Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

Bill Stacy?

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prawn_86 said:
Personally i dont see how anyone can charge for education unless they can provide broker statements showing a track record better than a given index :2twocents
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But if we use that logic no sports coach would ever be able to coach an athlete without a gold Olympic medal. I personally know several people who are much better traders than me even though I taught them. Usually because they have great discipline. Today I lost a grand, yesterday I made 2.8k. No one's perfect - least of all me but I still think I can save a new trader a lot of money by warning them of many pitfalls and guiding them away from dangerous practices. I've seen many self educated traders suffer unnecessary losses much greater than the cost of my courses which would have saved them from making that mistake - guaranteed.

Education costs money one way or another.
 
Hi guys,
Well alrighty then.

Lets call upon anybody else involved with that forum around the time-frame specified.
Or perhaps, we could request some-how to get the original posts transfered here, for all to see?
We could even try to track-down the original planet wealth e-book, & disseminate it here also, again for all too see and pass opinion on?
I'm pretty shore I lost mine [soon after I lost my shirt I think], but It's possible Arnold Thomas & Becker still have a copy of mine on file?

If so, would it be o.k. to post it here?..or maybe just some excerps, 1 or 2 pages?
I'll look into it.

How was it possible to sustain such losses?

I think it was something to do with being advised it was ok to risk up to half of your bank at any one time.

Spreading trades across diff. sectors would almost ensure a constant safety net, as at least some trades would succeed. blah blah.
The rest? well they could just be 'rolled-out' etc...
I think usually doubling the initial trade size to recover any losses etc.[actually I think we needed closer to triple in reallity!]

Well we all found out the hard way, that all trades can go south in any given month, for at least a few months in a row...It all seems so simple now!

Forget about the hype of an 80% success ratio.
I now would prefer to look at risk/reward ratio.
Which I think at the time was 3-4 to 1...[i.e risk $3-4 to make $1]
Again, a little different to their e-book examples!

Who cares about success ratio, when on the the occaisions you do get it wrong, you go backwards much faster!
I wish they could have 'spruiked that'..But I geuss 80% success ratio sounds so much sexier!

So, yes given the above details, one can easily see that your bank could be devastated very quickly.

Which gave rise to some of us asking just what sort of bank Andrew was trading with, given the size of his trades.

I geuss, wanting to be somehow re-assured we were all doing it right?
I remember on one such occaission, you briskly chimed-in & told us that was a "matter for his own capitol preservation"...[none of our business?]
A lame 'Practice what I say, not what I preach' sorta comment.
Not very inspiring I can tell you!

Okey-dokey, we've all been actively encouraged & sometimes assisted in taking out a second mortgage, to participate, & we start getting those sort of run-around flakey, don't ask the hard questions type attitude.
Pox.

Perhaps Aaron, [I think that was his name] could come forward, & tell us about his 80k in a month loss due to the "volitility advantage" strategy?
More of a "disadvantage" in his book I would think!

Anyway I'll see if I can dig up a couple of pages from the above mentioned e-book...That's of course if it doesn't embarrass anybody into pos. legal action?

Good night all, speak soon,
Vicki:)
p.s. planet wealth rocks:cautious:
 
Let me understand something here.......you spread out your entire bank (and some) on different stocks trading a bull put spread? If the market falls which it did in late 07, it wouldn't matter what stocks you were trading the spread over - they would all be losing trades.

Regardless if someone told you about their 80% success ratio, why would you put all that money on the line in the first place? If you are a student or customer to these "education" providers you are blind like everyone else - yes, the whiteboard examples never lose and no one ever thinks about their losses. It's only what they think they can get. Were you thinking you could put $150k into these trades and pick up $50k?

After taking such a heavy loss, the last thing you should be doing is chasing the market and doubling/tripling your next positions to try and recoup your losses.
 
This reminds me of 18-25 y/os presenting small business marketing success presentations to over 40-70 y/os ... ready for retirement or mid-life crisis, starting a business.

The person in this thread, I don't care to mention his name, said he has trading records to prove his stuff, get an independent, whether a mod or someone this forum can trust to validate it with extreme caution and prejudice (I say the latter in a good way).

Otherwise, it is just smooth talk or double-talk, boring ... and potentially misleading (aka how do you sleep at night ... if you don't off yourself, or you will be the loneliest person at the old people's home).

Again, I believe you said, you can show your trading success, so put up or shut up. Don't bother quoting me except for the last bit ... put up or shut up.
 
Hi Builder2818,
The short answer is yes, you're a 100% correct.
We took the bait, hook line & sinker, like the gullable fools we were.

