****ASF Breaking News****

[Tisme]

Facebook now only worth US$510bn after the big dive

 

[SirRumpole]

Facebook now only worth US$510bn after the big dive

A snap !

I'll go halves with you.

 

[Value Collector]

Bring back tariffs to support OUR COUNTRY!

Trade restrictions or penalties are only good for the owners and workers in businesses which are able to gain a monopoly or advantage in a market due to the regulations.

for example,

Trumps tariffs on steel will be good for Local steel mills in the USA, because it allows them to charge their fellow countrymen a higher price than they other wise would have with free competition, but that extra gain the steel producers make comes at the expense of their fellow country men, the consumers.

add, to that the pain that will be felt by their fellow country men that feel the retribution of the revenge tariffs, and the net affect is its bad for most, good for the chosen few whose industry gets a government enforced monopoly.

 

[SirRumpole]

I reckon tariffs should be based on the difference between our wage rates and the country we are competing with, eg if a country has half the median wage rate as ours, then the tariffs should be twice as much as a country with the same wage rates as ours.

This would provide a more level playing field than single tariifs applying to all countries and may encourage the countries that exploit their workers to pay them more.

 

[tech/a]

Yep I get it.

But if you want to maintain a life style and
sure you'll be paying more but you'll have
much better employment. You'll have industries
sticking around that would have other wise went broke.

As long as everyone is in the same boat then competition will be
restricted to what is available.
Id rather the down side of more expense than being un employed and seeing
businesses shut down that are Aussi home grown
Or Farmers forced off the land and we end up greater importers with a work force
that cant find a job.

Pros and cons but you cant go past the booming US economy.
Its in your face.
The Americans I know are buzzing with pride and anticipation
about time Aussi's did the same.

 

[tech/a]

I reckon tariffs should be based on the difference between our wage rates and the country we are competing with, eg if a country has half the median wage rate as ours, then the tariffs should be twice as much as a country with the same wage rates as ours.

This would provide a more level playing field than single tariifs applying to all countries and may encourage the countries that exploit their workers to pay them more.

Sound thoughts
Not enough outside of the square thinking I'm afraid.

 

[Value Collector]

I reckon tariffs should be based on the difference between our wage rates and the country we are competing with, eg if a country has half the median wage rate as ours, then the tariffs should be twice as much as a country with the same wage rates as ours.

This would provide a more level playing field than single tariifs applying to all countries and may encourage the countries that exploit their workers to pay them more.

All you are doing then is propping up industries which we are not competitive in, which will draw capital and labour away from industries which we might have natural competitive advantages in.

1, So you end up forcing the local consumers to pay a higher price for the goods than they would other wise have to.

2, You take away incentives to local industries to become more competitive naturally.

3, you incentivise investors to put money into industries we are not naturally competitive in, instead of seeking other investments where we may develop good advantages naturally.

 

[Value Collector]

Id rather the down side of more expense than being un employed and seeing

I think the added cost across the whole population is too large compared to the few extra employees at the protected industries.

 

[PZ99]

Can't afford pride for $8 an hour of yankee money in this country. Couldn't even buy a fart with that income. Cost of living and taxes are the real barriers. But workers are the easy targets.

 

[tech/a]

All you are doing then is propping up industries which we are not competitive in, which will draw capital and labour away from industries which we might have natural competitive advantages in.

That's a bloody long list.
The list of industries not affected would be way shorter.

1, So you end up forcing the local consumers to pay a higher price for the goods than they would other wise have to.

With the benefit of stronger business. Stronger employment conditions, Far less un employment benefits, longer term employment means more in super funds. Healthy economy health work force less stress suicides and mental health issues. Increased investment opportunity.

2, You take away incentives to local industries to become more competitive naturally.

Definitely not. You just level the field ---competition will still be alive and well.

3, you incentivise investors to put money into industries we are not naturally competitive in, instead of seeking other investments where we may develop good advantages naturally.

Its not a problem in fact its better if I know the business I'm going to invest in isn't going to be cut off at the knees by some import! Be that a business or a product.
Your happy then to see Woollies/Coles and our produce producers crippled by over seas companies that don't have to play by any rules. To compete we must turn our backs on our fellow Aussi's for the sake of having our business survive! Take it all off shore (Hills for example).

These good advantages naturally can you name some?

 

[tech/a]

Can't afford pride for $8 an hour of yankee money in this country. Couldn't even buy a fart with that income. Cost of living and taxes are the real barriers. But workers are the easy targets.

Below is as at 2016 For the White and Blue collar workers.

 

[McLovin]

I reckon tariffs should be based on the difference between our wage rates and the country we are competing with, eg if a country has half the median wage rate as ours, then the tariffs should be twice as much as a country with the same wage rates as ours.

