Are rents too low?

[wayneL]

Well I've got a mate who has a degree as well, but now he's at Murin Murin as the H&S staffy on FIFO and raping it in. Whats youre point?.....you can't always have youre cake and eat it!.

Sure their not really his skills but who cares. Its a bit like the arguement of some wheat and sheep farmers,making no money but not prepared to change their ways......., doh.

Freeball,

I used to think like you. Now I am more experienced. That's not a put down in any way, but you see things as you go along.

Don't be too hard hearted because you're doing well.

Cheers

 

[Freeballinginawetsuit]

In principle I strongly agree, in the real world, things can be very different as I detailed in the above post. In the real world, folks may have extraneous circumstances which can prevent them moving to greener pastures. (family considerations, intellect, physicality, race, disability etc etc etc)

For instance, I was injured in my last occupation that makes any sort of real physical work impossible, and I've always worked in very physical roles. I'm just lucky enough that my brain works in a way that makes other things possible.

Well their are probably many fields that would be just up youre alley, or maybe financially youre well balanced....the point was based at those who arent financially balanced!.

Disability certainly.......as for the rest they can be overcome if you have a desire and display a will.

The demands their for those who have something to offer........even the most simpliest of offerings. Problem is some aren't even capable of that!.

 

[Smurf1976]

Could the first one 1988 have had anything to do with Bob Hawke's betrayal to the union movement, hence setting the scence for lower wages and conditions for employees ---- hence lower building costs -- with lower relative building costs the only way out was increased land values.

The second one 200? when these changes started to take effect, with falling relative building costs the only way out was again to increase land values.

With John Howard's new industrial laws the same cycle is now inevitable.


Also interesting that the three nations involved in the Iraq slaughter are the same three nations where land values have skyrocketed --- govt passing on debt to the public sector? --- apparently none of this has occured in Europe.

Used to be a economic theory that as the wealth of a nation becomes concertrated the outcome is always recession and possible depression.
Looks like Keating may have been right "Banana Republic" here we come.


Cheers

Agreed about what happens when wealth becomes too concentrated. I think it was Henry Ford who noted that the best way to boost his (at that time) new business manufacturing cars was to double the pay of every worker. That way the workers could all afford to buy one of the company's cars and in doing so created pressure on other employers to also raise wages such that their employees could also afford to buy one. I would be hard to argue that his strategy was anything other than brilliantly successful.

As for housing, I'd like to know why, exactly, the building industry (land clearing through to house completion) has collectively become so much LESS efficient in recent years.

A decade ago 3 years wages bought a generic house in the suburbs. Something that, in the outer suburbs at least, can be pumped out just like cars out of a factory. And yet today it takes 6 - 7 years wages to buy an idendical house.

Someone, somewhere, seems to be making an incredibly large profit out of all of this. Nothing "wrong" with that but I'd be interested to know why, exactly, the cost of building has increased so much more than the price of virtually anything else.

I suspect all those "economic rationalism" outsourcings and privatisations of the 1990's has a lot to do with it. Government and the bigger companies traditionally turned out thousands of apprentices nationally each year. But it just doesn't happen on that scale anymore with the focus on minimising cost no matter what the consequences. Hence not enough builders and other tradespeople and far higher prices for their work.

I find it rather absurd that building costs more than double and few say anything about it. And yet someone works out how to save 5% on the cost of anything else and the politicans come forth with a radical plan to implement it without delay.

It's seen as so important to save maybe $500 on airfares or $200 a year on phone bills that we've radically restructured entire industries to achieve it. Petrol costs perhaps $2000 a year and we've had dozens of inquiries into the price of petrol. We've got the ACCC running around threatening anyone who even thinks of ripping off the consumer.

And yet the cost of building a house goes up 100% more than official inflation, costing consumers far more than they'd ever spend on airfares, phone bills and petrol combined, and nobody even bothers to find out why it has increased so much. Something ain't right here...

 

[Smurf1976]

If you have skills or a work ethic that employers seek (and their are plenty seeking ATM) youre in a good market to be remunerated accordingly.....simple supply/demand scenario.

One thing I've noticed over the past couple of years is a marked decline in the general willingness of people to take on additional work, for example paid overtime.

Why? Because only those old enough to remember past recessions or with an interest in economics have even the slightest concern that maybe, just maybe, they ought to be making $ while the economic sun is shining.

Everywhere you go, most believe the boom will go on forever and are less motivated to work as a consequence of that view.

