Average/necessary salary vs. living expenses

[numbercruncher]

I have no wish to live in the sort of misery endured by my ancestors, thanks.
Already have 150% of the pool's surface area in solar tubing on the roof.

And I have no interest in having wet clothes strung across a verandah eg rather than run the dryer for half an hour.

Why make the assumption that the appliances are not already energy efficient?

Is that not a fair assumption considering the enormous elec/water bill you told us you get ?

5 people in my household and we use energy as we need it and it isnt even half of your bill ....

Doesnt seem to bother you though - perhaps when costs double in the coming years youll find ways to reduce your usage ?

All good though - I like the user pays system .....

 

[Julia]

Is that not a fair assumption considering the enormous elec/water bill you told us you get ?

5 people in my household and we use energy as we need it and it isnt even half of your bill ....

Doesnt seem to bother you though - perhaps when costs double in the coming years youll find ways to reduce your usage ?.

Why should you tell me that I should find ways to reduce my usage?

Why not assume that I have prioritised what's important to me and one of those priorities is being able to swim all year round?

Perhaps I'd rather pay that $1600 winter power bill which gives me 90 odd days of swimming, than have a single week's holiday somewhere.

In other words, numbercruncher, I don't tell you or anyone else how to manage your finances so kindly mind your own business in terms of how I manage mine.

 

[numbercruncher]

Why should you tell me that I should find ways to reduce my usage?

Why not assume that I have prioritised what's important to me and one of those priorities is being able to swim all year round?

Perhaps I'd rather pay that $1600 winter power bill which gives me 90 odd days of swimming, than have a single week's holiday somewhere.

In other words, numbercruncher, I don't tell you or anyone else how to manage your finances so kindly mind your own business in terms of how I manage mine.

Hello Julia -

Only reason I commented was because it sounded like you were whinging about the cost of your utility bills - labelling them extortion or similar.

Believe me i couldnt care less if you snorted hundred dollar bills up your nose or threw them from rooftops - if you dont want people to comment on your energy use why bother posting it on a forum ?

I dont begrudge peoples consumption , keeps the economy ticking over and my income stocks say thanks too ...

Have a nice evening ....

 

[CanOz]

In other words, numbercruncher, I don't tell you or anyone else how to manage your finances so kindly mind your own business in terms of how I manage mine.

:twak:

LOL!

 

[Julia]

Only reason I commented was because it sounded like you were whinging about the cost of your utility bills - labelling them extortion or similar.

Below is what I said. I suggested the rates here are unreasonably high. I was not, however, whingeing about the cost of the electricity, much as it does irritate me to know that I'm subsidising inefficient 'green schemes' invoked by the government just to accommodate the Greens' demands, and will soon be paying for a carbon tax which makes no sense.

Believe me i couldnt care less if you snorted hundred dollar bills up your nose or threw them from rooftops

Then I suggest you don't comment.

- if you dont want people to comment on your energy use why bother posting it on a forum ?

Simply because I was contradicting Eager's suggestion that cost of living is cheaper in regional areas. Quite obviously it's not.

Agree that the rates are extortion. A cousin living in one of Sydney's nicest areas on a large block with a $2M home pays far less, with access to all that Sydney has to offer.

To be fair about the electricity, I'm running a pool which is what takes up most of it, including both solar and heat pump to heat the pool in winter.

I do water the garden (though I have three 5000 litre water tanks also) and lawns if necessary.

Re finding a better deal, there's no choice. Council sets the rates, I'm not eligible for any discount, and ditto water.

 

[Ves]

Simply because I was contradicting Eager's suggestion that cost of living is cheaper in regional areas. Quite obviously it's not.

You probably should be comparing apples to apples; not everyone wants to have full year access to a heated pool. How much would it cost to do such a thing in the city?

 

[Smurf1976]

Suffice to say that it says an awful lot about the situation we're in that practically any discussion of living expenses in Australia these days quickly turns to the subject of electricity. Hardly anyone would have even mentioned it a few years ago.

Anyway, I'll "bite" and here are my household energy expenses. It's a very "normal" 3 bedroom suburban house but I live by myself (well, unless you count other occupants of the cat, fish and mouse variety but they don't use much power).

Space heating (main part of house) = $800 for electricity and about $250 for wood. I use the wood on weekends only, and the electric heat of an evening Monday - Friday.

