Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

Any Full Time ES Traders Here in AU/NZ?

Jump to new
M

Mr Liquid

Joined
5 July 2012
Posts
10
Reactions
0
Hi All

I day trade USA futures full time. I want to get some insight from only full time traders who trade the US markets about how they manage their schedules. That has been the most challenging thing for me personally because of the time zone issue. US markets open here (Syd, Melb time) 11:30pm - 1:30am (depending on standard or daylight time) so trying to manage sleep/peak state for optimal trading overnight is a challenge.

I've tried many schedules and timings from full 5-7hr sleep patterns to bi-phasic sleep cycles whilst incorporating diet and exercise into my days. I've done a tonne of research on sleep, etc. So I have a reasonably good routine set in place now but there are days where inability to get that needed sleep becomes frustrating (which is natural as I'm fighting my body's circadian rhythm to stay up at night0

So insights into what works for you and what doesn't to manage sleep / peak state?

Oh and moving to US not an option. my boss (wife) said no go
 
Re: Any Full Time ES Traders Here in AU / NZ ?

Mr Liquid said:
Hi All

I day trade USA futures full time. I want to get some insight from only full time traders who trade the US markets about how they manage their schedules. That has been the most challenging thing for me personally because of the time zone issue. US markets open here (Syd, Melb time) 11:30pm - 1:30am (depending on standard or daylight time) so trying to manage sleep/peak state for optimal trading overnight is a challenge.

I've tried many schedules and timings from full 5-7hr sleep patterns to bi-phasic sleep cycles whilst incorporating diet and exercise into my days. I've done a tonne of research on sleep, etc. So I have a reasonably good routine set in place now but there are days where inability to get that needed sleep becomes frustrating (which is natural as I'm fighting my body's circadian rhythm to stay up at night0

So insights into what works for you and what doesn't to manage sleep / peak state?

Oh and moving to US not an option. my boss (wife) said no go
Click to expand...

I'm sure you've been asked the obvious question before but I'll try anyway....why not find a contract that fits your schedule instead of trying to fit your schedule around a contract? If you like the ES then your strategy might work on the Eurex, say the Eurostoxx (FESX), that trades in your evening.
 
Re: Any Full Time ES Traders Here in AU / NZ ?

CanOz said:
I'm sure you've been asked the obvious question before but I'll try anyway....why not find a contract that fits your schedule instead of trying to fit your schedule around a contract? If you like the ES then your strategy might work on the Eurex, say the Eurostoxx (FESX), that trades in your evening.
Click to expand...

A BIG +1.

Trading is meant to serve an end not be the end.
 
Re: Any Full Time ES Traders Here in AU / NZ ?

CanOz said:
I'm sure you've been asked the obvious question before but I'll try anyway....why not find a contract that fits your schedule instead of trying to fit your schedule around a contract? If you like the ES then your strategy might work on the Eurex, say the Eurostoxx (FESX), that trades in your evening.
Click to expand...


Thanks for getting the thread going CanOz.

Alternative instruments is definitely a consideration I have. I don't have much knowledge on other markets outside of the US so your suggestion is helpful. I will look into that!

I trained myself on ES and stuck with it. Trading ASX futures is also an option which will eliminate time zone issues however the reward in dollar terms is literally half that of ES (in terms of points only) for the same amount of research effort.

My main reasons for choosing ES are to do with goals. Every market has its own intricacies in the way it moves and behaves harmonically. ES is a beast that can handle very large size without much slippage at all. So if my goal is to trade large size like the professionals, then its prudent for me to be in ES - not to say that its not possible to do well in other markets but as you said - I understand how ES moves and 'like it'.

Maybe if we can come up with a list of other futures markets that behave similarly to the ES and trades similar volume that are better suited to this side of the world?
 
Re: Any Full Time ES Traders Here in AU / NZ ?

Mr Liquid said:
So insights into what works for you and what doesn't to manage sleep / peak state?
Click to expand...

