Bill Stacy?

I cant believe a "Professional" educator would get involved in long rhetoric of defense.
Its simply credibility killing.

Once you/I/us/everyone understands "How" to Fish fishing is easy with 1000s of "Fish" models you can develop yourself.
You'll also know how to evaluate your fishing and keep your self in the ocean.

There is massive $$s to be made by Great educators and Slick educators.

I remember going to a Guppy Seminar 15 yrs ago at $150/ head and it was booked out 3 nights running 200 at each sitting + his books + Newsletter.
With say $10K costs and $80K profit is a good earn even 15 yrs ago!
Could have bought a House for that then! Guppy is a proven professional educator.

Its a great gig and if you can get a paying audience why wouldn't you.

The biggest question people need to answer isn't "how do I make money trading"

Its How do I determine "Slick" and "Professional"

Personally I haven't read a great deal of Professional from "The Professional" in this thread.

I cant believe a "Professional" educator would get involved in long rhetoric of defense.
Its simply credibility killing.

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He's going to redeem his street cred' by sharing with us some recent &/or potential option day-trades, that would be indicative of his estimated weekly return of around 2-5K per/week I think?

I think prawn mentioned earlier that he was o.k. with Bill showing his broker statements etc. see below.

On the note of independent verification, any of us Mods are happy to look privately at your broker statements etc to see if members are trading profitably if you are not comfortable posting them in public.

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I'm honestly looking forward to learning a bit about retiring & day-trading options, within the safety of this forum.

Cheers,
Vicki

tech/a said:

I cant believe a "Professional" educator would get involved in long rhetoric of defense.
Its simply credibility killing.

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Exactly. Says it all, really.
Can you for one millisecond imagine, e.g. Nick Radge or Alan Hull getting into this sort of slanging match? Of course not.

Ok, so if I reply with a decent response I'm long winded?

Non professional? What do you want from me? I offer education. What you do with it is up to you and please please please don't forget...YOU ASKED US TO SHOW YOU! EVERY STEP YOU TOOK WAS YOUR OWN.

I stand by every thing I did and said and wrote over the last 6 years. I sleep very well and I regularly publish my results on my forum for people to see.

I was banned from replying until I saw your response so I asked for permission to defend myself against your outrageous lies and they granted me that opportunity.

You lost money because you made mistakes, not because of anything I "did" to you or Andrew "did" to you or the world "did" to you and now I see that you expecting me to give you my course for free? Lol...that says it all for me.

I'm just an educator. I show you what I do. You can do with that what you want but please don't blame me for something you were 100% in control of and could have 100% avoided. The fact is you were too lazy to do your own analysis and even in the end your own trading. You gave all your money to someone else to trade for you based on their risk profile and their bank and you lost money and now you are attacking me and calling it my fault.

That's just sad and some of the other comments made above are so silly that they aren't even worth responding to. Like I said, I did offer all my statements, uploaded them and linked them to this thread but it was removed by the moderators so it looks like I didn't offer any results which I did.

It looks like no matter what I say though you are still angry enough with yourself to twist it around so it's always my fault and never your fault. Are you going to accept responsibility for any of your trades? Trading is trading. It can go either way for everyone. YOU have to decide when to get in. YOU have to decide when to get out. How are ANY of the decisions you made my fault? Did I put a gun to your head?

And again I have to point out I was the advocate for learning. I was the one telling you all to do paper trading and back testing over the last few years at least so you can get a feel for how fast a stock can go up or down. Did you do any of my paper trading exercises? Did you monitor your positions every day like I was telling everyone and like every sensible intelligent trader would do? Did you apply any analysis to your entries or exits?

No. You gave all your money to Andrew and told him "do what you like". When you did that Andrew presumed that 100% of your bank was risk money. Where you not trading with money you could afford to lose? Even as educators we can only say what we know to be true. Making us out to be the "bad educators" only makes you look more foolish.