Heating downstairs garage / workshop = $175 for pellets and $40 for oil. I mainly use the pellet heater, but it's not powerful enough by itself in the middle of winter so the oil burner gets the occasional run. This area is only heated for around 100 hours a year.

Hot water = $180 (electric heat pump). Some of my work clothes get oily and need washing in hot water, and I also like long showers (usually about 15 minutes)

LPG (cooktop and BBQ) = $40 (no supply charge since I own the bottles)

Dishwasher = $9 (only used twice a week and it's connected to off-peak)

Dryer = $45 (also on off-peak and I never use the line)

General household electricity (lights, fridge, appliances etc) = $502 (includes the heater in the bathroom)

Electricity supply charge = $468

Solar generation = -$800

TOTAL = $1709 (after the $800 generated from solar).

Edit: Forgot to mention a few litres of petrol for the mower. Maybe $10 or so for that each year as it doesn't use much.

 

[Julia]

You probably should be comparing apples to apples; not everyone wants to have full year access to a heated pool. How much would it cost to do such a thing in the city?

Oh God, why did I ever open my mouth!
Where did I suggest everyone wants access to a heated pool???
Why do you assume it would be more expensive in a city?
Probably less, given that there is some competition for energy supply in a city.

I simply explained that my high electricity cost was largely accounted for by the fact that I am (like thousands of other people) running a pool, and further that in winter I am heating said pool. OK? Is that all right?

I didn't whine about what it cost.
I didn't suggest anyone else would be doing likewise.
I don't give a **** how other people spend their money and do not expect such other people to tell me how to spend mine and that I should be cutting down on electricity.

I just explained that running a pool is expensive in an apparently vain attempt to make clear that electricity in the regions is not necessarily more or less expensive than in a capital city.

This comment was in response to Eager's assertion that living in a regional centre is cheaper than living in a city. I had no other reason for raising my own costs


I don't know where it's more expensive.
I do not care where it is more expensive.
OK?

Perhaps we could have a discussion about who spends too much on holidays/cars/petrol/designer clothes/restaurants/gambling/alcohol etc etc?

Then we can all rip into one another about who spends what and whether they can actually justify it.

F*S! If I couldn't afford it I wouldn't be doing it. And I'm damned if I need to justify it to you or anyone else.

 

[craft]

Suffice to say that it says an awful lot about the situation we're in that practically any discussion of living expenses in Australia these days quickly turns to the subject of electricity. Hardly anyone would have even mentioned it a few years ago.

Ahhhh.. Electricity:

I live with three females. The hydro bill is emailed and directed to spam. The payment is direct debited without me seeing it. Family Harmony.

Still can’t work out though, how I get a cold shower with a 315lt hot water tank?

 

[Smurf1976]

I live with three females. The hydro bill is emailed and directed to spam. The payment is direct debited without me seeing it. Family Harmony.

Look on the positive side. They've put a nice pretty blonde woman on the front of Warm magazine this year and your huge power bills have helped pay for that. She's on pages 3, 8, 10 and 11 as well as the front.

 

[Smurf1976]

Perhaps we could have a discussion about who spends too much on holidays/cars/petrol/designer clothes/restaurants/gambling/alcohol etc etc?

Agreed. It's your business what you spend your money on and nobody else's.

That said, for non-financial reasons I wouldn't encourage anyone to spend too much on alcohol. A friend of mine has suffered some consequences recently, and it's not nice. Go easy on the bottle...

 

[johenmo]

to the original question... Boofis - it depends on what life(style) you want. You want to keep costs down? Don't have kids. Don't go on holidays. Be frugal on spending and invest wisely/well. For many people, expenditure always matches income. I remember reading here some time ago on a similar thread someone mentioning a relative couple with no kids who earned 200K+ yet had no savings, no house etc etc. Yet I know a couple who would prob earn 50- 60K between them with grown up kids & they are paying off a house etc. There's an element of truth in "it's not what you earn, it's what you don't spend".

City vs country - lived in both. depends on where you live. I'm in regional Vic atm - taking everything into account our experience is regional is cheaper (have lived in regional in 3 states), but we spend a fair chunk on heating in winter (coz it's %^&% cold). Our gas/electricity would be about 1400/1200 p.a. & the gas heating is on 24/7 for about 5 months. Don't drive as far as in the city. So if one's regional paradise is more expensive there is usually a reason - popular location, inept council expenditure, etc. Rates comparison is meaningless - depends on your house value. Our $2M house in the country will likely be more than the cheapest city house (and no, it's really $2M...).

