Bitcoin and cryptocurrency trading thread

[Skate]

Crypto has proven itself to be the trade of the century. Nothing compares.

@moXJO, yes that is a fair enough statement
The only thing (Bitcoin) is good for is speculation. The slightest whiff of negative news causes serious price correction but it certainly makes for an exciting story, one that borders on insanity at times (IMHO).

gambling on this fairy dust stuff hoping a bigger fool will come along and pay you more for these fake coins than you bought them for.

@Value Collector nailed it in one sentence.
Cryptocurrencies are fake coins made out of fairy dust. The notion that traders could lose almost if not all of their money seemed absurd but most likely possible. High conviction traders will trade it to nothing.

Taking a foolish risk with crypto
Could put you so "deep" it will virtually be impossible for some to get out, they are the ones I worry about.

Blockchain technology
@Dark1975, cryptocurrency uses Blockchain technology & they shouldn't be conflated. Coins + Blockchain = transaction record.

Skate.

 

[moXJO]

@moXJO, yes that is a fair enough statement
The only thing (Bitcoin) is good for is speculation. The slightest whiff of negative news causes serious price correction but it certainly makes for an exciting story, one that borders on insanity at times (IMHO).



@Value Collector nailed it in one sentence.
Cryptocurrencies are fake coins made out of fairy dust. The notion that traders could lose almost if not all of their money seemed absurd but most likely possible. High conviction traders will trade it to nothing.

Taking a foolish risk with crypto
Could put you so "deep" it will virtually be impossible for some to get out, they are the ones I worry about.

Blockchain technology
@Dark1975, cryptocurrency uses Blockchain technology & they shouldn't be conflated. Coins + Blockchain = transaction record.

Skate.

I think VC simply doesn't understand the trade.

For me, you guys pointing to stocks as a go to is crazy. And I'll tell anyone the same: "Go Where the Money is". 12% pa returns, Na thanks. I sipped that kool-aid in my youth.

I definitely think you need to understand whatever you are trading to get the edge. But this notion that stocks, houses, old world investments are the "go to" is wrong imo.

It's always about the investment, fear/greed, a large enough crowd and the almighty dollar.
Whatever is trending with thousands of % returns is the trade I want to understand.

If you are a trader standing on the sidelines while a trading instrument (that is based purely on fear/greed) with these types of returns then you just wasted your skills playing tiddlywinks.

Risk management and money you are prepared to lose (and you need bugger all capital). But you need the same amount of research as any other instrument.

And that's not to say these coins ain't horsesht either. But if horsesht was trading a couple 1000%. I'd be following one around with a bucket with no shame.

Your skills should apply to all markets. Crowd dynamics is what you are charting.

 

[Gunnerguy]

I think VC simply doesn't understand the trade.

For me, you guys pointing to stocks as a go to is crazy. And I'll tell anyone the same: "Go Where the Money is". 12% pa returns, Na thanks. I sipped that kool-aid in my youth.

I definitely think you need to understand whatever you are trading to get the edge. But this notion that stocks, houses, old world investments are the "go to" is wrong imo.

It's always about the investment, fear/greed, a large enough crowd and the almighty dollar.
Whatever is trending with thousands of % returns is the trade I want to understand.

If you are a trader standing on the sidelines while a trading instrument (that is based purely on fear/greed) with these types of returns then you just wasted your skills playing tiddlywinks.

Risk management and money you are prepared to lose (and you need bugger all capital). But you need the same amount of research as any other instrument.

And that's not to say these coins ain't horsesht either. But if horsesht was trading a couple 1000%. I'd be following one around with a bucket with no shame.

Your skills should apply to all markets. Crowd dynamics is what you are charting.

Great point, you nailed it

‘trading an instrument that is purely based on fear/greed’

and as been added before ‘not based on an underlying asset’

There is nothing underlying crypto currencies.

The ‘discussion/argument’ has now come full circle.

Crypto’s are purely based on the hope that a future buyer will pay more than one bought it for oneself (not necessarily blockchain I add). I just can’ t understand how some people can’t see this.

....are we still discussing this ?????

