Any real estate lawyers around here?

[gordon2007]

I would just hate the thought of living amongst people I couldn't get on with.

Yes Julia, it is definitely something we are considering.

gordon this is an issue of territoriality, power and possession. It is more likely they are acting this way because they feel threatened, rather than because they enjoy making life difficult for you.

In such a negotiation, you could big or small. Going big would mean powering up your defense and offense and just trying to blast them out of the water. This could be difficult, because it entails making them an enemy, and unless you know your enemy well, you could well be outsized and outnumbered. Maybe your neighbour is a ruthless QC. In some way, heartache will follow whether you win or lose

You could go small. Takes a lot of skill and humility to go small. You make yourself powerless and friendly, a little harmless, humble guy. You get them onside because they have never dealt with such a person in their professional or personal lives. They don't bother about hunting you, because they see you as a 'nothing', a non-player...someone of no significance. They have become wealthy through intimidation and control tactics, and you can wrong foot them... not in a nasty way, but enough to get what you want without rocking the boat. But it's not enough to be perceived as powerless - you must also be genuinely friendly. This will be a novelty for them. It's much easier to play this role if you naturally humble and friendly, but anyone can make the effort.

Going small can backfire. They may look at you as easy prey and decide it would be fun to destroy you! These aren't the sort of people you want to live anywhere near. But by playing small, you will find out whether they are just afraid of encroachment on their precious views (in which case you can easily win them over and live happily ever after), or whether they are total a-holes you want to avoid. In the second case, sell you block of land to a bikie gang.

The last option is to see things from their point of view and go with their demands. Ask to see inside their house to check what would happen to the view. Maybe it's worse than you expected. Maybe it's not such a big deal for you to go back 3m. Or maybe a strategically placed hedge will fix everything.

Agreed GB. We are naturally friendly people and have never NOT got along with any of our neighbours. I've tried the humble approach with them. Didn't work. I've been inside the other persons house a million times. Have slept there too many times to remember. He will NOT be losing any view. But there is just no reasoning with him.

As for the other persons house, there is none. It's just an empty block. In fact, when they build, we'll be the ones to lose part of our view.

To be blunt, the guy with the house is manipulating the person without a house and stirring up fear. I've tried to explain that to them too but with no success. They've both lawyered up so quick that now I cannot have direct conversation with them anymore. The last personal meeting they gave me 24 hours to make a decision or said they'll hire counsel. Before my 24 hours were even up they called me several times demanding an answer from me. I tried to explain that it's a very big decision and I would need a bit more time to rationalise this all t hrough. But again they lawyered up before even waiting their own deadline of 24 hours.

I'm no lawyer but have spoken to so many people and have done so much research and am convinced they have no case. Even our local council are on our side and deem them to be bully's. We're actually hoping now that the person with the with the empty block loses so much money in this stupid case that they just decide to sell up. As for our 'friend', well I think the damage can be repaired enough that we would get along afterwards. He's used language such as 'it's only the principle of it' that he's suing. As such I'm interpreting it as a way out for him if he loses to save face.

As a side note, he is going through some personal issues at the moment and am a concerned that he is actually having a nervous breakdown. It well and truly is insanity what they are expecting us to do.

 

[jancha]

I built a single story house on an elevated block next to a vacant block as far back of the road as possible. Thinking next door couldn't build my view out. I went to sell the property five years later and had a keen buyer. The buyer noticed the vacant block next door was being levelled for foundations so he went to the council to see the plans and after said to the real-estate agent that he wasn't interested and the house being built next door as it would block his view. As I was interstate while this was going on the agent said that he probably just wanted an excuse not to buy so didn't think much of it. Four month later I was told by a neighbour over the phone I should see what was being built next door so I flew home. Couldn't believe what the council had approved with this two storey monster of a house 10 metres away from the living dining areas. My view and my privacy were gone. Even the winter afternoon sun was gone by 3pm.
Went to the council with a care factor of zero from them so I did some searching.. turns out owner next door moved from Melbourne and was working with the local council as an auditor and further enquiries revealed that the council officer who signed on the approval of his house plans was not qualified!! Unreal so I go to an ombudsman who was very helpful...too helpful in fact as she got moved on leaving me a case number for future enquiries. Well I emailed and tried ringing the new ombudsmen's office quite a few times without any replies until I rang up and complained. I finally i had contact with the new case manager who had a strong Indian accent and made excuses as to why she hadn't replied earlier even tho I had the case number ect. She was completely the opposite from the other ombudsman not giving any advise and saying it wasn't her job to judge but basically just sit on the fence. Cut a long story short the council got a slap on the wrist and I got a letter from the Ombudsman department stating that the matter is close but you'll be please know that the council has be cautioned and it wont happen again.
I'd be very cautious when anyone starts building next door... once it's up it stays there.
Ps I eventually sold the property for 40k less than the original buyer was offering when the house next door was completed.