As for heated pools... I'd have one in an instant if the yard could take it. But it'd need gutting and/or daily leaf removal. Too much work.

 

[Julia]

So if one's regional paradise is more expensive there is usually a reason - popular location, inept council expenditure, etc.

And that's the one which affects us here. There has just been a whole new Council elected but I won't be holding my breath in expectation of any reduction in rates.

Rates comparison is meaningless - depends on your house value. Our $2M house in the country will likely be more than the cheapest city house (and no, it's really $2M...).

This must vary by State. Here it's on the unimproved value of the land with a minimum that's unreasonably high for e.g. people in units.

As for heated pools... I'd have one in an instant if the yard could take it. But it'd need gutting and/or daily leaf removal. Too much work.

Not sure what you mean by 'gutting'? Gutting the yard?
You can have pools built to any size and shape these days. If I were doing it again I'd have a 2.5 metre wide lap pool rather than a larger area where you're keeping clean and heating about 25,000 litres that you don't actually use if just swimming up and down in a straight line.

Re leaves - modern automatic pool cleaners deal magnificently with cleaning everything on the pool floor, but I've not found anything so far that eliminates that hand scooping of surface leaves. There's a fortune to be made for someone who can devise such a mechanical item.

 

[johenmo]

And that's the one which affects us here. There has just been a whole new Council elected but I won't be holding my breath in expectation of any reduction in rates.

Wish you luck!

This must vary by State. Here it's on the unimproved value of the land with a minimum that's unreasonably high for e.g. people in units.

Ours takes into account the value of the improvemnt as well. It's 0.00406 x $"capital inmproved value". SO a 500K house would be $2030 pa + rubbish bins. We had a vacant block of land in another state years ago and the same applied (with a minimum, from memory). Saw similar when we lived overseas but they had one rate for the land value and one rate for the house. Anyway, the country generally has lower land values which pulls down the total value, so your adn pour expereince shows it really is hard to compare rates.

Not sure what you mean by 'gutting'? Gutting the yard?
You can have pools built to any size and shape these days. If I were doing it again I'd have a 2.5 metre wide lap pool rather than a larger area where you're keeping clean and heating about 25,000 litres that you don't actually use if just swimming up and down in a straight line.

Re leaves - modern automatic pool cleaners deal magnificently with cleaning everything on the pool floor, but I've not found anything so far that eliminates that hand scooping of surface leaves. There's a fortune to be made for someone who can devise such a mechanical item.

Our back yard is full of shrubs and trees so it feels quite secluded despite being in the 'burbs. To fit a lap pool (our preference) would mean ripping most of it out because it would look strange right in the middle of what we pretend is lawn and extending into a garden bed itself. And it needs to be enclosed to use it all year. Reminds me of a cartoon of 2 guys standing around a "pool" which was about 1m x 1m and one guy says "it doesn't look much but it's 30 metres deep!".

 

[Julia]

Reminds me of a cartoon of 2 guys standing around a "pool" which was about 1m x 1m and one guy says "it doesn't look much but it's 30 metres deep!".

 

[Value Hunter]

To the O.P. the best way to get ahead in your situation is both you and your wife live either separately with your parents (you with your parents and her with her parents) or together at your parents or her parents house. Don't take any vacations for 5 years and only eat at restaurants 4 times per year, don't buy clothes/shoes you do not need, try to avoid owning a car if possible, etc.

Both work 2 jobs (one full time job and one part-time job) for 5 years while doing all of the above. It needs sacrifice but if your parents will help you out and you can do all of the above for 5 years you will give yourself a good foundation, then you can move out buy a house and have kids.

And to answer your question if you and your wife each earn $75,000 a year before tax I think you could save a decent amount living a frugal lifestyle. $75,000 (per person) if you work one full time unskilled/entry level job and one part time entry level job is achievable. If you work a skilled job + an unskilled job there is no reason you can't each earn $100,000 per year after two years of work which is more than enough.

 

[RowanW]

I'm glad to see you seriously considering your future with a mind of how you want your life to go. Not a lot of young people will put that much effort into managing their finance accounts and decisions. That said, of course people want to earn more money if possible but at the end of the day I'd say that you can earn however much you want as long as you are happy with how you are living to be honest. It's a matter of knowing how to manage the money you earn. Follow your heart and do something for the passion of doing it instead.