So we all just end up paying to support cr@ppy industries? That worked a treat in post-war Australia. Low growth, low real wages, low productivity, an economy prone to recession and external shock.

Automation kills jobs not cheaper labour. Australian manufacturing never had, and likely never would, the scale and the supply chain to compete in the big manufacturing industries unless we add another 50m people or so to the population.

If you want a massive drop in standard of living then put up those 1970 style tariff walls that left Australia as an industrial graveyard. I'm sure my kids will love their job at the Dunlop Volley factory out the back of Alexandria.

 

[tech/a]

So crappy lets see.
Orange ,apricot,etc producers.
Vehical producers.
Ship building
Steel production
All associated related building products.
If I had time I could real off more.

Automation kills jobs not cheaper labour. Australian manufacturing never had, and likely never would, the scale and the supply chain to compete in the big manufacturing industries.

Really
Pay all workers over seas what we pay here and see how competitive we become.

If you want a massive drop in standard of living then put up those 1970 style tariff walls that left Australia as an industrial graveyard

The alternative is the expense of our own work force and people.
UK woke up to it Brexit
The US have woken up to it.
Wakey wakey.

 

[McLovin]

The alternative is the expense of our own work force and people.
UK woke up to it Brexit
The US have woken up to it.
Wakey wakey.

Yeah wakey, wakey. Take a look around. You live in one of the richest countries on earth with the highest standard of living, one of the highest wages on earth, the highest minimum wage, and your solution to this "problem" is go back to an economic system that was an abysmal failure.

F**k me.



(ETA Honourable mention for managing to lump Britain leaving the most tariff protected bloc in the western world as a snub to free trade. That takes some serious mental gymnastics!)

 

[PZ99]

Below is as at 2016 For the White and Blue collar workers.


View attachment 88584

View attachment 88585

Couldn't care about average incomes for doctors. Averages get distorted by extremes and other anomalies.

Minimum wages range from $7.25 to $10 an hour in most states. Walmart employees were getting $9 an hour in that year. Woollies/Coles get more. And get nearly nothing after taxes and living costs.

Tax is the problem - and the Govt knows it, hence their polices.

 

[SirRumpole]

So we all just end up paying to support cr@ppy industries? That worked a treat in post-war Australia. Low growth, low real wages, low productivity, an economy prone to recession and external shock.

An external shock will come when countries that we depend on for exports can't sustain their own economies , stop buying from us and still expect us to buy from them with our much depleted revenue.

 

[McLovin]

An external shock will come when countries that we depend on for exports can't sustain their own economies , stop buying from us and still expect us to buy from them with our much depleted revenue.

Sure it's always a possibility. But Australia used to lurch from boom to bust every few years. Twenty six years of economic growth and expansion in real wages (not all equally) mean nothing to the glass half full camp. An open productive economy, and a floating dollar, can absorb shocks far better than the moribund economy Australia used to have. Excuse me if I don't get misty eyed about it and long for its return.

 

[SirRumpole]

Sure it's always a possibility. But Australia used to lurch from boom to bust every few years. Twenty six years of economic growth and expansion in real wages (not all equally) mean nothing to the glass half full camp. An open productive economy, and a floating dollar, can absorb shocks far better than the moribund economy Australia used to have. Excuse me if I don't get misty eyed about it and long for its return.

Shocks generally come from external factors.

An economy that is more internally self reliant need not worry as much what happens elsewhere if it can sustain itself.

 

[tech/a]

Dick Smith woke up to it.

F**K me

Is that you Sandy!

 

[Value Collector]

That's a bloody long list.
The list of industries not affected would be way shorter.



With the benefit of stronger business. Stronger employment conditions, Far less un employment benefits, longer term employment means more in super funds. Healthy economy health work force less stress suicides and mental health issues. Increased investment opportunity.



Definitely not. You just level the field ---competition will still be alive and well.



Its not a problem in fact its better if I know the business I'm going to invest in isn't going to be cut off at the knees by some import! Be that a business or a product.
Your happy then to see Woollies/Coles and our produce producers crippled by over seas companies that don't have to play by any rules. To compete we must turn our backs on our fellow Aussi's for the sake of having our business survive! Take it all off shore (Hills for example).

These good advantages naturally can you name some?

Lets say you put a tariff on steel.

The only people that benefit are the steel mill owners and workers, because they get to sell their goods at a higher price than they other wise would.

However, the benefit the steel mill gets is at the expense of every person / Industry consuming that steel.

At best its a Zero sum game, at worst its negative.

Suddenly you have Australian vegetable packing Companies buying steel cans at higher prices than their, New Zealand competitors and so they can't pack the Corn, Beetroot, Beans etc etc as cheaply, So you can have whole regions depressed.

I know you think its good, but thats because you are over simplifying it, like anything it is not that easy.

Tariffs are for the benefit of the protected industries profits and the government, not the rest of us.