Bill Stacy?

[wayneL]

Like I said, try telling that to the poor trader who has to sell their house because the stop losses didn't hold.

Ahhhh the overnight risk ruse. Why do you continue to use this fallacious logic?

Aren't be talking day trading FFS?

 

[nunthewiser]

All I've ever wanted was to show people how to make enough money trading options to leave a job they hate. ?

so i take it you will be providing live entrys/exits/analysis/trade ideas on this fine forum now then in the future?

would you like me to create your own personal thread?

did vicki or others here get a refund? as she/they sounded somewhat annoyed/ripped off by your course.

it great that your here for humanity instead of personal gain and look forward to you helping here so the newbies can benefit instead of getting ripped off on outrageous fees and questionable practises by ppl in the future.

amen

 

[OneDayWealth]

Ahhhh the overnight risk ruse. Why do you continue to use this fallacious logic?

Aren't be talking day trading FFS?

Because it's true as explained to me by several brokers. There was a time when I was considering using CFDs to trade the same signals I use for day trading so I looked into it and asked for the real risks. They were explained to me (about how I was definitely responsible for the entire trade) but when people say to me "what about CFDs?" (just like you just did) I always say "I'm not able to advise you on CFDs - ask your broker and make your own comparisons".

My brokers have all said the same thing and that is what I believe. If it's wrong, fine but then several different brokers have all been wrong in the exact same way. I'm not sure but I know enough to stay well away and to trade with my own money which is what I prefer. If CFDs work better for you that's fine. There are lots of ways to make money on the stock market. Mine is just one of them.

Not sure what your last sentence means - sorry.

 

[sails]

I am confused on this part......isn't quoting minimum margins what you would be looking at from a risk management point of view? If I had a 50c spread and picked up 18c premium, I am risking 32c. Over 10 contracts I am risking $3200 of my $5000 to make $1800.

I traded a NCM bear call spread when it was around $35.90 a few months ago and it shot up to nearly $40 during that months trade. I sold the $36 calls and bought the $36.50 for 10 contracts. I lost my $3200 knowing that's all I was risking. Am I missing something here?

Builder, I think it is far more realistic to work on return on capital because it is the account size that determines how much one is willing to risk in the first place. For example, lets say you have a $100,000 account and you were willing to risk 3.2% ($3,200) with your NCM bear call spread.

You lose 3.2% of your capital if you lose the max risk.
You have a return on capital of 1.8% if you win the max amount.

When spruikers brag about these impressive high percentage winners based on risk, most people immediately think of return on capital and is the reason many of them part with their hard earned cash to "learn" how to get these high percentages for their account. However, no one in their right mind will risk their entire account on one trade - so it makes these returns based on risk alone well removed from reality.

 

[SmellyTerror]

Maybe I can translate.

Mr Stacy – assume that I assume that you’re totally honest and up front.

You must nevertheless understand that the world contains a large number of shonks.

These shonks can suck in investors by posting fake results.

The only way we can tell the difference between shonks and legitimate folk (like you) is for trades to be posted LIVE – that is, post your entry pretty much the moment it happens and – crucially – before you exit. Post your exit the moment it happens too.

Obviously difficult for very short-term trading, but do-able – particularly if you can post a stop order before it’s hit, or a brief summary of what you’re going to do immediately before it happens. Failing that, you can always offer to talk someone here through some trades as they happen over Skype or something else that’s live.

Surely you can see it’s reasonable that people here are wary of shocks. Even if you’re NOT one, they exist, and we have one and only one way to tell the difference: live trades.

So… can you give us some live trades?

 

[OneDayWealth]

so i take it you will be providing live entrys/exits/analysis/trade ideas on this fine forum now then in the future?

No, why would I?

did vicki or others here get a refund? as she/they sounded somewhat annoyed/ripped off by your course.

She was not ripped off at all. I was not an owner when all that happened anyway. I think (without knowing the exact dates) I was doing my own thing by then. But I'm pretty sure no course in the world will guarantee that you will not lose money if you ignore all the advice...lol

it great that your here for humanity instead of personal gain and look forward to you helping here so the newbies can benefit instead of getting ripped off on outrageous fees and questionable practises by ppl in the future.

amen

I'll help if people are civil to me. Sure.

 

[prawn_86]

LMAO.

This thread has greatly brightened up my Sunday arvo. Thanks to all the participants.

I guess it will keep going until someone either 'Puts up, or shuts up' to use an old phrase.

 

[wayneL]

Because it's true as explained to me by several brokers. There was a time when I was considering using CFDs to trade the same signals I use for day trading so I looked into it and asked for the real risks. They were explained to me (about how I was definitely responsible for the entire trade) but when people say to me "what about CFDs?" (just like you just did) I always say "I'm not able to advise you on CFDs - ask your broker and make your own comparisons".

My brokers have all said the same thing and that is what I believe. If it's wrong, fine but then several different brokers have all been wrong in the exact same way. I'm not sure but I know enough to stay well away and to trade with my own money which is what I prefer. If CFDs work better for you that's fine. There are lots of ways to make money on the stock market. Mine is just one of them.