Which is why I would suggest that anybody feeling tempted into such situations, should perform a "reallity check" by bouncing the idea's off unbiased & more experienced people on forums like this.

So people like you can, as some tried before [before being silenced on p/w],
can explane in plain detail what a steaming pile of crap we were being fed.

Thanks,
Vicki

p.s.Maybe some of his current students could share 'blow by blow' their trades &/or experiences day-trading options, updated on a regular basis.
For the benefit & discussion of all?
 
On the note of independent verification, any of us Mods are happy to look privately at your broker statements etc to see if members are trading profitably if you are not comfortable posting them in public.

This has been done before and settled many arguements.
 
prawn_86 said:
On the note of independent verification, any of us Mods are happy to look privately at your broker statements etc to see if members are trading profitably if you are not comfortable posting them in public.

This has been done before and settled many arguements.
Click to expand...

It has also been shown in the past by various members how easy it is to knock up a dodgy one in a matter of minutes if one is creativly inclined.

cheers.

sorry to butt in to this intresting thread, just thought i,d point out this fact.
 
prawn_86 said:
Personally i dont see how anyone can charge for education unless they can provide broker statements showing a track record better than a given index :2twocents
Click to expand...

mazzatelli said:
Why would they even bother educating? It requires a lot of work to trade profitably.

Teaching a supposed profitable system to the masses, only reduces its likelihood of success in the future.
Click to expand...

Vicki said:
p.s.Maybe some of his current students could share 'blow by blow' their trades &/or experiences day-trading options, updated on a regular basis.
For the benefit & discussion of all?
Click to expand...

prawn_86 said:
On the note of independent verification, any of us Mods are happy to look privately at your broker statements etc to see if members are trading profitably if you are not comfortable posting them in public.

This has been done before and settled many arguements.
Click to expand...

nunthewiser said:
It has also been shown in the past by various members how easy it is to knock up a dodgy one in a matter of minutes if one is creativly inclined.

cheers.

sorry to butt in to this intresting thread, just thought i,d point out this fact.
Click to expand...

Mazatelli is right. Traders are competing against other traders. The moment a trader shares their secrets, then the number of people applying that successful strategy increases, reducing the returns of the strategy and diminishing its worth.
 
the phantom said:
Again, I believe you said, you can show your trading success, so put up or shut up. Don't bother quoting me except for the last bit ... put up or shut up.
Click to expand...

I did, I posted heaps of trades from an extended period (including losses of course!!!) and they were removed from this thread and I was banned from this forum so I was given no way to defend myself or my record. I have posted heaps of periods on my forum and it's still up there now if you would care to do some research.

To Vicky, Did you EVER take my advice and close a trade early when it showed some profit or were you like 90% of the complainers and do none of what I kept screaming for everyone to do and that was to close trades early as soon as they have reached an "acceptable" profit? I bet not.

Did you ever do any technical analysis for yourself? Did you ever place any of your own trades? Did you EVER consider yourself responsible for your own trades or did you just "follow" Andrew's trades without thinking? And if you decided to just follow someone else's trades without thinking did you stop to think that maybe Andrew had a large bank and he was trading in a certain style? Did you ever take responsibility for your own trading and future?

Was I not ALWAYS telling people to make their OWN decisions? Was I not always telling you to close your trades when a reasonable amount of profit was available? I bet you just left all your trades to expire in order to extract every last cent like most greedy new traders. Did you ever study the strategy yourself? Did you ever do any paper trading (I'd like to see evidence of that if you did)? Did you even download my spread software and fill out your positions every day so you could know that you were in profit or loss and make a decision?

If you had put in even a little effort you would have learnt how to trade yourself and made your own decisions and not have just sat there and watch all your money disappear. You have yourself to blame and no one else I'm afraid and the more you rant on and on in here the more evidence you are providing to us all.

I never once suggested that people just sit and watch all their money disappear without lifting a finger to stop the losses. I never suggested that you read an ebook and never practice for yourself the skill. I never said to take no interest in your portfolio's performance and I certainly never said to leave your trades open without taking an interest in their progress. I also issued many warnings to people to not just roll over continuously. That would be insane and it seems like what you did.

Vicki, I deny responsibility for one cent of your losses and I am calling you a lazy loser who is now crying and trying to find someone to blame (hey! YOU started it!). If you weren't so lazy you would taken all my advice and done your own trades and learnt how to monitor and close and your greed would not have run away with you. I say greed because the only way you could EVER get yourself into this bitter mess was by refusing to take responsibility for your own investing and actions. Had you done what I told you to do you would still be trading today.