GG

 

[Value Collector]

Actually you are well mis informed unfortunately.
I recommend to dyor. But block chain technologies is taught at all universities including M.i.t.
And yes there is some ponzi coins , but you need to DYOR on any investments.
To say all these coins are worthless shows me the lack or misguided information you have on blockchain.

Any of them, even Bitcoin could easily fall out of fashion, and become worthless, their only value is what you can sell them for to some one else, and that is 100% support by sentiment there is no practical real world value outside of sentiment at the time, there is no floor in the price.

but feel free to trade it, just know what you are trading is nothing tangible.

 

[Value Collector]

I think VC simply doesn't understand the trade.

For me, you guys pointing to stocks as a go to is crazy. And I'll tell anyone the same: "Go Where the Money is". 12% pa returns, Na thanks. I sipped that kool-aid in my youth.

I definitely think you need to understand whatever you are trading to get the edge. But this notion that stocks, houses, old world investments are the "go to" is wrong imo.

It's always about the investment, fear/greed, a large enough crowd and the almighty dollar.
Whatever is trending with thousands of % returns is the trade I want to understand.

If you are a trader standing on the sidelines while a trading instrument (that is based purely on fear/greed) with these types of returns then you just wasted your skills playing tiddlywinks.

Risk management and money you are prepared to lose (and you need bugger all capital). But you need the same amount of research as any other instrument.

And that's not to say these coins ain't horsesht either. But if horsesht was trading a couple 1000%. I'd be following one around with a bucket with no shame.

Your skills should apply to all markets. Crowd dynamics is what you are charting.

Old world? As far as I can see it’s not old world, it’s just the real world, you know the things that people hope to be able to buy with Bitcoin profits, but in the mean time allowing other investors to buy up all the real world assets while they chase fairy dust.

 

[moXJO]

Great point, you nailed it

‘trading an instrument that is purely based on fear/greed’

and as been added before ‘not based on an underlying asset’

There is nothing underlying crypto currencies.

The ‘discussion/argument’ has now come full circle.

Crypto’s are purely based on the hope that a future buyer will pay more than one bought it for oneself (not necessarily blockchain I add). I just can’ t understand how some people can’t see this.

....are we still discussing this ?????

GG

And this current stock market run is based on fundamentals?
My plastic $100 is given value because the government says so. Yet bitcoin that's accepted by millions around the world in the same basic acceptance is not?

Doesn't matter if it is or not. I'm not here to discuss the semantics of "underlying value". I'm here to make as much money as possible.
And for me, volume on a trend is the underlying value. Not some bs figures some creative accounting has come up with.

Old world? As far as I can see it’s not old world, it’s just the real world, you know the things that people hope to be able to buy with Bitcoin profits, but in the mean time allowing other investors to buy up all the real world assets while they chase fairy dust.

You mean like the real world money trading crypto generates?
Gets you there a hell of a lot quicker.
How is trading for high % returns chasing fairy dust?
WTF is this argument VC?
If you are in this game to be emotional offended by people that traded imaginary coins and made over 10 million percent be my guest.
Is it a jealousy thing that buyers of $shib turned $1700 into a million bucks as recently as last month?

Stand back all you want but a trades a trade.
But these coins are making 1000s of % points a week.

 

[Value Collector]

And this current stock market run is based on fundamentals?
My plastic $100 is given value because the government says so. Yet bitcoin that's accepted by millions around the world in the same basic acceptance is not?

Doesn't matter if it is or not. I'm not here to discuss the semantics of "underlying value". I'm here to make as much money as possible.
And for me, volume on a trend is the underlying value. Not some bs figures some creative accounting has come up with.



You mean like the real world money trading crypto generates?
Gets you there a hell of a lot quicker.
How is trading for high % returns chasing fairy dust?
WTF is this argument VC?
If you are in this game to be emotional offended by people that traded imaginary coins and made over 10 million percent be my guest.
Is it a jealousy thing that buyers of $shib turned $1700 into a million bucks as recently as last month?

Stand back all you want but a trades a trade.
But these coins are making 1000s of % points a week.