And as far as me being "professional" is concerned, I don't give a toss what you or anyone thinks to be quite frank. What I do care about is lies being told about me and believed, blame being pushed onto me when I had NOTHING to do with your losses. Where any of your losses my fault? Did you lose even 1c from anything I told you to do? Did you do any paper trading? Did you do my exercises? Did you heed my advice? Did you use my monitoring software? NO. The fault still lies squarely on your shoulders Vicki. I'm sad that you just sat and let all those hundreds of thousands of dollars march out the door without doing anything to stop it.

You should be embarrassed (as you clearly are) but DON'T take it out on me or your neighbour or you Priest or your friends. It was your fault that you lost more money than you can afford to lose. It was your fault that you didn't study or head my advice and now I'm paying for your mistakes with an erosion of my reputation which has always been one of wanting to help and offering up my time to help others.

That's who Bill Stacy is and I challenge anyone to PROVE otherwise. History shows the support I gave to everyone. My forums are FULL or proof of this. I made money from selling books and support. How your losses are my fault is beyond me. Stop blaming others for your stupidity and laziness.

You're explanation of options makes me cringe.

Judging from your free previews, you're comparing risk:reward between limited and unlimited risk positions. Of course the unlimited risk position will always sound worse in this context.

As for quoting returns on margin ...

mazzatelli said:

You're explanation of options makes me cringe.

Judging from your free previews, you're comparing risk:reward between limited and unlimited risk positions. Of course the unlimited risk position will always sound worse in this context.

As for quoting returns on margin ...

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I never quote returns on margin because I have never used margin.

My explanation of options? lol What explanation are you referring to and what part exactly makes you cringe? I explain options as fully and correctly as I know (or need to know) and I've been trading them for 6 years...so does the asx in their booklet which I advise everyone to read.

I'm not sure what your middle paragraph is trying to say. I trade straight options (these days) and sold Put Spreads (those days). None of that (as you no doubt already know) requires margin.

I'm honestly looking forward to learning a bit about retiring & day-trading options, within the safety of this forum.

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Good luck with that. The risks with day trading options are much higher so I suggest you don't. If you can't handle a simple Put Spread, day trading options will eat you alive, especially if you don't paper trade or do what your instructors tell you to. As far as I know, I'm the only one who has taken the time to detail and outline exactly my layouts and procedures for day trading options. No one else (that I have been able to find) has even bothered to attempt it. If you are going to try to figure it out yourself get ready for some major pain.

Bull put spreads don't require margin? Are you sure?
In your video you quote a hypothetical stock with -19.50/+18.50 bull put spread.

mazzatelli said:

Bull put spreads don't require margin? Are you sure?
In your video you quote a hypothetical stock with -19.50/+18.50 bull put spread.

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I have two margin loans, one personal and one for my MQG account. Never used one - ever. I have never borrowed against any stock (I presume that's what you mean by margin?) because I would never buy stock/shares.

Put spreads are easy. You sell a put and receive a cash premium, you take some of that cash premium and buy some insurance at a lower strike and keep the change. As the puts reduce in value (by time deterioration or a rise in the share/stock price) you can give back some of your kept premium to close your position keeping what's left. No margin is required. Not with this form of Put Spreads anyway. Unless there is another form of Put Spreads that I am unaware of it can all be done with straight cash.

OneDayWealth said:

No margin is required. Not with this form of Put Spreads anyway. Unless there is another form of Put Spreads that I am unaware of it can all be done with straight cash.

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I am not referring to a margin loan.
It's standard practice for brokers to take the value of the difference between strike prices of the short vertical - in the above example $1,000 in collateral/margin.

What special broker are you using?

tech/a said:

I cant believe a "Professional" educator would get involved in long rhetoric of defence.
Its simply credibility killing.

...

Personally I haven't read a great deal of Professional from "The Professional" in this thread.

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That's because I'm not a professional. I wasn't aware that defence had to be a certain length. If I addressed all the lies in this thread it would be ten times longer.

I've never made myself out to be anything other than I am. I'm just a **** kicker labourer with no real skills (apart from welding and IT). I had over 60 jobs in my life until I found trading. Trading made me much more money than a job ever did or could so I just did that.

