Are you a loser?....Trading Psychology

kgee · 21 May 2006

Just a footnote from my last post
If anybody is interested in addictions the movie "what the bleep do we know"
is a very interesting watch...personally the movie was a little too new age in its orientation for me to reccomend in whole; but it's interviews with scientist's is very engaging

Happy Profits! · 24 May 2006

Yes, I am currently a loser

Oh really, kgee? Thanks for that info...I had seen the ads in the papers but had always assumed that it was a docu re: physics/science. Guess the alphas and the betas on the posters threw me a red herring.

happytrader said:
...Obviously if that word can conjure up that sort of emotion it obviously holds all sorts of negative connotations. I prefer that word safely..

Ditto. I for one don't have negative emotions towards disciplined people or the attainment/development of discipline. In fact, I'm full of admiration. It's just that...I don't have the discipline...to be disciplined...yet (sorry, can't find a better way to describe it).

Anyway, just making this post relevant to the thread - haha sob , I guess I am still a loser in trading psychology. Bought a zinc miner, nickel miner and an iron miner about a week and a half ago...RIGHT before the 'correction' (fingers crossed ). Down about 48.5% so far & sliding.

Hope the rest of you have better stock-picking skills and/or damage-control skills

money tree · 24 May 2006

will be a fair few "losers" around by now after the market tanked.

Seems this thread was well timed. Hope it did somebody good......

money tree · 20 July 2006

Re: Are you a loser?

money tree said:
...these 35 or so traders witnessed my FX live calls and trades resulting in a 200% increase to my account in that small period.

make that 400% now.

poor me, Im such a loser

Wysiwyg · 11 February 2008

money tree said:
So what does all this teach me?

It teaches me that I must remove emotion from trading completely. Learn not to celebrate a win, nor moarn a loss. Make entries and exits based on logic, not gut feel. Emotion is my enemy. Understand that adrenaline dissolves logic, leading to failure. Enter a trade only when there is a justifiable reason other than "Im bored" or "I need $$$". Set stops immediately and walk away. When in profit, dont sell unless you get a sell signal.

Firstly .....

The nervous system of every living thing is but a bundle of predispositions to react in particular ways upon the contact of particular features of the environment.

If one is a normal? human being then emotion is the reaction to perception of events,circumstances etc.I agree that the reaction can be controlled after the emotion is felt or better still, pre-programmed for a neutral response to events/circumstances etc.

This is not easy though.We are taught to react to events/circumstances firstly by our parents and then by other people, even tv or cinema we come in contact with.These reactions (emotion) become ingrained,may run into hundreds, and can be triggered by similar events/circumstances in the future.

So unless one has an understanding of what triggers these emotions then one will keep reacting to the same trigger. Emotion is easily attached to money (especially loss) and everyday decisions are made emotionally involving money.

Contrarily,fear of loss and reaction to such is excellent for maintaining finances if the perception is right.

I`m off to see ol` mate Hindsight to see how my perception is.

Wysiwyg · 17 July 2008

From the present bear run i have learned alot more about the game and have some underlying blocks that sabotage my trading.These underlying saboteurs are very debilitating for me.Any similar experiences?

1) I was taught not to be selfish or greedy so when it comes to taking profit I sell way to soon (that amount is enough) and miss a substantial section of the move.
2) I tend not to panic on bad news (plug and abandons, profit downgrades, lower expectations etc.) and while others are exiting i lag behind believing the news isn`t that bad and the stock will recover.Eventually exiting after the stock has declined even more.
3) I feel when i buy a stock that i am right.I have done my homework and believe the company to have strong prospects.As the stock declines I still believe I`m right and that everyone is crazy selling out.So I hold.
4) Failing to act on the warning signs.

These saboteurs are like fine filters of the input to my decision making.They filter out the reality of what is happening.

I give myself a C + :- easily distracted and can do better.

MichaelD · 18 July 2008

Wysiwyg said:
From the present bear run i have learned alot more about the game and have some underlying blocks that sabotage my trading.