 

[robandcoll]

It does really get down to market/demand/ and ofcourse the last one, up selling byReal Institutes. Got out of property about 6 months ago (Perth). The upsell and was ridiculous. For a 4 x 2 70Kms out of Perth $500,000. Apartments in that area now trying to sell for $1.2 million. ( They arent though) This week adverts in The Western Australian News, the WA Real Estate Institute stating the lack of land is causing this spike and they are blaming the government. (There is plenty of blocks available) People believe what they read. There will be alot of poeple in WA who will get hurt over the next year or 2 because they have brought on a frenzy.

I am the vulture

 

[Julia]

Don't be too hard hearted because you're doing well.

Cheers

That's a really good reminder to us all. When we are doing OK, we can so easily assume a sense of superiority and be critical of others who are still finding their way.

Thanks, Wayne.

Julia

 

[Freeballinginawetsuit]

That's a really good reminder to us all. When we are doing OK, we can so easily assume a sense of superiority and be critical of others who are still finding their way.

Thanks, Wayne.

Julia

I relate to youre musings Julia, but the fact of the matter is I have hung my head out a few times this year and been stung by those finding their way.

"Like subbing a guys wages, only to find out he hasn't been at work for a week."

Excuse me while I go back to eating some peaches and cream .

 

[dubiousinfo]

Agreed about what happens when wealth becomes too concentrated. I think it was Henry Ford who noted that the best way to boost his (at that time) new business manufacturing cars was to double the pay of every worker. That way the workers could all afford to buy one of the company's cars and in doing so created pressure on other employers to also raise wages such that their employees could also afford to buy one. I would be hard to argue that his strategy was anything other than brilliantly successful.

As for housing, I'd like to know why, exactly, the building industry (land clearing through to house completion) has collectively become so much LESS efficient in recent years.

A decade ago 3 years wages bought a generic house in the suburbs. Something that, in the outer suburbs at least, can be pumped out just like cars out of a factory. And yet today it takes 6 - 7 years wages to buy an idendical house.

Someone, somewhere, seems to be making an incredibly large profit out of all of this. Nothing "wrong" with that but I'd be interested to know why, exactly, the cost of building has increased so much more than the price of virtually anything else.

I suspect all those "economic rationalism" outsourcings and privatisations of the 1990's has a lot to do with it. Government and the bigger companies traditionally turned out thousands of apprentices nationally each year. But it just doesn't happen on that scale anymore with the focus on minimising cost no matter what the consequences. Hence not enough builders and other tradespeople and far higher prices for their work.

I find it rather absurd that building costs more than double and few say anything about it. And yet someone works out how to save 5% on the cost of anything else and the politicans come forth with a radical plan to implement it without delay.

It's seen as so important to save maybe $500 on airfares or $200 a year on phone bills that we've radically restructured entire industries to achieve it. Petrol costs perhaps $2000 a year and we've had dozens of inquiries into the price of petrol. We've got the ACCC running around threatening anyone who even thinks of ripping off the consumer.

And yet the cost of building a house goes up 100% more than official inflation, costing consumers far more than they'd ever spend on airfares, phone bills and petrol combined, and nobody even bothers to find out why it has increased so much. Something ain't right here...

The actual cost of building hasn't increased that much above inflation and part of that increase is due to increased insurance and regulation compliance costs.

Wages within the industry have tracked inflation and builders margins have not moved significantly. In percentage terms they are similar to what they have traditionally been.

The biggest increase in the cost of housing is the land content.

 

[wayneL]

I relate to youre musings Julia, but the fact of the matter is I have hung my head out a few times this year and been stung by those finding their way.

"Like subbing a guys wages, only to find out he hasn't been at work for a week."

Excuse me while I go back to eating some peaches and cream .

Several times in your posts you allude to your success in life/wealth. It seems to be important to you that people know this. It's probably somewhat important to most of us, but I think it says something. I have suggested books on this topic elsewhere, but I digress...

I don't think a lack of moral fibre is exclusive to the "lower classes". (a term I despise, but can't think of a different term) I have been privy to some of the most diabolical financial immorality you can even think of from folks who "have made it"

Lack of success does not imply virtue in the same way that success does not imply lack of virtue. (and visa versa) Trust must be earned in any station in life... another lesson one learns as they go along.

Excuse me while I go back to my Lao Tzu.

The truth isn't flashy.
Flashy words aren't true.

Educated people
aren't always smart.
Smart people
don't always have an education.

Good people don't argue.
People who argue aren't good.

The Masters don't hang on to things.
They're always doing something
for other people,
so they always have more to give.
They give away
whatever they have,
so what they have is worth more.

