Ben Cousins - what action should the AFL take?

this one addressed to Mint Man - (since you started the thread m8 )
but this sort of poll is sooo similar to what Channel 9 etc so - they have these sorts of polls all the flaming time. sheesh.

Media Watch rips em to shreads of course.

Seems to reinforce Hangseng's point that you can't play judge until "all the evidence is in"

I have to admit I started off highly suspicious , and I thought maybe Mainwaring's recent death was a factor - why else did they ambush "him" (and not someone else) I kept asking myself -

whatever - at the end of the day, he seems to be able to look the world in the eye, - and by the time his lawyers finish with the police, he'll be even richer.

PS and the saddest thing is that we all imitate the media these days - the coffee urn conversations etc etc

What a magnificent victory for Hang Seng, Explod and most importantly for Ben himself.

Civil libertarians around Australia can charge their glasses and toast to the success of the justice system and its dogged protection of the innocent.

It is all very well to see clearly with the benefit of hindsight - but since relocating Ben in the US, it is obvious that he DOES NOT have a drug problem. What were the police thinking!!!

And his decision not to undertake a drug test was completely understandable considering that the police officer in question asked ANOTHER officer to perform it. Hell!!!! Everyone knows that THAT protocol went out with the legislation changes 3 days earlier.

No this has been a victory of the highest order. We can all sleep easier in the knowledge that the hard working WA Police force, who we rely on to serve and protect us have been embarrassed by protocol and bureaucracy.

But more significantly - isn't it great for Ben that once again those in authority have turned the other way and effectively said "Do what you like".

As the legal fraternity sip their Champers, eat their smoked salmon and caviar parcels, and congratulate each other I hope they think about who they've really helped. Hang on..........that's the phone............it's from LA (time to get to work QC's, on who signed certain documents and if events took place in the right order.) God forbid that he actually needs real help.

Great post, Duckman.

Remove him from the Game and from the public eye ASAP. Whether he's meant to or not, Counsins has done, His family, The Eagles, the AFL and his fellow players a massive injustice. He's got massive amounts of support and spat in the faces of those that gave that support.

What about the hundreds of fellow players who do the right thing. The sport that they love has been tainted by the actions of one selfish person. And the thousands of supporters who stood by him only to see him go on a Coke Binge.

The sooner he's away from football and the public eye the sooner he can get on with his recovery. If he so chooses. I don't think he should, or will ever play AFL again.

I do believe he should be given the opportunity to rebuild his life but the Eagles should no longer have to foot the bill, both financially and publicly.

My 2c

tronic72 said:

Remove him from the Game and from the public eye ASAP. Whether he's meant to or not, Counsins has done, His family, The Eagles, the AFL and his fellow players a massive injustice. He's got massive amounts of support and spat in the faces of those that gave that support.

What about the hundreds of fellow players who do the right thing. The sport that they love has been tainted by the actions of one selfish person. And the thousands of supporters who stood by him only to see him go on a Coke Binge.

The sooner he's away from football and the public eye the sooner he can get on with his recovery. If he so chooses. I don't think he should, or will ever play AFL again.

I do believe he should be given the opportunity to rebuild his life but the Eagles should no longer have to foot the bill, both financially and publicly.

My 2c

Click to expand...

Well said!

junkies don't deserve any respect I concede - unless they reform I guess (then again nor do smokers or drunks)
- and he admits to having had problems in his self control in regards to drugs
- just that the subsequent arrests etc appear to be have been a witch-hunt of some sort.

- pretty hard for him to have a fair go with the "trial by media" he was put through.

Maybe he'll end up playing "offensive kicker" for a GridIron team m8

And he has now $2000 from the Police to help in his recovery.

It gets back to the 'Spirit of the Law' versus the 'Letter of the Law'.

This case has broken the spirit of the law; and Lawyers win by concentrating on the latter. Unfortunately the Police have to know everything, about everything; Lawyers can concentrate on the details of each case as it happens. The Police and their limited resources dont stand a chance against Lawyers who have the luxury of investing time - theirs and their research fellows (and consequently lots of their clients $$$$) in trying to discredit the cases they represent. The Police make one procedural mistake and the whole case gets dropped. Is this a victory for justice? Well, it is a victory for process I guess.