No one is buying $100 notes hoping they are going to go up, or make them rich, they are only valuable as units of exchange because of their relative stability, while everyone knows they will go down in value over the long term, hence why I keep just enough $100 notes to pay my living expenses and get rid of the rest by lending them out at interest or using them to buy real assets.

bit coin is not really accepted as payment, no one quotes prices in Bitcoin, prices are always based in another currency and the Bitcoin price is converted at the time of sale, hence why Bitcoin is not a real currency, eg would you sign a 12 month lease in Bitcoin?? Knowing how volatile it is? No you wouldn’t it could bankrupt either the land lord or the tenant depending on the direction of swings.

have you made a $1,000,000 in crypto ? Or are you just chasing that dream?

——————
Any way good luck with it, as I said there is nothing wrong with gambling, I am just pointing out to the young players that they shouldn’t think they are investing when they are gambling.

no jealousy from my end, I have averaged 25% returns for 20 years, and built an 8 figure portfolio, and retired at 36 without ever needing crypto.

you quote big crypto returns, but what is your actual real world return from it? If you have made anything from it you better keep talking it up because you are standing on quick sand in my opinion.

 

[Gunnerguy]

And this current stock market run is based on fundamentals?
My plastic $100 is given value because the government says so. Yet bitcoin that's accepted by millions around the world in the same basic acceptance is not?

Doesn't matter if it is or not. I'm not here to discuss the semantics of "underlying value". I'm here to make as much money as possible.
And for me, volume on a trend is the underlying value. Not some bs figures some creative accounting has come up with.



You mean like the real world money trading crypto generates?
Gets you there a hell of a lot quicker.
How is trading for high % returns chasing fairy dust?
WTF is this argument VC?
If you are in this game to be emotional offended by people that traded imaginary coins and made over 10 million percent be my guest.
Is it a jealousy thing that buyers of $shib turned $1700 into a million bucks as recently as last month?

Stand back all you want but a trades a trade.
But these coins are making 1000s of % points a week.

1. I’m all for making money, but also being in the majority of those making money. I pity the poor buggers who have lost 50% in the last couple of weeks. The regulators with outlaw the other 50% in the next fewmonths

2. There’s nothing wrong with speculating.

3. One can never convince those who are ‘commited’ to their beliefs, like faith.

4. Past performance is not a guide to the future.

5. ‘This time is different’, Rogoff is a good book to read.

6. ASF is a community to understand, appreciate and educate the participants.

and finally ..... a cult is a cult is a cult, and 16% compounded over 30 years for me is good enough.

I don’t need a 0.00001% chance in a1000% gain in a year. Reminds me of Lotto.

GG

 

[Dark1975]

Blockchain technology
@Dark1975, cryptocurrency uses Blockchain technology & they shouldn't be conflated. Coins + Blockchain = transaction record.

Indeed, But actually a ledger,
I think there are many coins in crypto that won't add up to much,
But in terms of some coins like ripple =xrp , Is the technology that will be used for currency transfers that takes minutes for settlement, Cuts
the middle brokers out , Fees are less then 1 cent for transaction costs. Again the misconception that people think that this crypto will replace currency is silly, it merely the platform that will be used as the vehicle.
Or do you think they will continue to use S.W.I.F.T ( 25 Year old tech that settles in 3-4 days with outlandish fees ) Will still be used ?

Quite simply put the company Ripple ( xrp ) just employed the last U.S former treasurer Rosie Rios (43rd treasurer ) her signatures on the 100 dollar u.s bill. Do you think Rosie rios would leave treasuries and embroil herself in a **** coin ?
Any ways if you do your research go to the I.M.F home page and see that ripple has been piloting the last two years digital curriencies.
Pretty sure this technology platform provider Xrp will be used as the platform in the future.
'
And if you still not convinced, just look up the company ripple and the board of directors. Mostly half half either worked on currencies in the g20 / S.E.c or treasuries.

Mark my words... Best investment tech at current prices for a company in the future which will be as big as Amazon !!

