Ben Cousins - what action should the AFL take?

hangseng said:

Not only "premature" but completely biassed and void of fact to support the bias. Pure speculative rubbish, based on subjective views and journalistic hype completely void of factual evidence. As the saying goes journo's never let the truth get in the way of a good story (to sell papers).

As Tom Percy has recently stated "if I was Ben I would be looking at my (legal) options with the WCE"

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So... he hasn't been in drug rehab?

If Ben Cousins is suffering from a mental illness, then given his public behaviours it does mean that his illness is not being well managed. So, this may mean his medical people are not able to medicate him appropriately, or Ben himself is non compliant with his medication. Whatever the cause (if that is what his problem is) he still presents a risk to his own health, and those of the people around him, and the general public - by driving a car in a manner of concern and possibly either over/under medicated, and perhaps having ingested other detrimental substances. By refusing the assessment no-one will ever know, but nor can he rightfully say he is innocent, either.

I cant exactly see where you come to the conclusion that he has demonstrated honesty patto. Even his 'confession' was deliberately worded to avoid using outright statements of what he had done; he ran away from a previous RBt and refused this assessment. Crikeys, honest?

Which begs the question, at what stage do people who present with a mental illness which isnt/cant be managed, need some other forms of treatment, and how much can their condition excuse their behaviour.

Does a woman who is suffering from PND have a rightful excuse to harm her child? Does a person with a mental illness (eg manic depressive) have a right to drive a car when their manic episodes are not controlled? Probably another thread, but given the increase in the number of 'confessions' of depression etc, (or maybe this is just reported more often now) I am wondering where this all ends with regard to social and criminal accountability. One way of clearing the gaols I guess - (I am not saying that people with a mental illness should end up in gaol, but that criminals can use the depression/manic syndrome as an excuse for committing crime.)

With regard to the WCE contract, we do not know what stipulations there were in place in his contract. It would appear that, given his recent break with club, he has broken some of the conditions of his contract with the WCE so they would have no concerns for legal action. Whether or not he been convicted of any offence is entirely irrelevant. One of our cricketers in SA was suspended for being overweight! Last time I looked, that wasn't a crime!

hangseng said:

Not only "premature" but completely biassed and void of fact to support the bias. Pure speculative rubbish, based on subjective views and journalistic hype completely void of factual evidence. As the saying goes journo's never let the truth get in the way of a good story (to sell papers).

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I guess others might argue that he's "got form", and there's a difference between "unfounded" speculation, and speculation "on form". - that difference also affects severity of sentence if he's guilty of course.

I mean if you heard that some blonde or brunette for that matter claimed to have had a string of suggestive text messages from Shane Warne ... would you dismiss it

Prospector has made some very relevant points.

I heard a radio interview a couple of days ago with Andrew Johns who has now written a book about his mental illness which he says was the cause of his drug taking. You didn't consider getting appropriate medical help for the illness, Andrew??? So now he will add to his existing wealth with the profits of a book which he says "tells the full story of his battle with mental illness".

If the mental illness does exist, then his illegal drug use hardly constitutes appropriate medication.

Given the undiscerning admiration which is so apparent for these football stars, I don't doubt the book will sell like the proverbial hot cakes and the fans will continue saying "poor Joey", just as they are saying "Poor Ben".
Now when will Ben's book be coming out?

2020hindsight said:

I guess others might argue that he's "got form", and there's a difference between "unfounded" speculation, and speculation "on form". - that difference also affects severity of sentence if he's guilty of course.

I mean if you heard that some blonde or brunette for that matter claimed to have had a string of suggestive text messages from Shane Warne ... would you dismiss it

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The fact remains his has not been charged with anything and has not been found guilty of anything. Severity of sentence is not even a moot point as there is no charge and therefore there is no sentence.

This is simply a kangaroo court and kicking someone while they are down. How very Australian, our forefathers who fought for this country would be so proud (NOT).

hangseng said:

The fact remains his has not been charged with anything and has not been found guilty of anything. Severity of sentence is not even a moot point as there is no charge and therefore there is no sentence.

This is simply a kangaroo court and kicking someone while they are down. How very Australian, our forefathers who fought for this country would be so proud (NOT).

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Yeah your right hangseng, he hasn't done anythiing wrong so we should all just keep turning a blind eye like the eagles have done for years. He deserves our understanding and respect (NOT).

He has only got himself to blame.

hangseng said:

THow very Australian, our forefathers who fought for this country would be so proud (NOT).

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Why do you assume they would be proud of a person who is doing himself harm; when our forefathers (assuming of course that most here are WASP) did everything they could to stay alive and valued their lives and those around them?