Gets back to the old lemony - there are many things in life you can get away with, (if you are rich enough to afford a good lawyer) but in the end it is morals and values that make the difference.

Can we forget for a minute that this person ever played football. Imagine he is the average Joe Blow whom you know has avoided being breath tested by running away; has refused a driver assessment test for unknown reasons; and for numerous other issues that would never have made the media if he is Joe Blow. Let's say he is your next door neighbour; you don't really like him, you just get that uncomfortable feeling when he is around, you think he is snorting coke or doing some kind of drugs; he seems out of it sometimes when you speak to him; you see him driving in the morning looking rather unsteady on his feet; you have seen him mixing with bikie types; you wouldn't want him dating your daughter. So he gets picked up one morning, driving badly at 10am in the morning, and you think, at last, he will stop driving down your street risking the safety of your family. But wait, the Police Officer made a mistake when he was arrested, his sergeant wanted to do the assessment instead of the officer who arrested him, and so he gets off. Your teenage son watches all this, thinks well, he can get away with it, why can't I. So he tries the same thing. Great message eh?

Of course, as HangSeng argues, everyone has the presumption of innocence until proven guilty. But when there is a litany of transgressions, and the charges are dropped merely because of what was a minor error in process, (seriously, why was this process made so complex by the legislators - after all, any Police Office can conduct a Breath test at any time) is that where we really want to go?

Duckman#72 said:

What a magnificent victory for Hang Seng, Explod and most importantly for Ben himself.

Civil libertarians around Australia can charge their glasses and toast to the success of the justice system and its dogged protection of the innocent.

It is all very well to see clearly with the benefit of hindsight - but since relocating Ben in the US, it is obvious that he DOES NOT have a drug problem. What were the police thinking!!!

And his decision not to undertake a drug test was completely understandable considering that the police officer in question asked ANOTHER officer to perform it. Hell!!!! Everyone knows that THAT protocol went out with the legislation changes 3 days earlier.

No this has been a victory of the highest order. We can all sleep easier in the knowledge that the hard working WA Police force, who we rely on to serve and protect us have been embarrassed by protocol and bureaucracy.

But more significantly - isn't it great for Ben that once again those in authority have turned the other way and effectively said "Do what you like".

As the legal fraternity sip their Champers, eat their smoked salmon and caviar parcels, and congratulate each other I hope they think about who they've really helped. Hang on..........that's the phone............it's from LA (time to get to work QC's, on who signed certain documents and if events took place in the right order.) God forbid that he actually needs real help.

Click to expand...

Um yeah..... I have no Idea what you just said.

Why weren't the AFL waiting for him at the airport when he landed back in oz to ask him for an off season drug test?

Stan 101 said:

Why weren't the AFL waiting for him at the airport when he landed back in oz to ask him for an off season drug test?

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They aren't allowed to at this time of the year. What a joke huh?

still stand by everything I've said...if theres one concession I give to ben it's a little question of why don't we get so upset when rockstars or moviestars have transggressions concerning drugs.....it's a bit of a double standard...
but even saying that I still think he has a lot to account for

This is my take on "recreational" drugs in sport such as football. They are employed under contract to be the BEST athlete they can possibly be. Let's forget all about the moral issues here and look purely at the habit..
Player A has a few grams of blow over the weekend after a friday night game and turns up for training on monday, in a less than primed condition. They cannot train to their potential because they are still a little twitchy, irritable and tired. As a result, set plays could not be perfected. This affects the team as a whole.

Player does a couple of lines on wednsday night with a few mates and turns up for the game again less that perfect condition. Even if that player is at 98% of what he could have been had he not taken the drugs, they are not producing what they are being paid for..


Who of all the business owners reading this post would put up with an employee turning up for work on a regular basis not fit for work? This doesn't need to be drunk / stoned per se, but clearly suffering from the night before. Maybe even a clear lack of sleep...