 

[Gringotts Bank]

Yes Julia, it is definitely something we are considering.

As a side note, he is going through some personal issues at the moment and am a concerned that he is actually having a nervous breakdown. It well and truly is insanity what they are expecting us to do.

This is it...right here. He's afraid. It's not about the view for him, despite what he says. Your plans have just triggered a powerful memory. He will have a history of either:

-- encroachment on personal space (such as abuse or bullying)
-- being a victim of stealing or theft
-- poverty

So if you push your case and win, you could push him over the edge. Is that worth it? Is it your problem? Does 3m matter so much? Maybe...maybe not.

If you were to let him have his way, you would probably find he will be so grateful that he will become a wonderful neighbour. That's quite possible you know. You might be the first person in his life to ever not pressure him.

Let me know more details about him. There will be a way for win-win somewhere.

 

[drsmith]

To be blunt, the guy with the house is manipulating the person without a house and stirring up fear. I've tried to explain that to them too but with no success. They've both lawyered up so quick that now I cannot have direct conversation with them anymore. The last personal meeting they gave me 24 hours to make a decision or said they'll hire counsel. Before my 24 hours were even up they called me several times demanding an answer from me. I tried to explain that it's a very big decision and I would need a bit more time to rationalise this all t hrough. But again they lawyered up before even waiting their own deadline of 24 hours.

I'm left with the felling that you should have simply said no to the bully and his manipulated fool well before now.

If you give in, can you imagine what it will be like living between these two ?
You'll be the wounded dog of the pack.

If you can draw legal confidence from the council's view, then I would stick with that.

 

[prawn_86]

He will have a history of either:

-- encroachment on personal space (such as abuse or bullying)
-- being a victim of stealing or theft
-- poverty

So if you push your case and win, you could push him over the edge. Is that worth it? Is it your problem? Does 3m matter so much? Maybe...maybe not.

Let me know more details about him. There will be a way for win-win somewhere.

While i agree with your last line i find it amazing that you can pretend to know so much about someone from a few lines of text.

 

[gordon2007]

So if you push your case and win, you could push him over the edge. Is that worth it? Is it your problem? Does 3m matter so much? Maybe...maybe not.

I understand where you're coming from GB. And I hate to say this, but what about us? If we move our house back, we then lose our view. This isn't just a weekend house for us. It's our dream home and a start to early retirement. We've been planning this for years and he's been well aware of it.

This personal friend of ours, well before we ever even bought this block of land, we have stood and his balcony and stated that if it ever came up for sale we'd buy it. Years later he finds out it is indeed coming up for sale, he is the person that informed us before it even went to the market. We bought it before it was even advertised So it's not like he had no idea. He always stated he'd love to have us as neighbours.

As for wealth, he's got more $$$ than he'll ever need. My wife has known him since childhood, he was never bullied.

 

[Boggo]

Tell them to move their house forward by 3m.

And definitely tell them to get stuffed.

Agree entirely, poor planning on their part and now they want to penalise you.
They will get over it, if they don't then tough.

 

[Gringotts Bank]

While i agree with your last line i find it amazing that you can pretend to know so much about someone from a few lines of text.

There's actually heaps of information in the posts. Anyone who acts in an irrational and aggressive way is afraid. Then it's just a matter of finding out what it is he's afraid of. You take the trigger and you work backwards from there. It has to be something *other than* the view because his reaction is abnormal. There's only a few possibilities, imo. I want more info from gordon so i can form a view, then create a strategy.

 

[Gringotts Bank]

I understand where you're coming from GB. And I hate to say this, but what about us? If we move our house back, we then lose our view. This isn't just a weekend house for us. It's our dream home and a start to early retirement. We've been planning this for years and he's been well aware of it.

This personal friend of ours, well before we ever even bought this block of land, we have stood and his balcony and stated that if it ever came up for sale we'd buy it. Years later he finds out it is indeed coming up for sale, he is the person that informed us before it even went to the market. We bought it before it was even advertised So it's not like he had no idea. He always stated he'd love to have us as neighbours.

As for wealth, he's got more $$$ than he'll ever need. My wife has known him since childhood, he was never bullied.

We've still got the issue of his extreme reaction and personal issues. And I reckon if you can figure it out, that's your only chance at getting what you want.

Is his garden neat, ultra neat or messy? What about his personal appearance? What's his personality like?
What would happen if you parked your car partly overlapping his nature strip? How does he react when neighbours are noisy? How much time does he spend at this home? Is he tight with money? What's his wife like? How does he relate to her? Do his children visit often? ...etc,

 

[Julia]

Gordon, whilst it may be rather too late, given they now have got lawyers involved, would it be worthwhile considering mediation? The Justice Department in most centres provides free mediation.
Perhaps give them a call, explain the situation and ask if they have any suggestions or advice?