Not sure what your last sentence means - sorry.

If you don't understand that you are selling a daytrading system, then I don't quite know where to go next with you.

 

[Trembling Hand]

Nope. You got it in one.

Yep you got it. Now you can sell to the masses.

I am confused on this part......isn't quoting minimum margins what you would be looking at from a risk management point of view? If I had a 50c spread and picked up 18c premium, I am risking 32c. Over 10 contracts I am risking $3200 of my $5000 to make $1800.

Its a hideous sneaking grubby little game that snake oilers play thou isn't it?
They quote, to use your example, a return of 56% ($1800 profit from $3200 traded). What that does is suck in all the newbies with low capital base dreaming of telling the boss to stick it because they are off to trade full time on $20,000 capital.

When the real truth is a full time trader would need somewhere around the $150,000 capital(bog standard money management 2% max loss stuff . And as I have argued many times a day trader should be around 1.0% to 0.5% loss per trade max).

If I have $100,000 in my account as a full time futures day trader and make one trade where I profit $1000 yet the broker only requires $5000 margin whats my return on that single trade? 20%?(return on margin) or 1%? (return on capital).

Snake oilers always quote the 20%. Full time traders who have been in the biz always quote the 1% because they know its impossible to live the dream on minimum margin. Scamers sell the dream on minimum margin.

EDIT<> LOL Or see Sails reply.

 

[nunthewiser]

Many times lately, I had someone try to buy the course off me and I talked them out of giving me thousands for personal instruction in options day trading and into a $25 internet product instead of which I make only one single dollar profit. All I've ever wanted was to show people how to make enough money trading options to leave a job they hate. I've never ripped anyone off or had any intentions of anything other than to share my knowledge.

This is what YOU wrote

so i take it you will be providing live entrys/exits/analysis/trade ideas on this fine forum now then in the future?

would you like me to create your own personal thread?

.

it great that your here for humanity instead of personal gain and look forward to you helping here so the newbies can benefit instead of getting ripped off on outrageous fees and questionable practises by ppl in the future.

amen

No, why would I?







.

Because of this

All I've ever wanted was to show people how to make enough money trading options to leave a job they hate. I've never ripped anyone off or had any intentions of anything other than to share my knowledge

This brings me back to my original post where you called me vomit ( or along them lines) where i stated i noticed how many contradictions appeared everytime you posted ....

you really are good at this smokescreen game dude.

now im totally confused , are you here to help or not?

or have you changed you mind again?

 

[builder2818]

Yep you got it. quote



Its a hideous sneaking grubby little game that snake oilers play thou isn't it?
They quote, to use your example, a return of 56% ($1800 profit from $3200 traded). What that does is suck in all the newbies with low capital base dreaming of telling the boss to stick it because they are off to trade full time on $20,000 capital.

When the real truth is a full time trader would need somewhere around the $150,000 capital(bog standard money management 2% max loss stuff . And as I have argued many times a day trader should be around 1.0% to 0.5% loss per trade max).

If I have $100,000 in my account as a full time futures day trader and make one trade where I profit $1000 yet the broker only requires $5000 margin whats my return on that single trade? 20%?(return on margin) or 1%? (return on capital).

Snake oilers always quote the 20%. Full time traders who have been in the biz always quote the 1% because they know its impossible to live the dream on minimum margin. Scamers sell the dream on minimum margin.

EDIT<> LOL Or see Sails reply.

Thanks TH, I know now what you mean. The snake oil salesman wouldn't be quoting my loss on that trade then - a whopping 64% loss on my trade if you qoute it the same way they do for their "winning" trades.

 

[OneDayWealth]

Maybe I can translate.

Mr Stacy – assume that I assume that you’re totally honest and up front.

You must nevertheless understand that the world contains a large number of shonks.

These shonks can suck in investors by posting fake results.

The only way we can tell the difference between shonks and legitimate folk (like you) is for trades to be posted LIVE – that is, post your entry pretty much the moment it happens and – crucially – before you exit. Post your exit the moment it happens too.

Obviously difficult for very short-term trading, but do-able – particularly if you can post a stop order before it’s hit, or a brief summary of what you’re going to do immediately before it happens. Failing that, you can always offer to talk someone here through some trades as they happen over Skype or something else that’s live.

Surely you can see it’s reasonable that people here are wary of shocks. Even if you’re NOT one, they exist, and we have one and only one way to tell the difference: live trades.

So… can you give us some live trades?

Sorry but no and for reasons you have outlined. There is no time to stop and post and I don't use "stops" I just trade what I see and sometimes that requires crack reflexes. I will not even answer the phone while trading (big mistake from new traders is getting distracted while trading) and besides I'm not trying to sell my course to you guys. I'm just here defending my honour.

But it's true, there are shonks out there which is kind of the reason why I exist as an educator. I suffered as well by (not shonky but) mostly incomplete courses but I get something from them all and they all added up to create my "feelings" which I use to trade. I started to teach and sell my information so that new people would not suffer insane losses for no good reason. A stock suddenly going against me is sometimes unavoidable but making a silly or stupid avoidable mistake is something all together different and that's my buzz. Making sure people know what they are doing and how to do it.