 

[moXJO]

No one is buying $100 notes hoping they are going to go up, or make them rich, they are only valuable as units of exchange because of their relative stability, while everyone knows they will go down in value over the long term, hence why I keep just enough $100 notes to pay my living expenses and get rid of the rest by lending them out at interest or using them to buy real assets.

bit coin is not really accepted as payment, no one quotes prices in Bitcoin, prices are always based in another currency and the Bitcoin price is converted at the time of sale, hence why Bitcoin is not a real currency, eg would you sign a 12 month lease in Bitcoin?? Knowing how volatile it is? No you wouldn’t it could bankrupt either the land lord or the tenant depending on the direction of swings.

have you made a $1,000,000 in crypto ? Or are you just chasing that dream?

——————
Any way good luck with it, as I said there is nothing wrong with gambling, I am just pointing out to the young players that they shouldn’t think they are investing when they are gambling.

no jealousy from my end, I have averaged 25% returns for 20 years, and built an 8 figure portfolio, and retired at 36 without ever needing crypto.

you quote big crypto returns, but what is your actual real world return from it? If you have made anything from it you better keep talking it up because you are standing on quick sand in my opinion.

People do actually trade $100 notes And I've collected and traded that as well.

Invest, umm trade. Trade it. I in no way believe this is here forever. I believe in the returns.

Swinging dick competition on an open forum. No thanks. I got in back in 2013 or something. Been trading since. And yeah there's a reason I talk it up.

 

[moXJO]

1. I’m all for making money, but also being in the majority of those making money. I pity the poor buggers who have lost 50% in the last couple of weeks. The regulators with outlaw the other 50% in the next fewmonths

2. There’s nothing wrong with speculating.

3. One can never convince those who are ‘commited’ to their beliefs, like faith.

4. Past performance is not a guide to the future.

5. ‘This time is different’, Rogoff is a good book to read.

6. ASF is a community to understand, appreciate and educate the participants.

and finally ..... a cult is a cult is a cult, and 16% compounded over 30 years for me is good enough.

I don’t need a 0.00001% chance in a1000% gain in a year. Reminds me of Lotto.

GG

At which point did I say I love the product?
I love to trade the product. Give me something else with these returns and I'll trade that.

God if you hate crypto. You are really going to hate the digital race horses I have in a digital stable.

 

[Smurf1976]

Yet bitcoin that's accepted by millions around the world in the same basic acceptance is not?

Suppose that by whatever means I obtain a vast amount of Bitcoin.

Other than by means of converting it to an officially issued fiat currency, what exactly could I buy with it?

Will anyone agree to sell me a house, car or even a loaf of bread in exchange for Bitcoin?

Will any employer negotiate a salary denominated in Bitcoin?

Anyone entering business to business contracts denominated and payable in Bitcoin?

As a speculative trading instrument sure but I'm not seeing the real, practical utility of it other than for purposes of money laundering and so on.

 

[over9k]

The answer to your questions smurf is no, not YET.

And it's the YET that everyone are relying on



Jokes aside, cryptocurrency trading operates on the exact same fundamental as forex trading - confidence in the currency. When you get past all the BS and get down to what it is you're really truly trading, you are trading on the general market's confidence in it as a medium of exchange in the future. That's it.

 

[over9k]

So here's an average couple of days in the crypto world:





Reckon anybody's nervous at the moment?

 

[moXJO]

Suppose that by whatever means I obtain a vast amount of Bitcoin.

Other than by means of converting it to an officially issued fiat currency, what exactly could I buy with it?

Will anyone agree to sell me a house, car or even a loaf of bread in exchange for Bitcoin?

Will any employer negotiate a salary denominated in Bitcoin?

Anyone entering business to business contracts denominated and payable in Bitcoin?

As a speculative trading instrument sure but I'm not seeing the real, practical utility of it other than for purposes of money laundering and so on.

It's a terrible transaction process. ETH isn't much better. I've mentioned it multiple times.

There's a lot of online stuff you can buy.
But generally it's a fanboy ecosystem.

