BCS - BrisConnections Unit Trusts

Absolutely · 7 January 2009

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

OK, anyone tempted to buy a few of these at these prices ?

I mean it's a huge fiasco and embarrassment for the company. Those who can't pay their outstanding committments will surely forfeit their shares, but not a lot more then that will happen I don't think (may be a bit of company hot air in the interim to scare a few in to meeting committments if at all possible.This is more to keep an image up then anything). But after that, the company will want and need to create some sort of value for those who do pay up. They are going to get the money from the underwriters anyway who would of conducted some sort of due diligence on the project before committing.

I'm tempted to buy a 1000. Surely the company will want to see the value of the first installment go back up at least a bit. It was a fire sale to get out. There must be some value in this project surely. I am looking at getting some work for my own company on the project and from what I can work out, it's business as usual at Brisconnect. they are going to build these roads, and at some point they are going to be worth something.

Any thoughts....?

prawn_86 · 7 January 2009

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

Absolutely said:
Any thoughts....?

Normally $500 is the minimum parcel, so you would have a massive liability from the start

sails · 7 January 2009

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

Absolutely said:
OK, anyone tempted to buy a few of these at these prices ?

I mean it's a huge fiasco and embarrassment for the company. Those who can't pay their outstanding committments will surely forfeit their shares, but not a lot more then that will happen I don't think (may be a bit of company hot air in the interim to scare a few in to meeting committments if at all possible.This is more to keep an image up then anything). But after that, the company will want and need to create some sort of value for those who do pay up. They are going to get the money from the underwriters anyway who would of conducted some sort of due diligence on the project before committing.

I'm tempted to buy a 1000. Surely the company will want to see the value of the first installment go back up at least a bit. It was a fire sale to get out. There must be some value in this project surely. I am looking at getting some work for my own company on the project and from what I can work out, it's business as usual at Brisconnect. they are going to build these roads, and at some point they are going to be worth something.

Any thoughts....?

LOL, that would cost only cost you $1 at this stage. Of course $2,000 down the track.

If you are seriously going to do this - why not contact one of the guys here in trouble and see if you can do an off market transfer. Wouldn't be much help, but a perhaps a little is better than none.

sails · 7 January 2009

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

prawn_86 said:
Normally $500 is the minimum parcel, so you would have a massive liability from the start

I thought that was only Commsec? I rarely trade shares unless assigned on an option, so I may have it wrong.

prawn_86 · 7 January 2009

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

sails said:
I thought that was only Commsec? I rarely trade shares unless assigned on an option, so I may have it wrong.

Never actually tried less than $500 with my broker, brokerage chews up way too much.

Absolutely · 7 January 2009

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

Well, it could be worth the punt????? But only if I can get just a 1000. Just pay the brokerage so to speak.

I'll be up for a couple of thousand down the track but by that time the company should of figured a way out of this mess, will have pissed off the defaulters and will be wanting to get the thing going again for those who are left.

Sunder · 7 January 2009

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

Absolutely said:
OK, anyone tempted to buy a few of these at these prices ?

I mean it's a huge fiasco and embarrassment for the company. Those who can't pay their outstanding committments will surely forfeit their shares, but not a lot more then that will happen I don't think (may be a bit of company hot air in the interim to scare a few in to meeting committments if at all possible.This is more to keep an image up then anything). But after that, the company will want and need to create some sort of value for those who do pay up. They are going to get the money from the underwriters anyway who would of conducted some sort of due diligence on the project before committing.

So, I'm curious... What happens when a letter from Macquarie Bank gets sent like this?

Dear Mr T Rowe,

We refer to your request to pay out your claim for the unrecoverable portion of the contributing shares. We refer you to clause 19773 subsection A, which imposes upon your company, Brisconnections, the responsibility to make all legal and reasonable attempts to recover outstanding contributions. We note that you have not pursued any holders of the securities through traditional debt collection methods, and therefore cannot consider your efforts "reasonable", and we consider you in breach of your responsibilities.

We therefore regret to inform you that we are declining to pay your insurance claim.

Best Regards,
Mr N. Moore
Chairman, Macquarie Bank

Make no mistake. Brisconnections cannot in any way make it even vaguely look like they're letting anyone off the hook, otherwise their insurance contract is worth as much as the comprehensive car insurance contract of someone who admitted to drink driving while disqualified. Zip.

outback · 7 January 2009

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

So why aren't the professional type investment businesses jumping on board?

cuttlefish · 7 January 2009

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

Absolutely said:
Well, it could be worth the punt????? But only if I can get just a 1000. Just pay the brokerage so to speak.