Having to stay up at the wrong sort of hours is not unique to traders. There are all sorts of industries that do night shifts... Hospital staff, transport workers, security industry, media, 24-hr IT support, Apu etc. May be do some research and borrow some pages from their books (I have no idea where are these books and what are contained i the pages).

But, like CanOz says... not everyone's body should be abused to stay up all night for prolonged periods. You literally can't pay me enough to trade the US markets.
 
Re: Any Full Time ES Traders Here in AU / NZ ?

skc said:
Having to stay up at the wrong sort of hours is not unique to traders. There are all sorts of industries that do night shifts... Hospital staff, transport workers, security industry, media, 24-hr IT support, Apu etc. May be do some research and borrow some pages from their books (I have no idea where are these books and what are contained i the pages).

But, like CanOz says... not everyone's body should be abused to stay up all night for prolonged periods. You literally can't pay me enough to trade the US markets.
Click to expand...



Thanks skc.. What you forget is that traders are not like the other night shift workers you mention here. We trade in isolation in front of our screens and not in a team environment with co-workers and bosses so the workplace dynamics are not comparable. It's a mental performance game not physical as I'm sure any professional trader knows.

Secondly, I do not consider my body being put under abuse. If that is your filter, then yes you will experience pain in doing so. I don't mind it because professional traders are dynamic and adaptable. The ES is the domain of the professionals so I understand not everyone is likely to thrive in it and even be intimidated by it. I on the other hand love it. In other words, I literally won't devalue my rewards for effort put in by 50% by trading ASX futures.

BTW, do you have any real suggestions or insights regarding the threads topic of discussion as I am only seeking insights from full time ES traders. Everyone else will be posting 'noise' here but I appreciate the sling.
 
Re: Any Full Time ES Traders Here in AU / NZ ?

Mr Liquid said:
My main reasons for choosing ES are to do with goals. Every market has its own intricacies in the way it moves and behaves harmonically. ES is a beast that can handle very large size without much slippage at all. So if my goal is to trade large size like the professionals, then its prudent for me to be in ES -
Click to expand...

That is pretty limited thinking. Frame it another way. Are there any large traders outside the ES?

Mr Liquid said:
Maybe if we can come up with a list of other futures markets that behave similarly to the ES and trades similar volume that are better suited to this side of the world?
Click to expand...

FTSE
DAX
Nikkei
K200
STI
SPI
STW
HSI
HHI

All can handle far more volume than you will be able to swing.
 
Re: Any Full Time ES Traders Here in AU / NZ ?

skc said:
But, like CanOz says... not everyone's body should be abused to stay up all night for prolonged periods. You literally can't pay me enough to trade the US markets.
Click to expand...

Trading the DAX works out ok from AUS, always a bit of fun with it, or the trading into the London New York overlap with Spot FX, or finding tradeable future contracts. Really just a matter of finding the market and contracts that fit the way you (want) to trade or have the required liquidity.

Our daylight saving time (AESDT), as well as when DST occurs in the Northern Hemisphere is another factor to consider, but not difficult to work around. Can find an instrument to trade, which better fits our times, especially for those who are working full time and trading part time.

Gave up working ungodly hours years ago, but can still do them as the need arises. Senior roles still require a high time commitment at times.
 
Re: Any Full Time ES Traders Here in AU / NZ ?

Mr Liquid said:
Thanks for getting the thread going CanOz.

Alternative instruments is definitely a consideration I have. I don't have much knowledge on other markets outside of the US so your suggestion is helpful.....

Maybe if we can come up with a list of other futures markets that behave similarly to the ES and trades similar volume that are better suited to this side of the world?
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's why I suggested the FESX, it's thicker than the ES and that makes it one of the most liquid markets in the world. That said, the point value is roughly the same as a tick on the ES from memory...

CanOz
 
Re: Any Full Time ES Traders Here in AU / NZ ?

Trembling Hand said:
That is pretty limited thinking. Frame it another way. Are there any large traders outside the ES?