Cheers,

Stan 101 said:

Player A has a few grams of blow over the weekend after a friday night game and turns up for training on monday, in a less than primed condition. They cannot train to their potential because they are still a little twitchy, irritable and tired. As a result, set plays could not be perfected. This affects the team as a whole.

Player does a couple of lines on wednsday night with a few mates and turns up for the game again less that perfect condition. Even if that player is at 98% of what he could have been had he not taken the drugs, they are not producing what they are being paid for..

Click to expand...

The problem is, cocaine and amphetamines are performance enhancing drugs.

kgee said:

it's a little question of why don't we get so upset when rockstars or moviestars have transggressions concerning drugs.....it's a bit of a double standard...

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It's only a double standard if we think that it is Ok for rock stars to do it. Who thinks it is? Not me!

Prospector said:

It's only a double standard if we think that it is Ok for rock stars to do it. Who thinks it is? Not me!

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We mightn't think its ok ....but we don't kick up such a fuss about it

chops_a_must said:

The problem is, cocaine and amphetamines are performance enhancing drugs.

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Have to beg to differ there.. Short term use may give the impression of elevated stamina. A person who's just snorted a line of whizz might have a mind running in overdrive, but their clarity of thought?

How many people would be performance enhanced after coming down from an amphetamine buzz for the last 24 hours or more without sleep...?

As I have posted here before...I say Media AFL(VFL) leave him alone
...Ben has been cleared of all charges....Yah!!!
Ben has been the whipping boy for W.A.!!!!!!!!!!
What annoys me is that Ben Cousins, Gardiner, Jonathan Hay, Kerr are
the first group of boys to go through footy solely playing football - not
working....they are totally controlled by the Clubs....they are told what
to do, where to go, etc. the decisions are made for them....then when
something does not plan they are sacked.....de-listed.....These guys are
luck most lads that go out and party their exposed to drugs, peer pressure,low self esteem....but it is their choice....not right....but
I feel that they make this decision and own it!!! There is soooooo
much pressure on these guys....then they are dropped like sh@t....
Most manage drug use very well...Dr's., lawyers, professionals, average Jo Blows but a % become dependent. Ben needs support, empathy and he is trying to resolve his personal issues.
I would say Ben and his family which I do not know personally but
have been told by other that do....are the most gentle, caring, loving
people/parents you could ever meet.
We need to help Ben and the thousands like him get back on track and do what he does best....PLAYING FOOTY.... Good Luck Ben!

And for all you that say you have never taken drugs well.........
what a load of cr@p....
If you say you've never had Alcohol, coffee/tea, sudafed, etc.
Well, maybe I would believe you.....Cigarettes!!!
We mustn't judge..........

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=224169&highlight=premiership#post224169

whatever
just messing around with words - and hypotheticals

patto190366 said:

As I have posted here before...I say Media AFL(VFL) leave him alone
...Ben has been cleared of all charges....Yah!!!
Ben has been the whipping boy for W.A.!!!!!!!!!!
What annoys me is that Ben Cousins, Gardiner, Jonathan Hay, Kerr are
the first group of boys to go through footy solely playing football - not
working....they are totally controlled by the Clubs....they are told what
to do, where to go, etc. the decisions are made for them....then when
something does not plan they are sacked.....de-listed.....These guys are
luck most lads that go out and party their exposed to drugs, peer pressure,low self esteem....but it is their choice....not right....but
I feel that they make this decision and own it!!! There is soooooo
much pressure on these guys....then they are dropped like sh@t....
Most manage drug use very well...Dr's., lawyers, professionals, average Jo Blows but a % become dependent. Ben needs support, empathy and he is trying to resolve his personal issues.
I would say Ben and his family which I do not know personally but
have been told by other that do....are the most gentle, caring, loving
people/parents you could ever meet.
We need to help Ben and the thousands like him get back on track and do what he does best....PLAYING FOOTY.... Good Luck Ben!

Click to expand...

Well done Patto, you have renewed my faith in human nature. Sadly lacking on this thread, unfortunately openly displaying what is wrong with society today.