Bill Stacy?

wayneL said:

Bill

its not theory, its just mathwmatics. you cant fight the raw truth of numbers.

cfds have nothing to do with borrowing. they are margined like futures.

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CFDs have nothing to do with borrowing? Wow!! Ok, at least now we know your limits of understanding...

https://www.moneysmart.gov.au/investing/complex-investments/contracts-for-difference
How contracts for difference work

Under a CFD, you are borrowing money to bet on the short-term movement of share prices. If you’re right, you make money. If you’re wrong, you lose.
Imagine that there is a buyer and a seller of a CFD. If the share price increases, the buyer wins. If the share price decreases, the seller wins.
You are not buying the underlying asset, just betting on the price movement.
The risks

CFDs are generally highly geared products. This means the money you invest will generally only be a fraction of the market value of the shares (or other market asset) you’re ‘contracting’ for.
For example, you may only have to put up $5000 for a $100,000 contract. You are effectively borrowing the other 95%. In that case, a 1% change in the share price can turn into a $20,000 loss.
The contract is a legally binding agreement, no matter what the market value of the asset is. If the market turns against you, the issuer of the contract:

• Will require you to pay extra money
• May close out your contract, for whatever it’s worth at the time, to recover some money. If there’s not enough money, you will still be legally obliged to make up the difference

...

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ROTFLMAO!

Ok, that's two down, is there anyone left?

OneDayWealth said:

CFDs have nothing to do with borrowing? Wow!! Ok, at least now we know your limits of understanding...

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Bill whats your position sizing?

OneDayWealth said:

CFDs have nothing to do with borrowing? Wow!! Ok, at least now we know your limits of understanding...


ROTFLMAO!

Ok, that's two down, is there anyone left?

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Nice you picked out the idiots guide to finance out of all the sources on the web.

Here's a bit about margin.

Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contract_for_difference#Trading

CFDs are traded on margin, and the trader must maintain the minimum margin level at all times. A typical feature of CFD trading is that profit and loss and margin requirement is calculated constantly in real time and shown to the trader on screen. If the amount of money deposited with CFD broker drops below minimum margin level, margin calls can be made. Traders may need to cover these margins quickly otherwise the CFD provider may liquidate their positions.

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Trembling Hand said:

Bill I would really like to see how you position size your trades?

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It depends on how much money I have to go shopping with on the day. Usually 5-20k of my "high risk" funds account.

skyQuake said:

Nice you picked out the idiots guide to finance out of all the sources on the web.

Here's a bit about margin.

Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contract_for_difference#Trading

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I'll quote the government you can quote Wiki. It's still the same story. By the way, liquidating your position is fine if the market has a price at that point but when your CFD position open in the morning and the stock is way below (if you're long) and the sell price means there's a shortfall. You better find some cash real fast or you're in BIG strife. That's why I don't like CFDs or Eminis or any other type of trading where you have to borrow massive amounts of money from someone. I prefer to trade with the cash I have at my disposal. Far safer and if you lose you only lose your own money.

I did consider CFD when I first heard about them but after grilling the broker on how they actually work (it took me a while to get him to admit the massive risk I face in a 911 or GFC type event) and was horrified - no thanks.

OneDayWealth said:

It depends on how much money I have to go shopping with on the day. Usually 5-20k of my "high risk" funds account.

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Thats just dumb avoidance. What do you teach your paying students about position size and risk of ruin?

OneDayWealth said:

I'll quote the government you can quote Wiki. It's still the same story. By the way, liquidating your position is fine if the market has a price at that point but when your CFD position open in the morning and the stock is way below (if you're long) and the sell price means there's a shortfall. You better find some cash real fast or you're in BIG strife. That's why I don't like CFDs or Eminis or any other type of trading where you have to borrow massive amounts of money from someone. I prefer to trade with the cash I have at my disposal. Far safer and if you lose you only lose your own money.

I did consider CFD when I first heard about them but after grilling the broker on how they actually work (it took me a while to get him to admit the massive risk I face in a 911 or GFC type event) and was horrified - no thanks.

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Fear of overnight gaps - understandable.