At one of the seminars I networked and talked with Andrew. We ended up partnering because he had the trading method and I had the IT skills. I also was pretty good at using his method so I stepped in occasionally to help the newbies get their head around it. I had so much material that I decided to run a few seminars which were recorded and are a basic guide to understanding put spreads.

From there I started day trading options with great success but never wanted to teach it to anyone because I thought I was just a freak with a high tolerance for risk. It ends up that others wanted to know how I did it so I made some videos and method notes and started sharing it with others the best I could given that I'm a high school drop out with no oratory or professional education skills.

I've never made myself out to be anything other than a guy showing people (who ask!) what I do and how I do it. I'm just a guy telling people what I do and charging what it's worth. Paying thousands for a course that's going to make you thousands a week is a no brainer - people do it all the time when they buy a business (pay according to expected results). The only question that needs answering is "do you have the money to risk?", "are you willing to put in the effort to learn?" and "is this really for me?" and of course "will the course deliver on it's promise (inferred or otherwise)?".

I'm confident that my courses are good value and I offer the best support in the business but these days (to be honest) I'm looking more toward getting income from the internet because the returns are the same but the risk and (cash) investment is almost zero. I'm on here defending old news.

That's just sad and some of the other comments made above are so silly that they aren't even worth responding to. Like I said, I did offer all my statements, uploaded them and linked them to this thread but it was removed by the moderators so it looks like I didn't offer any results which I did.

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I think you've been given the o.k. to share your trades on this forum.
A golden oppertunity to show us how you make 2-5k p/w from 20k.

Maybe some recent trades, perhaps from last week, & also maybe some possible trades your looking at, for maybe this week?

I said everything I write on my website is true and if you have a problem with that then say so and challenge me on it. I will stand to any scrutiny because all I'm doing is showing people my method of trading and charging them less than many will make in a single week of using my method. Do you have a problem with that?

Do you have anything else constructive to add?

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As I said above, now's the time to show us an example of how it's done.

I'm happy for someone who considers themselves the voice of this forum to contact me directly at the phone numbers listed previously for a private chat and explanation of my methods and a tour of my strategy and the site. I've always got time for curious new investors and inquisitive experienced traders alike.

If you think I have gained free publicity I am willing to make a chunky donation to your favourite charity to compensate. Let's see if some good can come from this warm debate.

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Sounds constructive, maybe you could put aside 20k into a seperate trading acc. for the Moderator or us to observe, & when you've doubled that amount,
you could donate half to the Royal childrens Hospital or similar?

That would be some great P.R. for you & your web-site.


Kind regards,
Vicki

mazzatelli said:

I am not referring to a margin loan.
It's standard practice for brokers to take the value of the difference between strike prices of the short vertical - in the above example $1,000 in collateral/margin.

What special broker are you using?

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No special broker. I used to use etrade until they started asking for twice the risk.

Yes, in your example the cash you will need is the difference between the two strikes less cash premium received. But I use my own cash. Never borrowed.

So, yes, you do need something to risk (or else why would you get paid?) but I always use pure cash.

Vicki said:

I think you've been given the o.k. to share your trades on this forum.
A golden oppertunity to show us how you make 2-5k p/w from 20k.

Maybe some recent trades, perhaps from last week, & also maybe some possible trades your looking at, for maybe this week?




As I said above, now's the time to show us an example of how it's done.



Sounds constructive, maybe you could put aside 20k into a separate trading acc. for the Moderator or us to observe, & when you've doubled that amount,
you could donate half to the Royal childrens Hospital or similar?

That would be some great P.R. for you & your web-site.


Kind regards,
Vicki

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Good to see you have calmed down a bit.

I give to charity all the time. I have proof in a thread on my forum specifically for it. It's in the free section. Also on my forum you will find heaps of real trading examples for you to look at including several warts and all reports of longer trading periods but I must warn you. I make more than most people so please don't expect to achieve my results. 2-5k is very easy with 20k. Most traders on here if they applied what they know about technical analysis to my day trading method they would make much more than 2-5k and will never hold anything over night (one of the best parts of day trading).