I'll be up for a couple of thousand down the track but by that time the company should of figured a way out of this mess, will have pissed off the defaulters and will be wanting to get the thing going again for those who are left.

It doesn't make any sense to me to buy even a small parcel.

If there were a true market for these they would be trading at a negative price (in my opinion). Even after the next $1 instalment has been paid its entirely possible they could still continue to trade well below $1. (The initial $1 instalment paid when it was floated didn't stop them trading down to .001c, why should the second instalment be any better).

Sunder · 7 January 2009

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

cuttlefish said:
If there were a true market for these they would be trading at a negative price (in my opinion).

I agree. If there are people willing to pay you to take these shares off their hands (which from this thread, there clearly are!), then the "true market value" of this share is negative.

Julia · 7 January 2009

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

sails said:
LOL, that would cost only cost you $1 at this stage. Of course $2,000 down the track.

If you are seriously going to do this - why not contact one of the guys here in trouble and see if you can do an off market transfer. Wouldn't be much help, but a perhaps a little is better than none.

That's about the only positive I could see in anyone acquiring any of these shares at this stage.

Sunder said:
So, I'm curious... What happens when a letter from Macquarie Bank gets sent like this?

Dear Mr T Rowe,

We refer to your request to pay out your claim for the unrecoverable portion of the contributing shares. We refer you to clause 19773 subsection A, which imposes upon your company, Brisconnections, the responsibility to make all legal and reasonable attempts to recover outstanding contributions. We note that you have not pursued any holders of the securities through traditional debt collection methods, and therefore cannot consider your efforts "reasonable", and we consider you in breach of your responsibilities.

We therefore regret to inform you that we are declining to pay your insurance claim.

Best Regards,
Mr N. Moore
Chairman, Macquarie Bank

Make no mistake. Brisconnections cannot in any way make it even vaguely look like they're letting anyone off the hook, otherwise their insurance contract is worth as much as the comprehensive car insurance contract of someone who admitted to drink driving while disqualified. Zip.

Yep, very hard to see that Macquarie will play anything other than a very hard ball with this, as they do with everything else.

cuttlefish said:
It doesn't make any sense to me to buy even a small parcel.

If there were a true market for these they would be trading at a negative price (in my opinion). Even after the next $1 instalment has been paid its entirely possible they could still continue to trade well below $1. (The initial $1 instalment paid when it was floated didn't stop them trading down to .001c, why should the second instalment be any better).

Agree completely.

cuttlefish · 7 January 2009

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

Sunder said:
Dear Mr T Rowe,

We refer to your request to pay out your claim for the unrecoverable portion of the contributing shares. We refer you to clause 19773 subsection A, which imposes upon your company, Brisconnections, the responsibility to make all legal and reasonable attempts to recover outstanding contributions. We note that you have not pursued any holders of the securities through traditional debt collection methods, and therefore cannot consider your efforts "reasonable", and we consider you in breach of your responsibilities.

We therefore regret to inform you that we are declining to pay your insurance claim.

Best Regards,
Mr N. Moore
Chairman, Macquarie Bank

Make no mistake. Brisconnections cannot in any way make it even vaguely look like they're letting anyone off the hook, otherwise their insurance contract is worth as much as the comprehensive car insurance contract of someone who admitted to drink driving while disqualified. Zip.

Yes I agree with this as well - in this respect Brisconnect is between a rock and a hard place. In my view, somehow public or political pressure will have to be brought to bear on the situation , or alternately some sort of succesful legal defense tackling the legality of a liability that has been acquired in this manner. (or a combination of the two).

Bushie · 7 January 2009

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

Which brings us back in a circle to the horror situation of Mac Bank & Duesche Banks trying to divide up our assets in a fire sale by taking our property from us (after our mortgage bank gets first chop) at the end of the day they can/may/will? put us out on the street???!!! I understand that big banks don't think twice when it comes to taking real estate, no matter where or of what value.

Sir Osisofliver · 7 January 2009

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

@ absolutely...don't be tempted.

To everyone stuck with these shares.....

I don't want to seem like I am rubbing your noses in it. I'm going to make the following comment out of a spirit of keeping you informed. Please don't flame me.

@ holders of Brisconnect...