If you want to get right with Tao,
help other people, don't hurt them.
The Masters always work with people,
never against them.

****notes part on arguing

 

[Freeballinginawetsuit]

Several times in your posts you allude to your success in life/wealth. It seems to be important to you that people know this. It's probably somewhat important to most of us, but I think it says something. I have suggested books on this topic elsewhere, but I digress...



Actually Wayne the quote 'Peaches and Cream' was meant for Julia, she seems very blue blooded, as per her response. (hence the smile)



I simply tried to state the fact that being accomodating sometimes results in getting ripped off by some......simple.



You seem so quick to jump the gun and ever to keen to whip on those shorts.....comments .

 

[wayneL]

...comments .

Those who know, don't talk.
Those who talk, don't know.

Shut your mouth.
Be still. Relax.
Let go of your worries.
Stay out of the spotlight.
Be at one with the world
and get right with Tao.

If you get right with Tao,
you won't be worried
about praise or scorn,
about winning or losing,
about honor or disgrace.
That's the way to be.

I'm shutting up now. Good night

 

[numbercruncher]

The actual cost of building hasn't increased that much above inflation and part of that increase is due to increased insurance and regulation compliance costs.

Wages within the industry have tracked inflation and builders margins have not moved significantly. In percentage terms they are similar to what they have traditionally been.

The biggest increase in the cost of housing is the land content.

Its true the biggest cost increase has been land due to money grabbin state governments.

I got a house quote to build in 2002 100k the same place in 2006 150k, thats one hella inflation! Sure builders work on about the same margin, but i know what price id rather have the 20pc margin on!

 

[juddy]

Well I've got a mate who has a degree as well, but now he's at Murin Murin as the H&S staffy on FIFO and raping it in. Whats youre point?.....you can't always have youre cake and eat it!.

Sure their not really his skills but who cares. Its a bit like the arguement of some wheat and sheep farmers,making no money but not prepared to change their ways......., doh.

Though I respect your comments FB, it is fortunate that not all people think like this, especially those in the 'caring' professions. Most (not all) police, teacher, nurse 'drones' work in their fields for the betterment of society, not to become wealthy. What would happen if they all chased the $100k mining jobs? Chaos?

The sacrifice these people make allow others to chase those big bucks and still come home to a house with their possessions still intact and healthy, educated children.

I appreciate the role these people play and are thankful they stay there.

 

[Freeballinginawetsuit]

Though I respect your comments FB, it is fortunate that not all people think like this, especially those in the 'caring' professions. Most (not all) police, teacher, nurse 'drones' work in their fields for the betterment of society, not to become wealthy. What would happen if they all chased the $100k mining jobs? Chaos?

The sacrifice these people make allow others to chase those big bucks and still come home to a house with their possessions still intact and healthy, educated children.

I appreciate the role these people play and are thankful they stay there.

No arguements here Juddy I appreciate the roles they play.

But were do you think the Mining royalties/PAYE/Company taxes go ATM thats propping up our economy and real estate value in West Oz . Its a two way street.

Those proffesions you stated are most essential, but gone are the days when they supported a family on a single income, let alone pay off the family mortgage. Again what props up the childcare levy thats necissitated by the young families earning the two incomes trying to get a start. Certainly not their professions.You could go on and on.

The truth is we all want a bit of the pie, but its not big enough for everyone and the scraps are running out.

So were does an 18 year old go straight out of school to get whats left, the warm and fuzzy profession and 4 years of uni prior.
Or go wash some dishes for a couple of years up North for a kick start and do the warm and fuzzy later.

There are opportunities too still get ahead, just short term sacrifices to be made to get their. Wether thier made is entirely up to the individual.

Anyway no more bashing please...I'm done on this one .

 

[Go Nuke]

One thing I've noticed over the past couple of years is a marked decline in the general willingness of people to take on additional work, for example paid overtime.

Why? Because only those old enough to remember past recessions or with an interest in economics have even the slightest concern that maybe, just maybe, they ought to be making $ while the economic sun is shining.

Everywhere you go, most believe the boom will go on forever and are less motivated to work as a consequence of that view.

I thought it was the tax that stopped people from working excessive paid overtime.
Tax will really screw u over if your not careful. And please dont say that they should fork out more dollars for a good accountant
Though i do think your comment on recession etc is true.

Ive thought about going to the mines...it might take its toll doing Fly in, Fly out work on my relationship though. So to some extent I have to (begrudgingly) agree with FB. Life can be what i make it.
I have to give up some of my "bad habits" before i can go to the mines anyway