Over the years I've noticed that most people lose money from holding an option position overnight. Nearly all the option trader corpses can be found in a heap in the morning after they wake to find they have lost much more than they wanted to. That's why I developed the day trading method. I saw too many people dying on overnight trades.

Regarding my trades. I rarely trade on a regular basis. I only trade when I need money. I never look forward (on a daily basis) and pay no attention to any news or do any fundamental analysis. I trade what's happening at the time using purely technical signals. I did trade last week but only twice (Wednesday and Friday). All up I lost $1,000 and made $2,800 so I only made $1,800 but then again I was only using $12,000. Still, that's 15% so if I was using a full $20,000 bank that would have been $3,000.

If a reasonable person from here (perhaps one of the moderators) would like to call me and see how I cope with heavy cross examination I would gladly speak for hours explaining in full the pros and cons of day trading as well as the pros and cons of going to work as a depressed slave. My only goal has ever been to help people escape their jobs. I've never been a "millionaireism" kind of guy. I just want to help people make enough to leave their jobs and follow their hobbies and passions. I even wrote an essay on it called "Urban Wealth".

All we (all of us) really need is enough money so we can live our lives in peace without having to go to a job we hate. If you love your job and are happy that's cool but I'm here to help those who are not and now this is turning into a commercial which is not my intention.

OneDayWealth said:

Yes, in your example the cash you will need is the difference between the two strikes less cash premium received. But I use my own cash. Never borrowed.

So, yes, you do need something to risk (or else why would you get paid?) but I always use pure cash.

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That is what is known as margin - the difference between the strikes less the premium received.

builder2818 said:

That is what is known as margin - the difference between the strikes less the premium received.

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Yep, I know that. I just wanted to make sure it was clear that I never borrow money in the normal "margin" sense.

OneDayWealth said:

No special broker. I used to use etrade until they started asking for twice the risk.

Yes, in your example the cash you will need is the difference between the two strikes less cash premium received. But I use my own cash. Never borrowed.

So, yes, you do need something to risk (or else why would you get paid?) but I always use pure cash.

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Oh dear, Bill...

You don't seem to know the difference in terminology between a "margin loan" and "margin" required by the exchange which is the difference between the two strikes less cash premium received. Surely, as an options educator you really should at least understand the basic terminology. A bit strange after supposedly six years of trading.

And yet you deride Vicky for not being good at handling a "simple bull put spread"? I think this statement alone shows a lot of ignorance on your part.

I'm not a pro either, but guessing I have a somewhat better understanding of options than you do. Mazzatelli is a pro so your arguments with him are not only showing a fair whack of ignorance but are also quite entertaining...lol

sails said:

Oh dear, Bill...

You don't seem to know the difference in terminology between a "margin loan" and "margin" required by the exchange which is the difference between the two strikes less cash premium received. Surely, as an options educator you really should at least understand the basic terminology. A bit strange after supposedly six years of trading.

And yet you deride Vicky for not being good at handling a "simple bull put spread"? I think this statement alone shows a lot of ignorance on your part.

I'm not a pro either, but guessing I have a somewhat better understanding of options than you do. Mazzatelli is a pro so your arguments with him are not only showing a fair whack of ignorance but are also quite entertaining...lol

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Lol...read my comment above! Of course I know what margin is. I just thought the comment was about borrowing money which I have clarified so go and be amused somewhere else.

OneDayWealth said:

Yep, I know that. I just wanted to make sure it was clear that I never borrow money in the normal "margin" sense.

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Oh dear again... you didn't have to make it clear. It's all in the context. "Margins" in the context of options has nothing to do with borrowing money in a "Margin Loan"...

Context is required in many instances of the english langauge. If you say I have just tied a bow, you don't then have to clarify that you are not talking about the bow of a boat or that you have just taken a bow to your audience...lol

Same with options. Margin means options margin and you don't have to qualify that you don't mean margin loan...

OneDayWealth said:

Lol...read my comment above! Of course I know what margin is. I just thought the comment was about borrowing money which I have clarified so go and be amused somewhere else.

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Why - the entertainment here is just fine...