1. But were we not discussing intraday trades?
2. Find me a large cap that has gapped more than 5% in the last year. Then see if you can find some 7% plus. Chances are at worst you'll lose your 5% margin.
3. Guarantee stop loss orders if your're trading countrend and worried about gaps.

Trembling Hand said:

Thats just dumb avoidance. What do you teach your paying students about position size and risk of ruin?

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That's just a dumb response. I just told you. What's your point aggravator?! If you're just going to come back with more and more insults because you just HATE the fact I'm doing something you can't, don't or won't do then just go and play with yourself and stay out of this thread. You are so angry that it's affecting your ability to have a reasonable discussion. In the end I don't have to keep repeating myself over and over and over and over again just because you refuse to listen or can't let go of your bone. I will tell you once more...

I tell them what I do and what my real life experience is and leave it up to them to decide how much they can risk. I deal with adults not children. I don't patronise them like you seem to want me to do. These people are all (in my real experience) capable of making their own decisions about what to risk and how much they can stand to lose. I tell them to paper trade so freaking much that by the time they even put one cent into the real market they all know exactly what to expect, what's normal and what could and is most likely to happen. I then give them all my own experience and we discuss what's happened to me over the years and years I've been doing this. NO other stock market educator I've ever come across spend more time with their members than me. That's why I decided to share what I do.

I tell them the chance of loss is high (from the outset - I make no bones about that) higher still if they don't monitor their trades. I also tell them how many times I've seen an option trade drop so suddenly that they were unable to take a decent acceptable loss. From my direct experience that can happen about once every 4 or 5 hundred trades. All the rest can be exited for a MAXIMUM loss of around 10% with a 15% (no excuses exit). Many, many times I have exited with far less than that. If things look shaky I sometimes exit with very little loss.

Sometimes it goes up and comes down so only a tiny profit is made. Sometimes it goes down straight away and they take the 10% but that's not all the time and that's NOT taking previous profit into account which is real world. If I made $2,000 yesterday and today I take $1,000, that might be more than 10% but I don't care because I'm still up $1,000 but like I said, that rarely happens. If your mind is right and you obey the rules created from my real world experience you'll see what I see and take acceptable losses.

Stop hating so much and you'll see that I'm not trying to hurt anyone. I treat people like adults and of course want them to succeed. What purpose would it serve if all I did was show people how to hurt themselves? You are so full of vile hate that no matter what my reasonable response is you want to kill me and patronise my members. You have some real issues dude. Work them out or you'll have a freaking heart attack! Jeeeez.

skyQuake said:

Fear of overnight gaps - understandable.

1. But were we not discussing intraday trades?
2. Find me a large cap that has gapped more than 5% in the last year. Then see if you can find some 7% plus. Chances are at worst you'll lose your 5% margin.
3. Guarantee stop loss orders if you're trading countrend and worried about gaps.

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In my experience the only gaps I've seen during the day have been after a trading halt. This is part of market risk we all face but in the end I just don't like borrowing massive amounts of money off anyone if I can at all avoid it. If you're comfortable with that - fine. I'm not and so I choose options because they are cheap, move in predictable amounts and can be traded effectively if you know what you're doing and have the right tools. Horses for courses. I'm just not a fan of CFDs and my experience lies mostly in day trading options, that's what I'm comfortable with and it works for me on a regular basis so I stick with it. Even if CFDs were equally as risky and profitable, I do what I do and will stick to it for now.

LOL so you have no idea about the subject at all.

If you could of answered the question the discussion could of moved forward but you cannot and as such will still be treated as a cowboy.

Dangerous.

Trembling Hand said:

LOL so you have no idea about the subject at all.

If you could of answered the question the discussion could of moved forward but you cannot and as such will still be treated as a cowboy.

Dangerous.

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Well, I expect you're an expert in being a dangerous cowboy. I feel so bad to see you walk away so sad and defeated when you could have learned something new. I answered every one of your stupid inane boring and predictable questions in great and fantastic detail trying (in vain) to help you understand. I feel soooo bad that you could not understand my answers or that they were not to your (oh so important) satisfaction. Maybe once you read up some more we will be able to enjoy the luxury of your excellent company once again. I will miss you oh so very much. Goodbye and thank you for your excellent (though pointless) I-hate-all-things-new "hate posts". I hope one day you will get over your hatred of new things so that you can move on. I wish you all the best.