Well recognised. Now - what are you doing about what you have discovered?

mr_delta · 18 July 2008

Wysiwyg said:
From the present bear run i have learned alot more about the game and have some underlying blocks that sabotage my trading.These underlying saboteurs are very debilitating for me.Any similar experiences?

1) I was taught not to be selfish or greedy so when it comes to taking profit I sell way to soon (that amount is enough) and miss a substantial section of the move.
2) I tend not to panic on bad news (plug and abandons, profit downgrades, lower expectations etc.) and while others are exiting i lag behind believing the news isn`t that bad and the stock will recover.Eventually exiting after the stock has declined even more.
3) I feel when i buy a stock that i am right.I have done my homework and believe the company to have strong prospects.As the stock declines I still believe I`m right and that everyone is crazy selling out.So I hold.
4) Failing to act on the warning signs.

These saboteurs are like fine filters of the input to my decision making.They filter out the reality of what is happening.

I give myself a C + :- easily distracted and can do better.

Wysiwyg,

If I changed your name from this post and put in my name, it would still mean the same for me...it looked like I was reading a post by me (but I had not written that, you had)...I am totally freaked out with your post man....my exact sentiments...

Trader Paul · 18 July 2008

Hi Wysiwyg,

Some thoughts, that may help you to understand those filters, better .....

have a great weekend

paul

=====

Wysiwyg said:
From the present bear run i have learned alot more about the game and have some underlying blocks that sabotage my trading.These underlying saboteurs are very debilitating for me.Any similar experiences?

1) I was taught not to be selfish or greedy so when it comes to taking profit I sell way to soon (that amount is enough) and miss a substantial section of the move.

.... some traders overcome this error by trading to either price or time targets,
according to their analysis of the stock ... but, it does take some
SELF DISCIPLINE to hold on for longer, but don't let a profit turn
into a loss ..... it's better to take a small profit, than none at all .....
.... and if you are too slow taking a profit, sometimes your stop loss
will be triggered, anyway.

2) I tend not to panic on bad news (plug and abandons, profit downgrades, lower expectations etc.) and while others are exiting i lag behind believing the news isn`t that bad and the stock will recover.Eventually exiting after the stock has declined even more.

..... here, it's your ego taking over ... you would rather hold on, in the
hope of eventually being proven right in taking your original position,
than take a small loss.

3) I feel when i buy a stock that i am right.I have done my homework and believe the company to have strong prospects.As the stock declines I still believe I`m right and that everyone is crazy selling out.So I hold.

... that's your ego talking again .... !~!

..... ANY market can stay irrational (in your eyes) for a lot longer,
than you can endure the pain of a losing trade !~!

Having the DISCIPLINE to execute price or time stops will save you
a lot of emotional pain and enable you to put that trade behind you
and get on with the NEXT trade.

4) Failing to act on the warning signs.

... just leave your ego at the door and develop the DISCIPLINE to
trade, STRICTLY in accordance with your trading plan ... !~!
(assuming that you have one, of course).

These saboteurs are like fine filters of the input to my decision making.They filter out the reality of what is happening.

I give myself a C + :- easily distracted and can do better.

Wysiwyg · 19 July 2008

MichaelD said:
Well recognised. Now - what are you doing about what you have discovered?

Hi, as Paul pointed out it is mainly my ego thing in which I find it difficult to accept all trades that go against me.Presently reading Van Tharps Trade your way to Financial Freedom and there is a chapter devoted to `Setting your own Objectives` part 1 `Self Assessment`.I took the time to write down my answers to the questions (even that was a wrestle) this is when I started digging into where I am going wrong.
Although there is a great deal of literature on share trading, how difficult is it to cut losses early and let winners run.Time to introduce some stringent guidelines and adhere to them.Stop loss ... no questions asked and no backchat.

