 months???
either party to that employment contract could be screwed depending on where Bitcoin price goes.
Mortgages make sense in any stable currency, even if the currency was appreciating by 2% a year it would still make sense in a lot of situations to take on debt, the key is stability but you wouldn’t even want to have a 30 day credit card debt denominated in something as unstable as Bitcoin.The only sense in borrowing money and paying interest is if it is denominated in a currency being progressively debased for whatever reason... "Inflating away the debt" sorry to speak.
Therefore if you would take out a mortgage in cryptocurrency you a structure it in such a way that that would happen if you had any brains.
you would make more sense to take out a mortgage in fiat and be paid and something like Bitcoin. Then you get the double effect of your debt inflating away and your means of payment massively inflating in value.
The idea of Bitcoin has never been to replace fiat but to outsmart it.
Same principle with gold, borrow in fiat get paid in gold if you can organise things in that way.
Which are?Mortgages make sense in any stable currency, even if the currency was appreciating by 2% a year it would still make sense in a lot of situations to take on debt, the key is stability but you wouldn’t even want to have a 30 day credit card debt denominated in something as unstable as Bitcoin.
you can get paid in gold if you like or bear skins or diamonds, but none of them are currencies they are commodities, and commodities do predate currencies as units of exchange, but we moved away from barter for very good reasons
Which are?
I'm sorry you didn't understand the question I asked you, possibly my fault it was not very explicit.which are what? Are you asking what situations it would make sense to take on debt in an appreciating currency?
You would simply just think of the 2% appreciation in the currency as being equivalent to interest, so as long as the interest rate on the loan is still low enough to when you add the 2% appreciation on then it makes sense.
think of it like this in a world with 2% inflation, a 5% loan interest rate is really a 3% interest rate.
So in a world with 2% deflation, the appreciating currency means a 1% interest rate is really a 3% interest rate.
so as long as the interest rate you pay combined with the appreciation rate is still lower than the return on investment you will make with the funds, taking out the loan still makes sense.
As I said what is important is the stability, over time, not whether it is deflation or inflation, either one is ok as long as it’s maintained in predictable rates, and doesn’t wildly fluctuate daily, weekly or yearly by amounts that could bankrupt you.
Or,
were you asking what were the reasons we moved away from bartering? I thought they were self evident, not only is barter cumbersome, but the underlying commodities are again not stable enough, take out a mortgage denominated in wheat or Iron ore faces the same risks I mentioned as Bitcoin, but at least they are real assets and their price will probably never drop to zero out side of any temporary short term contracting anomaly.
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