If you default upon your instalment and cannot pay, Brisconnections will ultimately sell your shares on market and then pursue you for the difference.... Do you get how that works?

The current shares BCSCA (listed at $1.00) will probably have a code change when the due date occurs (to reflect that in effect there are TWO shares. One where the instalment has been paid...and one in which it has not.) Don't add stress to yourselves when this code change occurs and then a few days later it pops back up under BCSCA. Unlike when you purchased the shares...be aware of what is happening before it happens. DON'T look on the market see the price is no longer $0.001 cent and hit the sell shares button in a knee jerk reaction - Make sure you know which shares are which or you could end up with trying to sell a share you don't own.

One of the options (and IMHO the most likely) that BCSCA has is to sell defaulting shares.... there is currently no market for them to be able to do this under a pre instalment market. So how will they do this?

There will be a post instalment market - these are the shares that have just had a dollar paid into them...they should be worth at least a dollar right? Right? I mean these things will have had $2.00 paid into them when you consider the IPO as the first instalment. Sorry won't play like that. Because Brisconnect will sell the defaulting shares into this market (because it will be the only market that they can sell shares into in an attempt to recover the debt).

With so much stock to be sold hanging over the shares, guess what that will do to the share price? TIMBER!!!!

So what does this mean for you if you spent $500 at a tenth of a cent and bought 500,000 shares?

Brisconnect sells your shares at...

$1.00 - You forfeit your shares and breath a sigh of relief
$0.90 - You forfeit your shares and they pursue you for $50,000.00
$0.80 - You forfeit your shares and they pursue you for $100,000.00
$0.70 - You forfeit your shares and they pursue you for $150,000.00
$0.10 - You forfeit your shares and they pursue you for $450,000.00

So for you holding the shares what does this tell you?

a) if there is likely to be a significant overhang on the shares that will get worse with time.
b) which is likley to depress the shares more over time
c) you can't sell your shares into the post instalment market...only they can do so when they default you.

Do you want Brisconnect to default you and sell your shares....as soon as possible? or when they get around to you amongst the thousands of other shareholders?

Hopefully I've stimulated you into thinking about what you might be able to do to lessen your exposure.

Good Luck

Sir O

Cartman · 7 January 2009

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

Bushie said:
Which brings us back in a circle to the horror situation of Mac Bank & Duesche Banks trying to divide up our assets in a fire sale by taking our property from us (after our mortgage bank gets first chop) at the end of the day they can/may/will? put us out on the street???!!! I understand that big banks don't think twice when it comes to taking real estate, no matter where or of what value.

hey Bushie --- my sympathies to u and all others caught up in this -----

just out of curiousity ---- did any of u guys take my suggestion seriously that u all band together and X-trade yr shares to the one with the least amount of assets (least amount to lose) ----

that person would become the fall guy and declare bankruptcy when the MacCrooks come knocking ---- effectively letting everyone else off the hook --

the ones off the hook can then 'discretely" compensate the fall guy after the event with a small remuneration per player ---------

everybody wins ---- MacCrooks lose ---- shifty?? not really --- gotta play the same game M/C are happy to play with u guys --- most likely legal too ------ no-one sees merit in this?? --
desperate times require outside the square thinking !!

Dondi · 7 January 2009

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

Sir Osisofliver said:
@ absolutely...don't be tempted.

To everyone stuck with these shares.....

I don't want to seem like I am rubbing your noses in it. I'm going to make the following comment out of a spirit of keeping you informed. Please don't flame me.

@ holders of Brisconnect...

If you default upon your instalment and cannot pay, Brisconnections will ultimately sell your shares on market and then pursue you for the difference.... Do you get how that works?

The current shares BCSCA (listed at $1.00) will probably have a code change when the due date occurs (to reflect that in effect there are TWO shares. One where the instalment has been paid...and one in which it has not.) Don't add stress to yourselves when this code change occurs and then a few days later it pops back up under BCSCA. Unlike when you purchased the shares...be aware of what is happening before it happens. DON'T look on the market see the price is no longer $0.001 cent and hit the sell shares button in a knee jerk reaction - Make sure you know which shares are which or you could end up with trying to sell a share you don't own.

One of the options (and IMHO the most likely) that BCSCA has is to sell defaulting shares.... there is currently no market for them to be able to do this under a pre instalment market. So how will they do this?

