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BA - Boeing Co. (NYSE)

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mullokintyre said:
Have no idea, its not a stock have followed nor invested in.
Mick
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Within the aviation industry, Boeing is talked about as being one of the many industrial orgs where the accountants have pushed the engineers to the backroom.
Engineering, maintenance, parts tracking and logging are vitally important, but making a buck has taken over.
It remains to be seen as to whether this isa good or bad thing, but the disaster that was the Callide Power station is a perfect example of what happens when the bean counters have too much influence.
mick
 
mullokintyre said:
I took a tour of the boeing factory recently when I was in Seattle.
The security has intense.
No photographs, indeed no electronic devices of any kind were allowed on the tour.
Interesting, but then most of the hard work is actually done by Spirit Aerospace in Witchita Kansas where they build the fuselages.
Its all time high was in February 2019 at $435.
Been down hill since then.
The quarterly EPS shows losses for the past 19 quarters, which might explain the underling SP weakness.
Another once great company slowly dying and losing its innovative leadership.
Mick
View attachment 185786

View attachment 185785
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I wouldn't write Boeing off thinking that the next 5 years will follow the trend of the last 5 years.

I mean they 5 year period quoted includes covid, which as you should probably understand saw the biggest down turn in aviation ever, and some big interruptions from the 737Max problems, neither is likely to be repeated.
 
Things not getting any better for boeing.
One of its satellites just went boom, bits of stuff wandering around in low GEO.
Makes it difficult for the Yanks to take the high moral ground over Chinese space trash.
Mick
1729631825055.png
 
Boeing has finally had some good news.
The company has been anointed by Trump to build the next generation of US fighters.
From Zero hedge
1742596876092.png

From its lows of late last year, it has made a recovery, with a good boost from yesterdays news.
Mick
1742597061318.png
 
My problem is that in the age of autonomous drones, are we wasting our money on fighters and other manned aircraft?
With a price tag of over %100 million each, say around 5 crashes in training and fllght testing blows a big hole.
Would this money be better spent on drones?
Mick
 
mullokintyre said:
My problem is that in the age of autonomous drones, are we wasting our money on fighters and other manned aircraft?
With a price tag of over %100 million each, say around 5 crashes in training and fllght testing blows a big hole.
Would this money be better spent on drones?
Mick
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Off course but do not ask military big shots to think aheads, they are always a war behind...
Maybe Ukraine is shaking up a bit their belief in tanks, fighters and submarines but i doubt, and they will probably go for jet or submarines sized drones provided by the same friendly corporations ensuring a very nice retirement.
So boeing will still sell us dinosaurs
A bit off track but now nearly 15y ago, i tried to sell the concept of multitude of small haulers in the bhp mines, but they were all in the bigger is better 435t CAT haulers.
An army of ants vs a fat cow
Sadly the bigger is better seems to be entrenched in the decision makers.ego probably.
While small drones are better than big jets or giant drones as Ukraine demonstrates and it is a threat to boeing, for passengers jets, the concept does not fit, so boeing still has a civilian market, but airbus and now China are substantial threat especially in a trade war concept
 
qldfrog said:
Off course but do not ask military big shots to think aheads, they are always a war behind...
Maybe Ukraine is shaking up a bit their belief in tanks, fighters and submarines but i doubt, and they will probably go for jet or submarines sized drones provided by the same friendly corporations ensuring a very nice retirement.
So boeing will still sell us dinosaurs
A bit off track but now nearly 15y ago, i tried to sell the concept of multitude of small haulers in the bhp mines, but they were all in the bigger is better 435t CAT haulers.
An army of ants vs a fat cow
Sadly the bigger is better seems to be entrenched in the decision makers.ego probably.
While small drones are better than big jets or giant drones as Ukraine demonstrates and it is a threat to boeing, for passengers jets, the concept does not fit, so boeing still has a civilian market, but airbus and now China are substantial threat especially in a trade war concept
Click to expand...
Having had the unfortunate experience of dealing with RAAF bigheads in discussions over ridiculous airspace restrictions around airbases etc, my opinion of the RAAf attitude to the rest of the world is not high.
Some fine individuals in the military, but collectively not worth 20cents.
Mick
 
mullokintyre said:
Having had the unfortunate experience of dealing with RAAF bigheads in discussions over ridiculous airspace restrictions around airbases etc, my opinion of the RAAf attitude to the rest of the world is not high.
Some fine individuals in the military, but collectively not worth 20cents.
Mick
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My experience was french Air force Colonels to Generals, then Euro mix (airspace common management ) leadership...
No hope and here with their US obsession, i doubt any better.
 
mullokintyre said:
My problem is that in the age of autonomous drones, are we wasting our money on fighters and other manned aircraft?
With a price tag of over %100 million each, say around 5 crashes in training and fllght testing blows a big hole.
Would this money be better spent on drones?
Mick
Click to expand...
Worst case scenario fighter jets can be used as launchers for all sorts of drones and missiles, adding not only range to what ever missile it is they are carrying, but the ability to bring the missile back if it turned out it wasn’t needed.