The FACTS are that you did not take it seriously and you lost your money just like everyone else who does not take the risks of stock market trading seriously and decided to take the "easy road" and just let someone else make all the decisions for you. I have always been the guy who was suggesting that all traders should learn how to trade by themselves so they can be responsible for their own profits and losses.

You could not possibly have any gripe with me because I was the only one out there (and here) who is trying to teach you something. If you choose to ignore all my warnings and lessons then you really have no right to complain and you certainly have no right to come on here and defame and slander me in front of the whole world.

Stop your little tantrum and take a long hard look at why you sat back and just watched and let all your money disappear. You're obviously in a lot of trouble and I would not want that for anyone but it's making you say crazy things because you think I'm not going to catch you out but I did now that people have heard what I tried to do to protect you they might not be so taken by your infernal and unjustified attack on someone who has only ever tried to help and educate people.

You are attacking the wrong person! Look in the mirror.
 
nulla nulla said:
Mazatelli is right. Traders are competing against other traders. The moment a trader shares their secrets, then the number of people applying that successful strategy increases, reducing the returns of the strategy and diminishing its worth.
Click to expand...

That's bunkum. No facts could ever support this view.
 
OneDayWealth said:
I did, I posted heaps of trades from an extended period (including losses of course!!!) and they were removed from this thread and I was banned from this forum so I was given no way to defend myself or my record. I have posted heaps of periods on my forum and it's still up there now if you would care to do some research.

To Vicky, Did you EVER take my advice and close a trade early when it showed some profit or were you like 90% of the complainers and do none of what I kept screaming for everyone to do and that was to close trades early as soon as they have reached an "acceptable" profit? I bet not.

Did you ever do any technical analysis for yourself? Did you ever place any of your own trades? Did you EVER consider yourself responsible for your own trades or did you just "follow" Andrew's trades without thinking? And if you decided to just follow someone else's trades without thinking did you stop to think that maybe Andrew had a large bank and he was trading in a certain style? Did you ever take responsibility for your own trading and future?

Was I not ALWAYS telling people to make their OWN decisions? Was I not always telling you to close your trades when a reasonable amount of profit was available? I bet you just left all your trades to expire in order to extract every last cent like most greedy new traders. Did you ever study the strategy yourself? Did you ever do any paper trading (I'd like to see evidence of that if you did)? Did you even download my spread software and fill out your positions every day so you could know that you were in profit or loss and make a decision?

If you had put in even a little effort you would have learnt how to trade yourself and made your own decisions and not have just sat there and watch all your money disappear. You have yourself to blame and no one else I'm afraid and the more you rant on and on in here the more evidence you are providing to us all.

I never once suggested that people just sit and watch all their money disappear without lifting a finger to stop the losses. I never suggested that you read an ebook and never practice for yourself the skill. I never said to take no interest in your portfolio's performance and I certainly never said to leave your trades open without taking an interest in their progress. I also issued many warnings to people to not just roll over continuously. That would be insane and it seems like what you did.

Vicki, I deny responsibility for one cent of your losses and I am calling you a lazy loser who is now crying and trying to find someone to blame (hey! YOU started it!). If you weren't so lazy you would taken all my advice and done your own trades and learnt how to monitor and close and your greed would not have run away with you. I say greed because the only way you could EVER get yourself into this bitter mess was by refusing to take responsibility for your own investing and actions. Had you done what I told you to do you would still be trading today.

The FACTS are that you did not take it seriously and you lost your money just like everyone else who does not take the risks of stock market trading seriously and decided to take the "easy road" and just let someone else make all the decisions for you. I have always been the guy who was suggesting that all traders should learn how to trade by themselves so they can be responsible for their own profits and losses.

You could not possibly have any gripe with me because I was the only one out there (and here) who is trying to teach you something. If you choose to ignore all my warnings and lessons then you really have no right to complain and you certainly have no right to come on here and defame and slander me in front of the whole world.

Stop your little tantrum and take a long hard look at why you sat back and just watched and let all your money disappear. You're obviously in a lot of trouble and I would not want that for anyone but it's making you say crazy things because you think I'm not going to catch you out but I did now that people have heard what I tried to do to protect you they might not be so taken by your infernal and unjustified attack on someone who has only ever tried to help and educate people.

You are attacking the wrong person! Look in the mirror.
Click to expand...
After reading this outburst (and your earlier posts) I find it hilarious that you had the temerity to label my earlier post as bunkum. :rolleyes: :( :banghead:
 
I posted heaps of trades from an extended period (including losses of course!!!) and they were removed from this thread and I was banned from this forum so I was given no way to defend myself or my record. I have posted heaps of periods on my forum and it's still up there now if you would care to do some research.
Click to expand...