There will be a post instalment market - these are the shares that have just had a dollar paid into them...they should be worth at least a dollar right? Right? I mean these things will have had $2.00 paid into them when you consider the IPO as the first instalment. Sorry won't play like that. Because Brisconnect will sell the defaulting shares into this market (because it will be the only market that they can sell shares into in an attempt to recover the debt).

With so much stock to be sold hanging over the shares, guess what that will do to the share price? TIMBER!!!!

So what does this mean for you if you spent $500 at a tenth of a cent and bought 500,000 shares?

Brisconnect sells your shares at...

$1.00 - You forfeit your shares and breath a sigh of relief
$0.90 - You forfeit your shares and they pursue you for $50,000.00
$0.80 - You forfeit your shares and they pursue you for $100,000.00
$0.70 - You forfeit your shares and they pursue you for $150,000.00
$0.10 - You forfeit your shares and they pursue you for $450,000.00

So for you holding the shares what does this tell you?

a) if there is likely to be a significant overhang on the shares that will get worse with time.
b) which is likley to depress the shares more over time
c) you can't sell your shares into the post instalment market...only they can do so when they default you.

Do you want Brisconnect to default you and sell your shares....as soon as possible? or when they get around to you amongst the thousands of other shareholders?

Hopefully I've stimulated you into thinking about what you might be able to do to lessen your exposure.

Good Luck

Sir O

Thanks for the heads up Sir Osisofliver but I have a few questions:

1. Don't BrisC risk saving the same problem if they take this route. ie, what if they sell into the market and end up selling to more mums and dads at 10c or below. They'll just have the same problem when the 3rd and final instalment needs to be payed??

2. Has this course of action been taken before with similar situations in the past?

Bushie · 7 January 2009

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

So that we can get back on track again I am attempting to upload a 6 page 'fact sheet' that we received from BCS dated 9th Dec outlining exactly what they intend to do to us & its gruesome path. This is so wrong - it sounds like it has been choriographed well in advance.

Dondi · 7 January 2009

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

Dondi said:
Thanks for the heads up Sir Osisofliver but I have a few questions:

1. Don't BrisC risk saving the same problem if they take this route. ie, what if they sell into the market and end up selling to more mums and dads at 10c or below. They'll just have the same problem when the 3rd and final instalment needs to be payed??

2. Has this course of action been taken before with similar situations in the past?

Sir O, in your opinion would it make more sense for Maqb or another big institution to accept a transfer of all our shares, cleaning up the share registry, turning Brisc into a tightly held stock and ensuring they dont have this same nightmare in 2010.

steve999 · 7 January 2009

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

Cartman said:
hey Bushie --- my sympathies to u and all others caught up in this -----

just out of curiousity ---- did any of u guys take my suggestion seriously that u all band together and X-trade yr shares to the one with the least amount of assets (least amount to lose) ----

that person would become the fall guy and declare bankruptcy when the MacCrooks come knocking ---- effectively letting everyone else off the hook --

the ones off the hook can then 'discretely" compensate the fall guy after the event with a small remuneration per player ---------

everybody wins ---- MacCrooks lose ---- shifty?? not really --- gotta play the same game M/C are happy to play with u guys --- most likely legal too ------ no-one sees merit in this?? --
desperate times require outside the square thinking !!

If I personally held any of these shares I'd be considering this. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, for 100k you could basically own 30% of the shares. If I knew I was going to get bankrupted anyway, I'd buy all the shares for sale. Hmm, If I owned 100% of the shares I could probably get out of having to pay myself the next installment

Bushie · 7 January 2009

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

steve999 said:
If I personally held any of these shares I'd be considering this. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, for 100k you could basically own 30% of the shares. If I knew I was going to get bankrupted anyway, I'd buy all the shares for sale. Hmm, If I owned 100% of the shares I could probably get out of having to pay myself the next installment

Sounds interesting only to date we only know of 5 of us in contact, we would need to access the registry somehow to find out who the other 100's are. I am in the (no money) department therefore I can only try to give my shares/units away to any takers no matter how small a parcel off market. As on market I can only move $500 worth which instantly amounts to a $1million dollar debt. However I liked "Absolutely's" suggestion - anyone who wants from 100 to 1000 shares can have them. Free. I am not selling them, therefore I am breaking no law I know of - surely I can give them away?

BCS - BrisConnections Unit Trusts

Absolutely

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sails

sails

prawn_86

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Absolutely

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Sunder

Julia

In Memoriam

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Sir Osisofliver

Cartman

Dondi

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