I mean say you have a $500,000 anti ship missile, with a 600 km range, launching it from a fighter gives you additional range because the fighter fly it out 1,000km before it drops it.
 
qldfrog said:
Off course but do not ask military big shots to think aheads, they are always a war behind...
Maybe Ukraine is shaking up a bit their belief in tanks, fighters and submarines but i doubt, and they will probably go for jet or submarines sized drones provided by the same friendly corporations ensuring a very nice retirement.
So boeing will still sell us dinosaurs
A bit off track but now nearly 15y ago, i tried to sell the concept of multitude of small haulers in the bhp mines, but they were all in the bigger is better 435t CAT haulers.
An army of ants vs a fat cow
Sadly the bigger is better seems to be entrenched in the decision makers.ego probably.
While small drones are better than big jets or giant drones as Ukraine demonstrates and it is a threat to boeing, for passengers jets, the concept does not fit, so boeing still has a civilian market, but airbus and now China are substantial threat especially in a trade war concept
Click to expand...
Check out this picture below, those wires are what is left behind by the drones that are controlled through wires to try and defeat the electronic jamming tech.

I think at least for now, having a pilot in the seat of the fighter jet controlling it is a good anti jamming counter measure,

IMG_4632.jpeg
 
Value Collector said:
Worst case scenario fighter jets can be used as launchers for all sorts of drones and missiles, adding not only range to what ever missile it is they are carrying, but the ability to bring the missile back if it turned out it wasn’t needed.

I mean say you have a $500,000 anti ship missile, with a 600 km range, launching it from a fighter gives you additional range because the fighter fly it out 1,000km before it drops it.
Click to expand...
Drone technology these days is in swarms of high numbers.
You send out 100 drones that cost $10,000 each for the same price as the anti ship missile.
You wouldn't use a fighter jet to transport drones when you can do it in bulk with a larger aircraft.
Mick
 
Value Collector said:
I wouldn't write Boeing off thinking that the next 5 years will follow the trend of the last 5 years.

I mean they 5 year period quoted includes covid, which as you should probably understand saw the biggest down turn in aviation ever, and some big interruptions from the 737Max problems, neither is likely to be repeated.
Click to expand...
Boeing will continue to be a subsidy-hog ( just like GM and GE )

Boeing has problems in numerous places ( not just space-travel , i think it should have gone Chapter 11 or similar in 2020 , but no , it had to be rescued to keep the military flying )

737MAX was just the obvious wreck they have issues with engines , wiring and goodness knows what else
 
mullokintyre said:
Lets hope that the result is better than Lockeed Martin's F35.
Mick
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NOPE .. expensive and overly complicated is the current trend ( no matter what the West buys )

that is why Ukraine is being crushed by Iranian designed drones ( cheap , simple and easy to make go BANG ! )
 
mullokintyre said:
Drone technology these days is in swarms of high numbers.
You send out 100 drones that cost $10,000 each for the same price as the anti ship missile.
You wouldn't use a fighter jet to transport drones when you can do it in bulk with a larger aircraft.
Mick
Click to expand...
Well I don’t think either you are me is an air warfare strategist, but the whole point of fighter aircraft is that they can defend themselves, these “larger aircraft” you want to use to launch drones would be susceptible to attack from enemy fighters. Think back to WW2 and how bombers needed fighter escorts.

Fighter aircraft are very versatile, they can be used to attack almost anything, while also not being any easy targets themselves, they can carry many different payloads.
 
Value Collector said:
Well I don’t think either you are me is an air warfare strategist, but the whole point of fighter aircraft is that they can defend themselves, these “larger aircraft” you want to use to launch drones would be susceptible to attack from enemy fighters. Think back to WW2 and how bombers needed fighter escorts.

Fighter aircraft are very versatile, they can be used to attack almost anything, while also not being any easy targets themselves, they can carry many different payloads.
Click to expand...
Yeah, WW2, no worries.
I look at what is happening in Ukraine to see where warfare is heading.

Mick
 


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