Australia (terrible)

Where You Can Spend Your Bitcoin Australia | Spend Cryptocurrency Australia

Note: For new listings we do charge a one off listing fee of $50 - please follow this form to add your business -

www.cryptomarkets.com.au

Luxury stuff

What Can You Buy With Bitcoin? (2021 Update) - Decrypt

You can use cryptocurrency in more ways than you might think—we’ve rounded up the best places you can spend your Bitcoin.

decrypt.co

I recently tried to buy a car here with crypto to no avail.

You get a card from binance that's just like a bank card. Uses up your crypto balance.

I wouldn't go out of my way to use crypto. Xrp is easy to use and super fast. Probably the stand out.

 

[moXJO]

So here's an average couple of days in the crypto world:

View attachment 124996

View attachment 124995

Reckon anybody's nervous at the moment?

Gas prices are super low right now. Everyone on edge.

 

[over9k]

Gas prices are super low right now. Everyone on edge.

Dunno about that.

All the bank ceo's are testifying to congress today (and also did yesterday):



You'll see that the banks have followed the same path as crypto today - mooned on the open & then spent the whole rest of the session melting and have flatlined back at yesterday's close price right about now, so I want to say that A: this is not a coincidence and B: the hearing has something to do with it.

 

[qldfrog]

I do not understand the negativity vs crypto currency displayed here.
From people who trades shares (and i do too) , many actually from money losing companies,
Mr Smurf, @Smurf1976 if tomorrow you get a fortune in tesla shares, you have no other way to spend it than to convert it in aud or USD.
Same as BTC!
Your $100 bill is based on nothing more than trust, as BTC..
I own some billion marks note from the german reich, wiuld ve hard to buy a loaf of bread with it now?
i use BTC above but can be any other crypto currency.
Unless you buy real tangible assets : land gold stuff RE or the few shares of companies who are in profit and returning you more than inflation,you are trading thin air.
The real question is why that attitude?
Brainwashing? When i buy sell xrp yesterday, i rape kids, have a meth lab and get bullets for my M16??
Whereas your $5 bill is virgin and pure
Let's be serious..
Sure it is risky..but one of my system lost 3k yesterday..good old shares...
So why?
Is it jealousy? Probably for some here but i doubt Mr Skate or Smurf would be so motivated
Self hate for missing the trend? Or the scare of something outside the nanny state and its regulations.
I am no big crypto guy, sold most of my bitcoin and just toy away with very small instant trading while working on my systems.but crypto gave me more profit this year with no work than literally days a week working on share systems and seeing my investment returns going in smoke due to currency move, shares trading stop or capital raising on top of the "fairer" issues of systems
good on you @moXJO for presenting a imho impartial and lucid view

 

[qldfrog]

Actually, maybe the problem is in naming
crypo currency.. cryptos are not what currencies are associated in people's mind.
Should be crypto store of value, or just crypto units / crypto credits

 

[qldfrog]

@moXJO, yes that is a fair enough statement
The only thing (Bitcoin) is good for is speculation. The slightest whiff of negative news causes serious price correction but it certainly makes for an exciting story, one that borders on insanity at times (IMHO).



@Value Collector nailed it in one sentence.
Cryptocurrencies are fake coins made out of fairy dust. The notion that traders could lose almost if not all of their money seemed absurd but most likely possible. High conviction traders will trade it to nothing.

Taking a foolish risk with crypto
Could put you so "deep" it will virtually be impossible for some to get out, they are the ones I worry about.

Blockchain technology
@Dark1975, cryptocurrency uses Blockchain technology & they shouldn't be conflated. Coins + Blockchain = transaction record.

Skate.

Mr Skate,
You know the upmost respect i have for you but when you say

Taking a foolish risk with crypto
Could put you so "deep" it will virtually be impossible for some to get out, they are the ones I worry about.

I understand the concern yet, what is the worst which can happen?
Back to $0
Compare this with the millions of people playing with options or CFD, buying IP on morgages

Their worst case scenario actually is negative$
It is normal to pay 2 or 3m AUD for a 2 or 3 bd flat in Sydney?
It is either crazy RE or shitty AUD..
Cryptos are benign vs these.