BCS - BrisConnections Unit Trusts

Trevor_S · 13 March 2009

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

Joe Blow said:
Every post is stamped with the IP address of the author of that post,

and if you post from a public area ? I see lots of people in the library at both the libraries computers and using their notebooks plugged into an ethernet port on the libraries internet connection or from Maccas free Wi Fi etc etc

I guess in that instance it would be anonymous unless you had set up your account from home (as per below) and then proceeded to post from a public area.

Joe Blow said:
Also, IP addresses are recorded at registration.

Even then, if you are in an occupancy with multiple others behind a router using NAT ? eg student shared accommodation or a friend that shares an ADSL2+ connection using 802.1 with two other houses that are neighbors etc

Joe Blow · 13 March 2009

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

Trevor_S said:
and if you post from a public area ? I see lots of people in the library at both the libraries computers and using their notebooks plugged into an ethernet port on the libraries internet connection or from Maccas free Wi Fi etc etc

I guess in that instance it would be anonymous unless you had set up your account from home (as per below) and then proceeded to post from a public area.

Even then, if you are in an occupancy with multiple others behind a router using NAT ? eg student shared accommodation or a friend that shares an ADSL2+ connection using 802.1 with two other houses that are neighbors etc

Hi Trevor,

I suppose if someone was determined enough they could run from library to internet cafe posting on ASF but in reality most people don't. Most people post from work or home at least some of the time.

Additionally, when registering at ASF users are required to verify their email address by clicking a link in a verification email sent to their registration email address. We have banned most free web based emails so in most cases it would be an email address associated with an ISP, a domain name or a company or educational institution. This email address can also be used to identify people.

I just think it is very important that people be aware that there really is no anonymity, in spite of the fact that there may be the appearance of anonymity, and they should not post anything on forums such as ASF that they would not be prepared to sign their name to.

Junior · 13 March 2009

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

Surely you could establish a new Hotmail account at an internet cafe, then establish a new ASF account and only write posts in public net cafes or librarys?

nunthewiser · 13 March 2009

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

Junior said:
Surely you could establish a new Hotmail account at an internet cafe, then establish a new ASF account and only write posts in public net cafes or librarys?

cant use hotmail //freemails

believe me there would be a whole convent of rampers here if so

Enzyme · 13 March 2009

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

cutz said:
I don’t think there are any details stored by ASF that can be traced back to a user. Am I wrong in thinking this?

Just for interest, go to this site and see what they can tell you about your ip address. They put your address in the textbox for you, just click "look up ip address". This information is available to any site you visit.

It is possible to browse anonymously. Google "anon proxy". You configure your browser to use a publicly available proxy server - which you find via google, there are plenty available. Your browser hits the proxy server which could be in Russia or Mexico or wherever, so the proxy server sees your IP address. The proxy then forwards your request on to the site you are browsing. The site you are browsing sees only the IP address of the proxy, not your IP address. This is the same approach that most large organisations use. If you're sitting in a public library or large organisation you'll probably be using a proxy. It is free, but using an anon proxy your browser may suffer a performance hit.

You can also use this approach to have multiple internet personas: Configure firefox to use a proxy in Russia, IE to use a proxy in Taiwan, and Safari a proxy in Mexico. You will appear to any site you browse as coming from a completely different location, depending which browser you use.

It is possible to track down someone using this approach to conceal their identity, but it takes some serious law enforcement action and even then it might not work. Authorities would have to take action in the country where the proxy server is located and hope the proxy server has maintained a adequate log of its activity.

Enzyme · 13 March 2009

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

Oh, could the Brisconnection legal team please pass this on to Trevor Rowe for me please:

1. How can you act in the best interests of unit-holders when you are not one yourself? * excuse me if I don’t count the hundred and twenty five dollar holding in your super fund as worthy of consideration;

2. Are you acting in the best interests of unit holders? I mean really? Seriously?

3. Consider when, in several months time, you are in court and being asked were your actions in March and April in the best interests of unit holders? How confident are you that you can convince the court that your current actions were in the best interests of unit holders when:

a. Many of your unit holders have been bankrupted, and;

b. Those unit holders that could pay the instalment saw the value of their investment instantly devalue to nothing.

4. What benefit to unit holders from your current actions will you be able to demonstrate to the court when you come to defend the inevitable class action later this year?

5. Will you give a public commitment that you will not seek to avoid receiving the allocated 40% of your salary to be used to purchase Brisconnections shares on-market?

Thanks

Prospector · 13 March 2009

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

There is always 10 minute mail - a proper email address that lasts long enough to confirm the address.

Enzyme · 13 March 2009

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

...and the xB browser (free download) which has anonymous web browsing built in...