But I have nothing to prove here. Options move daily - anyone can tell you that. Buying is simple, selling is simple. The whole method/strategy is simple. All that's left is to time it correctly and that is pretty hard to teach though I do offer as many insights into what patterns I like as I can to my members. My exact layouts and procedures are also very helpful so I go through those in amazing detail that has been commended many times. Comments like "At last! Someone who tells us exactly how to do something" are very common - I'm sorry to say.

The trades I post are real trades documented with real facts, if people don't believe facts (that can be verified) then there's not much I can do and I'd prefer to sit back and watch foxtel or work on my cars to be frank. I had to prove myself when I started but my record stands strong and has done for many years which is why I get so offended when people call me a crook. I'm not a crook, I'm just trying to help people by providing real help that will be useful to make real money.

If there's a way we can make thousands of dollars a week without risking any money or going to a job I would love to hear it.

 

[sails]

Thanks TH, I know now what you mean. The snake oil salesman wouldn't be quoting my loss on that trade then - a whopping 64% loss on my trade if you qoute it the same way they do for their "winning" trades.

Yep, now you've really got it...

 

[OneDayWealth]

...
When the real truth is a full time trader would need somewhere around the $150,000 capital...

Bull. That's the sort of rubbish that keeps people believing the crap that you need so much money to day trade and kills people's dreams for no good reason. Maybe if you are buying shares which I would never do.

I have proven dozens and dozens of times over many years that you can make heaps day trading options and you don't need anywhere NEAR 100k. I know that upsets a few people but there's not much I can do about it. The truth is the truth.

And please stop lumping me in with snake oil salesmen! I teach a real skill that works and I'm damn proud of it. If you have a hard time believing that then fine you have your own problems to deal with but that's not me.

 

[Trembling Hand]

Bull. That's the sort of rubbish that keeps people believing the crap that you need so much money to day trade. Maybe if you are buying shares which I would never do.

I have proven dozens and dozens of times over many years that you can make heaps day trading options and you don't need anywhere NEAR 100k. I know that upsets a few people but there's not much I can do about it. The truth is the truth.

And please stop lumping me in with snake oil salesmen! I teach a real skill that works and I'm damn proud of it. If you have a hard time believing that then fine you have your own problems to deal with but that's not me.

Whats the average loss per trade in dollar terms your clients would take on a $20,000 account. And whats a reasonable win rate buddy?

 

[prawn_86]

Ok then Bill, if you wont post your live trades how about this:

Give one member here your course for free and see if they can emulate your 'results'

This thread is not going to go away until you either prove you can do what you say (which you have not done, all talk no action so far), or you simply stop responding.

 

[nunthewiser]

I have proven dozens and dozens of times over many years that you can make heaps day trading options and you don't need anywhere NEAR 100k. .

Actually you have not proven anything yet as the hindsight "statements"provided can easily be doctored as pointed out by some sensible fellow earlier in this thread.

now why not prove it as requested by posting trades here on a live basis because until such time that happens my belief is that there maybe a SCAM happening and we all should be aware of these internet snake oil scam artists.

its the simplest and easiest way to show the world you got the goods

 

[nunthewiser]

Could you please answer post 190 as i am still confused on the actual sincerity of your prescense here

Thanks in advance

 

[sails]

...If there's a way we can make thousands of dollars a week without risking any money or going to a job I would love to hear it.

I think you've found it - charge a few grand per student...

Most of us here would have trouble sleeping at night though.

You accused me of being cynical earlier today. If being cynical helps a newbie with limited capital look more closely at what they are getting into instead of being baited with impressive returns based only on risk, they any "cynicism" has done it's job.

While generally self taught in the business of options, I have been caught with the snake oil salesmen and parted with a few $K for a supposed options education some years ago - which actually amounted to no more than option kindergarten, IMO. I have found that baiting people with "secrets" and high percentage returns based on risk is common in this line of business.

 

[OneDayWealth]

Whats the average loss in dollar terms your clients would take on a $20,000 account. And whats a reasonable win rate buddy?

Not sure. Never measured the average loss. I don't collect and analyse everyone's trades. I have better things to do with my time.

Win/loss rates only apply and are relevant when the losses and wins are all the exact same amount. By that I mean that every win is the same size and every loss is the same size. Profits and losses vary wildly depending on the discipline of the trade (as I'm sure you know).

I can tell you though that I expect a disciplined and practiced options day trader to make 5-10% 2 or 3 times a week. Much more if they are already an expert technical analyst.

I prefer that people take no more than 10% loss ever and to pull out no matter what you think a trade is going to do if you have lost 15% or more. I know that's much shorter than most option strategies but there is no way a 30% loss (what FFI and many others teach) could be used with this method.

I even go so far as to suggest that unless a trade takes off immediately (or within 10 minutes) you should exit. I also suggest that you let all profits run (as usual) to help build as much of a buffer as possible. The best way to trade is not with saved or borrowed money but with profits so I suggest no profits be taken (spent) until you have a buffer of at least the max preferred loss and preferably a full doubled bank and then only trade the ASX money and put your own away back in the bank.