ARG - Argo Investments
- Thread starter TjamesX
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Any thoughts on this stock lately?
Have had someone p@#$ng in my ear the other night about it.
Have had someone p@#$ng in my ear the other night about it.
As a retiree I hold this and AFI. Both pay just under 4% FF dividends. I think most consider them defensive and "relatively" safe. Certainly their charts are not as bad as many others. I wonder when [and if] the market starts to move forward more strongly whether they'll keep pace with many individual stocks.
I'm happy with them for now and have experienced some growth with both. Nothing astronomical of course but acceptable. A year ago ARG was about $5.75. Today it is $7.17. [with dividends in between]. And yet it went down a tad today in a rising market.
Depends on your risk profile I suspect.
I stopped buying both AFI and ARG in late 2012. Just felt that they were getting a little ahead of my buying comfort zone.
Same with the banks but that was in early 2012.
Apart from dabbling in a couple of SPPs and Entitlement offers and topping up WHF earlier this year, I am sitting and building up cash with dividends. There is no hurry.
Same with the banks but that was in early 2012.
Apart from dabbling in a couple of SPPs and Entitlement offers and topping up WHF earlier this year, I am sitting and building up cash with dividends. There is no hurry.
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Highest close today ($7.29) since June 2008. However it did hit an intra-day high of $7.37.
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Hi
I am totally new to ASF and Joe has been very tolerant with errors I made in registering. I am a conservative investor and retired.
My recent activity has been to focus on companies like Arg and Afi. This might sound boring to younger people.
I have put much smaller portions of my Super into companies such as GEM, NEA and HSN.
I have avoided the resource sector, such as BHP.
My reasoning, perhaps flawed, is that companies like ARG will "cover" me if the big companies like BHP and CBA suddenly take off.
I am over 65 but my question is whether I am being TOO conservative?
Any thoughts will he appreciated.
I am totally new to ASF and Joe has been very tolerant with errors I made in registering. I am a conservative investor and retired.
My recent activity has been to focus on companies like Arg and Afi. This might sound boring to younger people.
I have put much smaller portions of my Super into companies such as GEM, NEA and HSN.
I have avoided the resource sector, such as BHP.
My reasoning, perhaps flawed, is that companies like ARG will "cover" me if the big companies like BHP and CBA suddenly take off.
I am over 65 but my question is whether I am being TOO conservative?
Any thoughts will he appreciated.
No one can really give you this information. We would need to know so much more about you and your personal circumstances. If you're really stuck, you could consider seeing an experienced financial planner. Nick Radge may be able to help you, at the somewhat steep cost of $330 an hour though (but perhaps this is normal for experienced and licensed professionals). I don't know of any other licensed financial professionals. I am sure there are others around.
As Valued says, nobody here can offer advice. However, some general comments can safely be made
Another term for what you're suggesting is "core and satellite" - a big chunk of your stuff in a solid LIC or a broad-based ETF, supplemented with some specific investment plays. The specific plays might be to tilt your overall portfolio either toward or away from a particular sector, or to increase yield, or just because you enjoy it.
A key thing to consider with "core and satellite" is what sort of split-up you employ. If it's 99% core and 1% satellite, then the extra effort of running the satellites almost certainly isn't worth it (unless you're doing it for recreational purposes). If it's 50:50, then you're possibly not getting enough "ballasting" effect from your core. Personal choice.
With pretty much any managed product, you're going to be hitching your wagon to large swathes of BHP and the banks. When you look at all the dividend dollars paid out annually in the ASX100, 46% of them come from the four banks and BHP. Our market is very much dominated by the big guys.
LICs like ARG and AFI are really interesting. They tend to provide more franking and slightly higher yield than ETFs like STW, and I find the company structure makes the paperwork at the end of the year more straightforward (but I'm a fairly simpleminded soul).
But the really interesting bit is to look at the historical dividend in cents per share (not yield%), and see if you can spot the effect of the GFC - you pretty much can't. ARG, AFI and to a lesser extent, MLT are leviathans with lots of inertia and (thanks to the company structure) the ability to retain earnings. They seem well aware that their shareholders value stability and predictability, and they seem to do a damn good job in smoothing out the bumps in the road, albeit at the expense of potentially missing out on dramatic upside.