TheAbyss · 13 March 2009

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

Enzyme said:
Oh, could the Brisconnection legal team please pass this on to Trevor Rowe for me please:

1. How can you act in the best interests of unit-holders when you are not one yourself? * excuse me if I don’t count the hundred and twenty five dollar holding in your super fund as worthy of consideration;

2. Are you acting in the best interests of unit holders? I mean really? Seriously?

3. Consider when, in several months time, you are in court and being asked were your actions in March and April in the best interests of unit holders? How confident are you that you can convince the court that your current actions were in the best interests of unit holders when:

a. Many of your unit holders have been bankrupted, and;

b. Those unit holders that could pay the instalment saw the value of their investment instantly devalue to nothing.

4. What benefit to unit holders from your current actions will you be able to demonstrate to the court when you come to defend the inevitable class action later this year?

5. Will you give a public commitment that you will not seek to avoid receiving the allocated 40% of your salary to be used to purchase Brisconnections shares on-market?

Thanks

Send it here.

Tamira Herbst
Company Secretary and General Counsel
BrisConnections
Airport Link, Northern Busway (Windsor to Kedron)
& Airport Roundabout Upgrade Projects

BrisConnections
Level 2, 125 Kedron Park Road, Kedron QLD 4131
PO Box 412 Lutwyche QLD 4130
T: 07 3170 1909
D: 07 3170 1903
F: 07 3170 1911
M: 0407 367 368
tamira.herbst@brisconnections.com.au
www.brisconnections.com.au

Cats · 13 March 2009

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

Enzyme said:
More detail on yesterday's proceedings here: Big guns for BrisConnections battle

To all those on this forum our BIG thanks........for those who are twisted into this mess it is great to have somewhere to look for continuing information........and to find articles to refer to..........

Enzyme · 13 March 2009

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

It happened on the planes of the Serengeti in Africa. The rains had been good that year. Tens of thousands of animals of all shapes and sizes were slowly making their way across the plane. Food was abundant. A pride if lions lazed under the shade of an acacia tree, sheltering from the heat of the day. Fat and well fed the paid no attention to the fresh and only slightly eaten wildebeest they had feasted upon a few hours earlier.

Then in a sudden burst of activity, one of the younger males who had been absent through the morning suddenly burst out of the bushes some distance from the main group of lions. This young male, obviously agitated and distressed was racing around frantically. It charged up to an enormous pile of fresh elephant dung which it then ate a quickly at it possibly could.

This unusual behaviour got the attention of the other lions who lifted their heads from their slumber to look at what their young colleague was doing.

Having fully devoured the pile of elephant poo, the young lion then continued to charge madly around the plane. Obviously still agitated, it ran up to another enormous pile of elephant poo which it devoured as quickly as the first.

This bizarre behaviour mystified the other lions, many of which got to their feet to get a better view of what was happening.

The young lion repeated his actions: Run around frantically, find a pile of poo, and eat it. Again and again he did this.

One of the other lions came out of the shade and out on to the plane to speak to his friend. “What are you doing?” he asked. “If you are hungry why don’t eat some of that wildebeest over there instead of feasting on excrement?”

“No, no, you don’t understand” replied the still agitated young lion. “I’ve just eaten a lawyer and I need to get the taste out of my mouth!”.

Somehow I like the idea of having this subpoened to a court case. :fu:

Macquack · 13 March 2009

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

Shakespeare was right
"The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers''

The Brisconnections fiasco now has more lawyers working on it than there are construction workers building the flaming road.

Lawyers have a role in society, however their labour and remuneration should not render all other tangible production of goods and services as inferior.

Sunder · 14 March 2009

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

Enzyme said:
Mr Bolton had “engaged in conduct which was unconscionable” Mr Santamaria told the court.

I totally agree with this, and I hope to see him get just punishment for it, as should anyone else who was seeking unethical, if questionably legal avenues for divesting themselves of their liability.

doctorj · 14 March 2009

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

Sunder said:
I totally agree with this, and I hope to see him get just punishment for it, as should anyone else who was seeking unethical, if questionably legal avenues for divesting themselves of their liability.

It's not a liability unless you hold it at the record date...

Surely unethical is spending a significant portion of shareholder's funds sueing shareholders and holding people to terms set in a PDS they were never given before purchase and certainly never signed?

People face the threat of bankruptcy as a result of a company failing to take reasonable means to prevent individuals from incuring a wildly disproportionate liability relative to their initial investment. To my mind, this outcome was reasonably foreseeable as soon as the share price began to plummet and the company was negligent by not doing anything, ASIC was negligent by not insuring processes were in place to ensure investors were properly informed prior to purchasing and finally ASX were negligent because they allowed this product to be traded to unsophisticated investors on their market.

A company does not exist to serve itself, but rather is ultimately run for the benefit of all shareholders. This whole situation could and should have been avoided and is ultimately a result of poor management.