You were banned? When, We are talking now aren't we?



To Vicky, Did you EVER take my advice and close a trade early when it showed some profit or were you like 90% of the complainers and do none of what I kept screaming for everyone to do and that was to close trades early as soon as they have reached an "acceptable" profit? I bet not.
Click to expand...

A:Yes I did close some early, but as you well know some premiums were so lean [20% of the spread] that after 'buying back' your spread & allowing brokerage etc. it sometimes became a pointless exercise.
Unless I was a couple of days from expiry with an ATM spread, I didn't bother.
Also, as usual you leave out stuff like, a lot of the time the spreads were deep ITM early in the piece.



Did you stop to think that maybe Andrew had a large bank and he was trading in a certain style?
Click to expand...

A:Yes, a certain style,It was called the "DIMITRI STRATEGY" Using the "MONEY PIE" money managment 'STYLE'
Whereby, it was considered acceptable to risk initially up too 50% of your bank.
Whether you have $1000,000 or $100,000, percentage risks are the same, so if his or our bank balance hits ZERO, guess what? it's still ZERO!!
No amount of spin will change that...Unless you work for the Federal Reserve?

You were once a 'share holder' in Planet Wealth & an avid advocate for their/your original e-book.
Do you still have a copy?..If so, could you share it with us?..Just the 'selling insurance' part will do.



If you choose to ignore all my warnings and lessons then you really have no right to complain and you certainly have no right to come on here and defame and slander me in front of the whole world.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I think you posted earlier, something like "Only a person with half a brain would be stupid enough to ever risk their money on such a "RISKY stategy"

Wish you & him could've just saved us all the trouble, and stated that at the beginning....Jeez.
But then I geuss we would've just stayed with Jamie Mac.


Did you ever place any of your own trades? Did you EVER consider yourself responsible for your own trades
Click to expand...

A:Yes, originally I was with 21st century academy doing covered calls, & plodding away o.k. Before a couple of spin-doctors came on our forum & spruiked the "DIMITRI STRATEGY"
There's a sucker born every minute I geuss? [only myself to blame yeh]


I posted heaps of trades from an extended period (including losses of course!!!) and they were removed
Click to expand...

Well bill, your moment to shine has finally arrived.
As I don't know much about your current training with regard to day-trading options.
Perhaps this's an invaluable opportunity to show the world the effectiveness of your current stategy, & maybe share with us your thoughts on some of your potential trades?

Maybe, just as an exercise, we could all paper-trade along with you, using a hypothetical bank of 20K.
Then when we're seeing 2-5K a week average, you'll certainly have the ear of a much greater audiance!


How 'bout it guys?..I'm in!



Kind regards,
Vicki:)

p.s. Thankfully my brother & myself inherited 105 acres in byron bay last year.
We both still trade, infrequently, [modest amounts] but only do'n covered calls...what I was originally doing.
 
Vicki said:
Well bill, your moment to shine has finally arrived.
As I don't know much about your current training with regard to day-trading options.
Perhaps this's an invaluable opportunity to show the world the effectiveness of your current stategy, & maybe share with us your thoughts on some of your potential trades?

Maybe, just as an exercise, we could all paper-trade along with you, using a hypothetical bank of 20K.
Then when we're seeing 2-5K a week average, you'll certainly have the ear of a much greater audiance!


How 'bout it guys?..I'm in!



.
Click to expand...

Sounds fair to me actually.

But we all know there will be a reason it cant happen :rolleyes:
 
nunthewiser said:
Sounds fair to me actually.

But we all know there will be a reason it cant happen :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
A short term sample is probably not appropriate.

Even short term systems can have a bad short term period probably.

Are there some disclaimers like 'over 12 months' or the like to allow for this?

Or, is it a guaranteed $X over any month type thing?

If so, what an amazing opportunity to gain further business by proving it live here? :)
 
If you're going to keep doing covered calls, maybe you should have a read of this on Wayne's blog:

http://sigmaoptions.blogspot.com/200...c-premium.html
Click to expand...

Thanks builder2818,
I had a quick look at his site, some very important issues.
Especially with the 'looming' financial meltdown in the American & European markets.
It's why I'm prety much sitting on the side-lines for now.

A short term sample is probably not appropriate.

Even short term systems can have a bad short term period probably.

Are there some disclaimers like 'over 12 months' or the like to allow for this?

Or, is it a guaranteed $X over any month type thing?

If so, what an amazing opportunity to gain further business by proving it live here?
Click to expand...

Well said kennas, It indeed would be an amazing opportunity.
I look forward to some encouraging results/examples.

Regards,
Vicki:)
 

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