Good riddance.

haha this thread is absolute gold.

Bill in one sentence per question can you answer the following please:

1. What is your R:R on an 'average' trade that you take?
2. What % of your account do you risk per trade?
3. What% do you tell your students they should risk per trade?
4. Can you provide some broker statements to a mod such as myself in order to verify some of your claims?

OneDayWealth said:

I answered every one of your stupid inane boring and predictable questions in great and fantastic detail trying (in vain) to help you understand.

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No you have not. Not at all. Position size is a simple 1 or 2 line question and you haven't more probably cannot answer it. See Prawns questions.

prawn_86 said:

haha this thread is absolute gold.

Bill in one sentence per question can you answer the following please:

1. What is your R:R on an 'average' trade that you take?
2. What % of your account do you risk per trade?
3. What% do you tell your students they should risk per trade?
4. Can you provide some broker statements to a mod such as myself in order to verify some of your claims?

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Sigh...we've been through all this a million times already. Back in round 1 I posted 4 weeks worth of real live trades and it was not posted for all to see - rejected for obvious reasons - it proved I was real and would have embarrassed regular posters. You had your chance and thew it back in my face because it proved I was not a fraud - just a normal guy with winners and losers just like other traders. It had winners, losers, the works. I've been down this road and I will be accused of photoshoping, if I don't post I'll be accused of lying and making this all up (though why I would want to is beyond me). Neither will be true but I will always lose in here so I wonder how many others would take a 100% losing bet and then we'll go several rounds with that conversation again and again and again. Now you come here, mock me and expect me to go through it all over again?

I'll be accused of posting old stats (no matter how real they are) or you'll find something else to hound me about and I really couldn't be bothered. I've already wasted far too much time here already, offered tonnes of proof and answered every stupid inane question designed to trip me up and they have all failed. Why? because I'm real, what I do is real and what I teach is based on real experience to real people...and I've been trading this method for years, at first with Macquarie, then with eTrade then and more recently with Trader dealer.

I've posted heaps and heaps of trades over the years to my members and traded with them for months and months on end - live (after the fact of course so as not to lead the market). I don't have to enter arm wrestle comps or provide more statements than I already have. Look up my deleted-by-mods post history and you'll see that I've already offered up real proof to your mods. Heaps of it in fact. Ask them why they refused to post it forcing me to go round after round answering the same old questions time and time again. I made links available to real statements and everything for everyone to see and my post was deleted. I think they said something about "the details were too personal" or something. I can't really remember to be honest, it was back in 09 I think. But I offered proof and it was rejected and deleted. I wonder why. Actually, I know why.

Trembling Hand said:

No you have not. Not at all. Position size is a simple 1 or 2 line question and you haven't more probably cannot answer it. See Prawns questions.

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Couldn't stay away for more than 25 minutes!! lol classic.

OneDayWealth said:

Well, I expect you're an expert in being a dangerous cowboy. I feel so bad to see you walk away so sad and defeated when you could have learned something new. I answered every one of your stupid inane boring and predictable questions in great and fantastic detail trying (in vain) to help you understand. I feel soooo bad that you could not understand my answers or that they were not to your (oh so important) satisfaction. Maybe once you read up some more we will be able to enjoy the luxury of your excellent company once again. I will miss you oh so very much. Goodbye and thank you for your excellent (though pointless) I-hate-all-things-new "hate posts". I hope one day you will get over your hatred of new things so that you can move on. I wish you all the best.

Good riddance.

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Imagine being a client with questions like T/H's or Waynes or Prawns
Persistence in gaining answers would have you held in contempt.
Bludgeoned to death with verbal rhetoric.

From what Ive seen there is no way Id be looking into this guy as a paid educator.
Still I suppose your not targetting the sophisticated end of the market.
The average biker understands your commentary clearly.

Poster number 3 for my ignore button.

Trembling Hand said:

No you have not. Not at all. Position size is a simple 1 or 2 line question and you haven't more probably cannot answer it. See Prawns questions.

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If you look at the first page of the thread our friend Bill claims $2,000-5,000 profit per week from a $20,000 starting balance.