NiMaC · 14 March 2009

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

Sunder said:
I totally agree with this, and I hope to see him get just punishment for it, as should anyone else who was seeking unethical, if questionably legal avenues for divesting themselves of their liability.

Oh sure!Like Brisconnections for allowing these poisonous shares out on unsuspecting mum & dad type traders and sitting by knowing full well what was going to happen and then changing the rules to suit themselves, like the gutless ASX board (including Treveor Rowe)for doing nothing about it, ASIC likewise, like Macquarrie who dumped them knowing full well what was probably going to happen.Big soleless corporate monsters who don't give a toss about anything ethical, only making enough money to keep to shareholder off their back and to keep the bloated fat cat management in clover.They don't care that there are real people with families getting torn apart from stress and worry about this scam.

nunthewiser · 14 March 2009

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

NiMaC said:
Oh sure!Like Brisconnections for allowing these poisonous shares out on unsuspecting mum & dad type traders and sitting by knowing full well what was going to happen and then changing the rules to suit themselves, like the gutless ASX board (including Treveor Rowe)for doing nothing about it, ASIC likewise, like Macquarrie who dumped them knowing full well what was probably going to happen.Big soleless corporate monsters who don't give a toss about anything ethical, only making enough money to keep to shareholder off their back and to keep the bloated fat cat management in clover.They don't care that there are real people with families getting torn apart from stress and worry about this scam.

NO OFFENSE INTENDED

um..........buyer beware ? do your own research ? if its too good to be true it usually is ?

i DO have a thought for those stung by it .......... but in the same sense "i lookked i didnt buy , why did anyone else?"

good luck with it guys

sails · 14 March 2009

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

nunthewiser said:
... "i lookked i didnt buy , why did anyone else?"...

It may well depend on the broker you use. It appears from the posts in this thread that some brokers gave no warning whatsoever of impending doom. I understand there are no educational requirements to set up an online account. I don't think that even speaking English is a requirement. Not every one has your bishop, Nun

Sunder said:
I totally agree with this, and I hope to see him get just punishment for it, as should anyone else who was seeking unethical, if questionably legal avenues for divesting themselves of their liability.

In a radio link Julia posted some time ago http://www.abc.net.au/rn/nationalinterest/stories/2009/2503496.htm it stated that only 12% was allocated for retail investors. Is this so?

Sunder, in the name of ethics, how did such a large percentage (estimates suggest nearly 80%) end up in unsuspecting retail hands?

Sunder · 14 March 2009

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

doctorj said:
It's not a liability unless you hold it at the record date...

Surely unethical is spending a significant portion of shareholder's funds sueing shareholders and holding people to terms set in a PDS they were never given before purchase and certainly never signed?

1. Technically that might be true (but I still have my doubts: I've been told even a debt which hasn't fallen due should still be listed as a liability), but isn't that a bit like buying a car on credit, then telling the next buyer that there's no debt on the car, because the next repayment is not due till April?

2. You forget that the company has an ethical and contractual obligation to the State to build a road as well.

In addition Brisconnections are not suing "real" unit holders with a real interest in a company. Brisconnections is suing a single rogue unitholder who is trying to undermine the project. They are, in fact, acting in the best interests of the majority of the unit holders, against one rogue one.

Prospector · 14 March 2009

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

Sunder said:
1. Technically that might be true (but I still have my doubts: I've been told even a debt which hasn't fallen due should still be listed as a liability), but isn't that a bit like buying a car on credit, then telling the next buyer that there's no debt on the car, because the next repayment is not due till April?

If you buy a car and it has a loan on it, then it is the buyers problem, not the sellers!
There is no way an instalment liability remains with the seller; otherwise, in this scenario, the 'people' who bought the shares through the IPO are still responsible! That certainly didnt happen with the Telstra float and its instalment payments, so why is this any different!

I am betting that the Rogue as you call him, is most share holders hero!

Sunder · 14 March 2009

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

Prospector said:
If you buy a car and it has a loan on it, then it is the buyers problem, not the sellers!
There is no way an instalment liability remains with the seller; otherwise, in this scenario, the 'people' who bought the shares through the IPO are still responsible! That certainly didnt happen with the Telstra float and its instalment payments, so why is this any different!

I am betting that the Rogue as you call him, is most share holders hero!

1. Bingo! It's not any different - until some transactions became fraudulent. In the Bolton affair, any idiot can see that the transactions are not genuine, but rather a direct attempt to pass the liability off the the underwriters.

It's about as legit as intentionally crashing an insured car. Sure the actions may look the same, but the intent is vastly different.

2. If that were true, would he have needed to acquire more shares than absolutely necessary to call an EGM? Would he have even needed enough to call an EGM? Couldn't this "most share holders" have just called one and wound up the trust without him?

BCS - BrisConnections Unit Trusts

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Cats

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nunthewiser

sails

Sunder

Prospector

Not a scaredy cat anymore

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