My grandfather (my forefather) fought in WWI and he valued LIFE so much that he wouldnt even kill a mouse when he got back. But the war damaged his heart so much that he was sick for the rest of his life and died in his forties. Now he and countless other veterans had every reason to be depressed, suicidal or whatever, but, it just didnt happen.

Kicking him when he is down? Well, there are so many others who are truly down because life has dealt them some pretty filthy stuff, who are more deserving of our concern, than someone who has been raised as a gifted sportperson, paid mega dollars for the privilege and then, well, whatever it is that he is doing to himself. If he really valued his life he would be getting specialist psychiatric help; not flitting across to the US to be doing goodness knows what, but enough to get him to ER for a few days and have a 'blonde' calling 911 telling them that 'a 29 year old' had been doing cocaine for 5 days and was basically unconscious.

hangseng said:

How very Australian, our forefathers who fought for this country would be so proud (NOT).

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That's an interesting viewpoint Hang Sang. Thankyou for that.

I always thought our forefathers stood for those people who represented spirit, cooperation under adversity, unity, fellowship, courage and hardwork.

But all this time our forefathers ACTUALLY stood for people who are arrogant, cocky, insolent, swollen-headed, egotistical, supercilious, self-indulgent fraudsters who refuse to be team players or take responsibility for their actions.

At ASF I am always learning something new. Keep up your posts everyone.

Duckman

Duckman#72 said:

That's an interesting viewpoint Hang Sang. Thankyou for that.

I always thought our forefathers stood for those people who represented spirit, cooperation under adversity, unity, fellowship, courage and hardwork.

But all this time our forefathers ACTUALLY stood for people who are arrogant, cocky, insolent, swollen-headed, egotistical, supercilious, self-indulgent fraudsters who refuse to be team players or take responsibility for their actions.

At ASF I am always learning something new. Keep up your posts everyone.

Duckman

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Obviously reading and comprehension remains an inherent problem.

The point being made is nothing to do with Ben' condition, it is the people kicking someone while they are down and a denial of natural justice.

What was fought for is to uphold our basic rights of justice and freedom (yes and everything in Duckman' 2nd paragraph). Our forefathers also completely frowned on the likes of people kicking someone when they were down, as I do. This is something seemingly accepted in todays society.

Duckman your twist on things is your view of what I stated, not what I stated nor implied.

Yes by all means keep putting the boots in people, you are doing it so well.

hangseng said:

Obviously reading and comprehension remains an inherent problem.

The point being made is nothing to do with Ben' condition, it is the people kicking someone while they are down and a denial of natural justice.

What was fought for is to uphold our basic rights of justice and freedom (yes and everything in Duckman' 2nd paragraph). Our forefathers also completely frowned on the likes of people kicking someone when they were down, as I do. This is something seemingly accepted in todays society.

Duckman your twist on things is your view of what I stated, not what I stated nor implied.

Yes by all means keep putting the boots in people, you are doing it so well.

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I;m not kicking him when he's down I'm kicking him when he's going on a 5 day bender in LA

kgee said:

I;m not kicking him when he's down I'm kicking him when he's going on a 5 day bender in LA

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You obviously have some factual evidence of that, perhaps you would like to share this information. Please don't give me the 'I read it in the paper' or 'saw it on the news'.

If you actually really knew what was going on you wouldn't be making such a statement.

Oh and while we are at it why is it that the AFL never brought Geelong, Hawthorn or Carlton to account as they are doing with the WCE? Seems the big V is quite selective in dishing out the hard line.

hangseng said:

If you actually really knew what was going on you wouldn't be making such a statement.

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Then what is actually going on?

chops_a_must said:

Then what is actually going on?

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Is it actually possible that someone really cares?

Hang Seng, do you spend as much time and energy worrying about and defending all the addicts who are not football stars, who haven't received any help already, who don't earn huge salaries? You know the ones I mean. They probably had a background of abuse, minimal education, no social standing and are currently homeless.

hangseng said:

Obviously reading and comprehension remains an inherent problem.

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No - it is not me that has the reading and comprehension problem Hang Seng.

There are none so blind than those that will not see.

You still don't get it do you??!!!

Our forefathers never fought for a legal system that protected the rich. A legal system that protected those that could afford a QC. A legal system that protected those that were fortunate enough to escape reprimand through legal loopholes. Indeed it could be argued that it was this type of person our forefathers despised.