Trader Paul said:
Hi Wysiwyg,
Some thoughts, that may help you to understand those filters, better .....
have a great weekend
paul

=====

Thank you Paul.

mr_delta said:
Wysiwyg,

If I changed your name from this post and put in my name, it would still mean the same for me...it looked like I was reading a post by me (but I had not written that, you had)...I am totally freaked out with your post man....my exact sentiments...

Writing reasons down was way better than having them spinning around upstairs.Time to make some changes, though discipline isn`t my middle name.

hangseng · 19 July 2008

Re: Are you a loser?

=tech/a

I have one of my methods traded live for the last 4 yrs--every trade--we have seen $30000 turned into $347000

Are you a better trader than me? Absolutely!

I want your method please

I am still doing well considering market conditions, but nothing to that extent (yet).

chimp · 20 July 2008

Wysiwyg said:
From the present bear run i have learned alot more about the game and have some underlying blocks that sabotage my trading.These underlying saboteurs are very debilitating for me.Any similar experiences?

1) I was taught not to be selfish or greedy so when it comes to taking profit I sell way to soon (that amount is enough) and miss a substantial section of the move.
2) I tend not to panic on bad news (plug and abandons, profit downgrades, lower expectations etc.) and while others are exiting i lag behind believing the news isn`t that bad and the stock will recover.Eventually exiting after the stock has declined even more.
3) I feel when i buy a stock that i am right.I have done my homework and believe the company to have strong prospects.As the stock declines I still believe I`m right and that everyone is crazy selling out.So I hold.
4) Failing to act on the warning signs.

These saboteurs are like fine filters of the input to my decision making.They filter out the reality of what is happening.

I give myself a C + :- easily distracted and can do better.

Hahaha Wysi, I completely relate to the points - very well summarised!
Indeed I've been in this market for 14 months now and experieced the small bears....needless to say. - I guess i have committed every one of them on your list.

I often think if i was better discipline and sticked to the trading methods set up by others, perhaps I'd even make some money in the market.

tech/a · 21 July 2008

Re: Are you a loser?

hangseng said:
I want your method please

You or anyone else can have it.
It's all here fully disclosed and FREE.
http://www.thechartist.com.au/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=postlist&Board=53&page=1

You'll need to register and thats FREE.
Now $439,000

MichaelD · 21 July 2008

Re: Are you a loser?

tech/a said:
You'll need to register

But I don't want to read all of that. That's too much work. I don't want to do the work. I just want the profits. I deserve the profits. The markets OWE me.

nizar · 21 July 2008

Re: Are you a loser?

MichaelD said:
But I don't want to read all of that. That's too much work. I don't want to do the work. I just want the profits. I deserve the profits. The markets OWE me.

Haha reminds me of a mate of mine.

I was trying to inspire this guy to get involved in trading, so I told him the Turtle story and then about the book Curtis Faith released last year.
And he goes to me, so the EXACT system is in the book?
And Im like, yeah, all the details BUT keep in mind that they were trading in 1983 and as such the exact same system may not work as well as it once did.
And he turned back at me and said, well in that case, whats the point of reading the book then?!

Too many people are in the same boat as my mate, after a free ride.

Wysiwyg · 21 July 2008

Re: Are you a loser?

I think you under done yourself tech/a.A $30000 purchase @ 60c of PDN (probably could have got them for less) would have been 50000 shares.At the top or thereabouts you would have raked the kitty at over $500,000.Bull runs are great aren`t they???

tech/a said:
Another pullback opportunity(Missed by myself)

tech/a · 22 July 2008

Yes

Have always found hindsite analysis the most profitable.

Are you a loser?....Trading Psychology

kgee

Happy Profits!

Kung Fu Kid

money tree

money tree

Wysiwyg

Everyone wants money

Wysiwyg

Everyone wants money

MichaelD

Not fooled by randomness

mr_delta

Trader Paul

Wysiwyg

Everyone wants money

hangseng

Gong Xi Fa Cai

chimp

tech/a

No Ordinary Duck

MichaelD

Not fooled by randomness

nizar

Wysiwyg

Everyone wants money

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