Mediation, when engaged in voluntarily by both parties, has something like an 85% success rate.

 

[Gringotts Bank]

Forget about all those questions and possibilities I posed. None of that is really necessary at the end of the day. The thing is, you say he's very stressed out about *something*, and it's intrusive for me to try to figure out what that is.. What I would do is write him a letter and tell him I'm postponing the build for the moment because I noticed he seemed very stressed and I didn't want to add to his burden. Give him a few months to settle down and see how the land lies. I think he will appreciate the sentiment and allow you to build as planned.

Or Julia's approach sounds good too.

 

[moXJO]

Stuff em I run into this type of thing a lot in one particular suburb where I am. A case of cashed up whingers who are willing to use (bend) the law to get their way. If council has approved it and can't see a problem then he will have a hard time changing any decision. I wouldn't give an inch or discuss it too much with him until the lawyers go through the motions. I see this kind of legal bullying a bit, just keep in good with the key figures in council.

 

[MrBurns]

I had a run in with one of my neighbours, we don't talk any more, then I found non of his other adjoining neighbours talk to him either, some people are hopeless.

 

[gordon2007]

I wouldn't give an inch or discuss it too much with him until the lawyers go through the motions. I see this kind of legal bullying a bit, just keep in good with the key figures in council.

This is the exact plan we're taking. I'm going ahead with the build. He's had 9 months to voice his concern. Everyone, and I mean everyone in this very tiny town is on our side.

As for the people who own the empty block, I have tried to explain to him numerous times he's being taken advantage of by our friend. I explained to him if they go ahead with this appeal and if they are successful in putting a temporary stop to our build they'll be putting our builder out of business, his employees lose their job, and all other subbies are stuffed too.

I'm quite over it and am prepared to have to live with nasty neighbours. I really don't see how the people who want to build in the future will be able to as there are only so many builders here and all of them, whilst competitors, are all quite tight. This is a very small town and news travels fast. He has already ruined his reputation here and I really suspect he'll have to sell his block anyway.

 

[Boggo]

I lived in the Adelaide hills until a few years ago and the place I had there had a sloping away block which meant my decking at the back was a second storey level.
There was a vacant block next door and some guy from Sydney bought it unseen except for photos because his wife wanted to move back to Adelaide.

They built a single level house which we now overlooked at their roof level. Shortly after they moved in this character started to spell out what he wanted from the neighbours on each side. In our case he wanted us to enclose the side of our decking because we could see in his windows from the deck.
I passed him off after his first visit hoping he would just forget it, he came back though, this time stating he had discussed it with the council and a lawyer.

I took him out the back and discussed various options with him. I told him I would organise a few quotes and did he want them sent directly to him or did he want me to drop them off when I had all of them.
He looked a bit puzzled until I said that I was willing to do what he wanted and get the quotes but that he was paying for it.
He really fired up then with threats of lawyers, council engineers and went on to describe how I would have to remove my floodlighting etc.

I basically told him where to go and that was it, never heard another thing from the useless clot. He sold up about a year later.

These clowns can ruin your life if you let them.

 

[gordon2007]

In an interesting twist, our 'friend' just called in for a cup of tea, as he often does. Talked about several things but nothing about the impending legal case. In an ironic twist, he's asked my wife if she can do his books for him over this coming weekend.

Of note though is he did mention about he's just withdrawn from another legal case he was involved with as it was 'getting too expensive' and said it's a bit silly to sue just on a principle.

I'm interpreting this as a signal he's possibly thinking of giving up and trying to make amends now.

 

[Gringotts Bank]

In an interesting twist, our 'friend' just called in for a cup of tea, as he often does. Talked about several things but nothing about the impending legal case. In an ironic twist, he's asked my wife if she can do his books for him over this coming weekend.

Of note though is he did mention about he's just withdrawn from another legal case he was involved with as it was 'getting too expensive' and said it's a bit silly to sue just on a principle.

I'm interpreting this as a signal he's possibly thinking of giving up and trying to make amends now.

Yeh, he will drop it. And now you know what was stressing him (a separate issue altogether). Well done! Holding off worked for you.

 

[gordon2007]

Yeh, he will drop it. And now you know what was stressing him (a separate issue altogether). Well done! Holding off worked for you.

One can hope. But I'm not taking that to the bank yet.

 

[gordon2007]

Or perhaps he's dropping out of that case to save his money for this case

 

[Gringotts Bank]

One can hope. But I'm not taking that to the bank yet.

I wouldn't either. One wrong step from you and it's ruined. He's offered the olive branch, and he obviously trusts you. Continue the "do-nothing" approach, I reckon. Finish his books and expect nothing in return. You'll get your view.