For you to stand up with your hand on your heart and argue that Ben Cousins has been a victim of the legal system and trial by media is to dishonour all those people who have been truly aggrieved and have not experienced natural justice. Why don't you concentrate your passion to those whom really need it - not a spoilt drug addict that refuses to be helped.

If Ben (and his rights) are in the Blue corner - I'm damn sure our forefathers would be in the Red Corner.

Julia said:

Is it actually possible that someone really cares?

Hang Seng, do you spend as much time and energy worrying about and defending all the addicts who are not football stars, who haven't received any help already, who don't earn huge salaries? You know the ones I mean. They probably had a background of abuse, minimal education, no social standing and are currently homeless.

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Yes, and someone very close. Unfortunately also suffering severe depression, but that isn't sexy enough for public discussion. I have also never taken drugs but I unfortunately have a few close to me that have.

Julia I regard myself as now being one of the 'lucky' in life, I don't worry about much at all anymore. I have suffered in my own way physically, mentally and financially through my life and have been 'lucky' enough to have come out the other side a much stronger and a better person. I believe everyone in life deserves the compassion and support we are all capable of giving, except where they choose to go out of their way to harm others.

Ben is clearly a young man sorting out a lot in his life at present and he has harmed nobody but himself (something I know only too well). He has the most wonderful parents, mates and support group. He will get through this despite the media rubbish, journalists and public carrying on like a pack of wild dogs.

People here have displayed they have no idea at all what is happening with Ben, or others in this country, suffering one of societies most hurtful and soul destroying illnesses that has no boundaries of age, education, intelligence, sex or social standing.

This whole subject is far more complex than any of the simple, subjective and at times ignorant views and comments put forward here.

Duckman#72 said:

No - it is not me that has the reading and comprehension problem Hang Seng.

There are none so blind than those that will not see.

You still don't get it do you??!!!

Our forefathers never fought for a legal system that protected the rich. A legal system that protected those that could afford a QC. A legal system that protected those that were fortunate enough to escape reprimand through legal loopholes. Indeed it could be argued that it was this type of person our forefathers despised.

For you to stand up with your hand on your heart and argue that Ben Cousins has been a victim of the legal system and trial by media is to dishonour all those people who have been truly aggrieved and have not experienced natural justice. Why don't you concentrate your passion to those whom really need it - not a spoilt drug addict that refuses to be helped.

If Ben (and his rights) are in the Blue corner - I'm damn sure our forefathers would be in the Red Corner.

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I see very clearly and have done for some time.

You have distorted this considerably and have not even touched on my point at all. I have never stated "Cousins has been a victim of the legal system".

As for this, "spoilt drug addict", you really have no idea what is going on.

hangseng said:

I see very clearly and have done for some time.

You have distorted this considerably and have not even touched on my point at all. I have never stated "Cousins has been a victim of the legal system".

As for this, "spoilt drug addict", you really have no idea what is going on.

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Look "Hang Seng" - stop spending your time on ASF and go and attend to your son.

He clearly needs help.

I agree with duckman, Cousins is a total loser. I live in Melbourne and I have seen what these AFL player get up to. Get real, if you do the crime pay the fine.

"Grow up and start being a man" is something these "sporting" heros should do.

All of us mere mortals have had to..

hangseng said:

You obviously have some factual evidence of that, perhaps you would like to share this information. Please don't give me the 'I read it in the paper' or 'saw it on the news'.

If you actually really knew what was going on you wouldn't be making such a statement.

.

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Well when evidence comes to the contrary I will glady retract my statements and revise my opinions . Yes I am ignorant...yet you seem to imply that you know whats going on, so why not enlighten me?

"Ben, or others in this country, suffering one of societies most hurtful and soul destroying illnesses that has no boundaries of age, education, intelligence, sex or social standing."

We're talking about drug addiction right? or are you alluding to somthing else?

Duckman#72 said:

Look "Hang Seng" - stop spending your time on ASF and go and attend to your son.

He clearly needs help.

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My son is fine, in fact outstanding as is my daughter. Both are non drug takers, high achievers and have never been cause for serious concern. You still clearly have no idea whatsoever Duckman, but keep guessing.

So Hood you live in Melbourne. "I live in Melbourne and I have seen what these AFL player get up to. Get real, if you do the crime pay the fine." Why then aren't these "AFL player" held accountable? Surely the AFL and the Victorian people are aware of this (as you are) and wouldn't be turning a blind eye if a crime is being committed now would they?

The truth will come out in time, it is not for me to say. Though I am sure some will just keep guessing and placing subjective false statements here. Can't let a good story get in the way now can we?

So back to Hood, who are the "AFL player" in Melbourne you refer to?