Many thanks for all of the above comments which I am absorbing... Or trying to anyway.
From experience I would prefer not to go to a high fee charging advisor as I have found that the fees are charged whether the recommended share or portfolio goes up or down. At the same time I am sure many are very ethical and work hard to help others.
My conservative portfolio is doing ok right now but I certainly have much to learn.
Thank you again.
From experience I would prefer not to go to a high fee charging advisor as I have found that the fees are charged whether the recommended share or portfolio goes up or down. At the same time I am sure many are very ethical and work hard to help others.
My conservative portfolio is doing ok right now but I certainly have much to learn.
Thank you again.
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Like others have suggested above, whether you're being too conservative depends on your circumstances. If your AFI and ARG shares are providing you with sufficient income, and if holding riskier shares will continually stress you out or things are tight and you simply can't afford to lose much of your capital, then stick with being conservative. Your logic re not holding individual blue chips when you already hold them via LICs sounds fine to me, unless you have a great reason for thinking that a particular stock will perform well and you may want to increase your holding in that particular stock. These days I mostly just hold LICs as I don't have a lot of time to research individual stocks myself and keep on top of all of them all of the time, so I leave it to the 'experts' at the LICs to do it for me, its much easier and safer to 'set & forget' that way. I do research the LICs themselves though before buying into them.
Out of the biggest 3 LICs (AFI, ARG and MLT) I like ARG at the moment as they are a bit more diversified (they only hold around 20% of their portfolio in the big 4 banks while AFI and MLT hold over 30% in the big 4 banks). ARG is trading at a lower premium to NTA than AFI at the moment too. I also like BKI which is another big reasonably conservative LIC that invests in blue chip shares but have a slightly higher dividend yield.
If you want a bit more risk/return in your portfolio but still want a high amount of diversification with just a few stocks then you can look at other LICs like PMC, MFF or TGG that invest primarily in overseas stocks; or LICs like WAM & WAX that specialise in small/medium size companies. For a bit more risk you can look at LICs like ALF and DJW (though this one is at a really high premium to NTA right now) who also deal in options to increase returns.
The good thing about owning a few LICs rather than just one or two is that you spread your risk around a bit more, get exposure to even more different types of stocks, and get the opportunity to take part in more rights issues and share purchase plans which allow you to buy more shares at a discount. Some of the smaller ones also sometimes issue bonus options too.
AFI's price has risen a lot compared to NTA over the last few months and is has been trading at a fair premium (recently was around 10%), while ARG has been trading at a slight discount to NTA until just recently, so maybe its price is a little stickier. Those looking at AFI may be looking at the premium & thinking ARG might be better value now. I notice Scott Pape (The Barefoot Investor) has just rated ARG as a strong buy in his free weekly email, so there may be a bit of demand resulting from that too.
If you are retired, you might like to spend some time reading some books. Don't ask us whether you're too conservative, read and find out for yourself! The best person to give you advice is you. The reason people hire professionals is that they are unwilling or due to time constraints/opportunity cost unable to help themselves. If you have the time, it's best to learn yourself and think for yourself.
There is no greater freedom than knowing that you are right and the majority is wrong.
There is no greater freedom than knowing that you are right and the majority is wrong.
Yes I am reading and learning.... Hence why I joined ASF. Time is a problem however. And I have no issues with being with the majority, particularly if the majority is right. I also feel "free".
Scanning through many threads I have developed an impression. It seems that many, certainly not all, ASF contributors claim to be particularly successful even though their investment strategies may vary greatly. It is not surprising that the paths are quite diverse.
Thank you everyone for your comments which I am taking on board. At the moment I am at a stage where some informed trading suits.
Good post. I would add to also consider interval vs external management. In my experience, external management means much higher fees and a manager whose interests are not aligned with your own.
The ASX has quite a nice list at http://www.asx.com.au/products/etf/managed-funds-etp-product-list.htm - click on the "LICs and Trusts" tab.
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A bit too early to call whether its a good offer just yet. The closing date for the offer is March 24th. Only around then will we really be able to tell whether its a good offer or not, depending on where the share price and rough estimate of NTA are at at that point in time.