Assuming one trade per day, we are talking $400-1,000 profit per trade if you don't count losers. If you count losers then we would be expecting at least $800-2000 profit per trade.

If we also assume Bill Stacy is a gun trader, earning on average $3 for every $1 he risks (a metric exceeding my own performance last year) then you could assume he is on average risking $130-330 per trade at a 100% track record, or more like $260-660 accounting for some losses.

To me, at this point reality must intervene however, since Bill reckons he trades the ASX options, which really limits him to XJO and ASX20 equities at a size that far exceeds any sane risk management (since we also assume Bill is always long/never short options due to his distaste for posting collateral). Especially in consideration of the fact that Bill has been trading options while they were quoted as *1000 size. A $1 priced *1000 option (which all ASX options were until recently) already exceeds all of the above risk assumptions.

sinner said:

If you look at the first page of the thread our friend Bill claims $2,000-5,000 profit per week from a $20,000 starting balance.

Assuming one trade per day, we are talking $400-1,000 profit per trade if you don't count losers. If you count losers then we would be expecting at least $800-2000 profit per trade.

If we also assume Bill Stacy is a gun trader, earning on average $3 for every $1 he risks (a metric exceeding my own performance last year) then you could assume he is on average risking $130-330 per trade at a 100% track record, or more like $260-660 accounting for some losses.

To me, at this point reality must intervene however, since Bill reckons he trades the ASX options, which really limits him to XJO and ASX20 equities at a size that far exceeds any sane risk management (since we also assume Bill is always long/never short options due to his distaste for posting collateral). Especially in consideration of the fact that Bill has been trading options while they were quoted as *1000 size. A $1 priced *1000 option (which all ASX options were until recently) already exceeds all of the above risk assumptions.

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Exactly where I was going. His position size is far far away from reality.

OneDayWealth said:

Sigh...we've been through all this a million times already. Back in round 1 I posted 4 weeks worth of real live trades and it was not posted for all to see - rejected for obvious reasons - it proved I was real and would have embarrassed regular posters. You had your chance and thew it back in my face because it proved I was not a fraud - just a normal guy with winners and losers just like other traders. It had winners, losers, the works. I've been down this road and I will be accused of photoshoping, if I don't post I'll be accused of lying and making this all up (though why I would want to is beyond me). Neither will be true but I will always lose in here so I wonder how many others would take a 100% losing bet and then we'll go several rounds with that conversation again and again and again. Now you come here, mock me and expect me to go through it all over again?

I'll be accused of posting old stats (no matter how real they are) or you'll find something else to hound me about and I really couldn't be bothered. I've already wasted far too much time here already, offered tonnes of proof and answered every stupid inane question designed to trip me up and they have all failed. Why? because I'm real, what I do is real and what I teach is based on real experience to real people...and I've been trading this method for years, at first with Macquarie, then with eTrade then and more recently with Trader dealer.

I've posted heaps and heaps of trades over the years to my members and traded with them for months and months on end - live (after the fact of course so as not to lead the market). I don't have to enter arm wrestle comps or provide more statements than I already have. Look up my deleted-by-mods post history and you'll see that I've already offered up real proof to your mods. Heaps of it in fact. Ask them why they refused to post it forcing me to go round after round answering the same old questions time and time again. I made links available to real statements and everything for everyone to see and my post was deleted. I think they said something about "the details were too personal" or something. I can't really remember to be honest, it was back in 09 I think. But I offered proof and it was rejected and deleted. I wonder why. Actually, I know why.

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I haven't bothered reading all that as i dont see any one line answers to any of the questions i asked. Simple questions should be able to have succinct answers imo. I'll keep waiting.

sinner said:

...(since we also assume Bill is always long/never short options due to his distaste for posting collateral)...

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You surprise me with your assumptions. I go short all the time. In fact I don't care if I go long or short. It's all the same to me. Asumptions...tsk tsk.

Trembling Hand said:

Exactly where I was going. His position size is far far away from reality.

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I thought you were leaving...lol

prawn_86 said:

I haven't bothered reading all that as i dont see any one line answers to any of the questions i asked. Simple questions should be able to have succinct answers imo. I'll keep waiting.

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A mod who couldn't be bothered reading a response. Interesting. Quality move.