FTSE
DAX
Nikkei
K200
STI
SPI
STW
HSI
HHI

All can handle far more volume than you will be able to swing.
Click to expand...


Dont you think that it pretty limited thinking? Esp. amusing you know how much I can swing or how big I want to swing eventually (to serve an end)? There are trades that can actually move a market eroding any edge in it. With the ES, even if you are a $10 Million a day trader, it will handle it.. If your plan is to stay small time then dont bother looking into the ES as an instrument.

Of course there are large traders outside of the ES. That is not the point. Size is only one aspect to consider. I won't go into all the other benefits ES has over most other markets and methods (inc. stocks, forex etc) in this thread. All of that has to be combined with self-awareness which is a very individual thing in order to find the right instrument.

Thanks for the list. That's what this thread needs.. insights! :)
 
Re: Any Full Time ES Traders Here in AU / NZ ?

CanOz said:
Yeah, that's why I suggested the FESX, it's thicker than the ES and that makes it one of the most liquid markets in the world. That said, the point value is roughly the same as a tick on the ES from memory...

CanOz
Click to expand...


Beautiful.. I will look into it. Thanks for the valuable insight.
 
Re: Any Full Time ES Traders Here in AU / NZ ?

lesm said:
Trading the DAX works out ok from AUS, always a bit of fun with it, or the trading into the London New York overlap with Spot FX, or finding tradeable future contracts. Really just a matter of finding the market and contracts that fit the way you (want) to trade or have the required liquidity.

Our daylight saving time (AESDT), as well as when DST occurs in the Northern Hemisphere is another factor to consider, but not difficult to work around. Can find an instrument to trade, which better fits our times, especially for those who are working full time and trading part time.

Gave up working ungodly hours years ago, but can still do them as the need arises. Senior roles still require a high time commitment at times.
Click to expand...


Ungodly hours aren't a problem if single and unattached but once we have a family and kids, the game changes a little so that's where we have to evolve to find that imperfect balance.

One thing I'll add is that there is no point in trading only part time long term. There are easier ways to make a few extra dollars. Trading offers immense opportunity but you have to approach it with the will to make millions. Any less is a waste of energy, time and effort and is what keeps traders struggling.

thanks for the market suggestions. :)
 
Re: Any Full Time ES Traders Here in AU / NZ ?

Mr Liquid said:
There are trades that can actually move a market eroding any edge in it. With the ES, even if you are a $10 Million a day trader, it will handle it.. If your plan is to stay small time then dont bother looking into the ES as an instrument.
Click to expand...

:D

10 million a day hey.... WOW. I hope one day....

Hey hold on......

Screen Shot 10-06-14 at 04.33 PM.PNG

What about 13 mil in half a day.... :rolleyes: :D
 
Re: Any Full Time ES Traders Here in AU / NZ ?

Trembling Hand said:
:D

10 million a day hey.... WOW. I hope one day....

Hey hold on......

View attachment 59702

What about 13 mil in half a day.... :rolleyes: :D
Click to expand...



lol.. way to expose your egotistical side (not very flattering). I wont go there cos I don't need to (i can manipulate figures in my records with a click).. you take my 10M point literally. I could have said 100M or 1M .. btw i was referring to R not Profit.. or are you claiming to be netting 13M per half day every day as your statement implies.. cos we all know what real traders experience right :)
 
Re: Any Full Time ES Traders Here in AU / NZ ?

Mr Liquid said:
lol.. way to expose your egotistical side (not very flattering). I wont go there cos I don't need to (i can manipulate figures in my records with a click).. you take my 10M point literally. I could have said 100M or 1M .. btw i was referring to R not Profit.. or are you claiming to be netting 13M per half day every day as your statement implies.. cos we all know what real traders experience right :)
Click to expand...

Lol
 
Re: Any Full Time ES Traders Here in AU / NZ ?

Mr Liquid said:
lol.. way to expose your egotistical side (not very flattering). I wont go there cos I don't need to (i can manipulate figures in my records with a click).. you take my 10M point literally. I could have said 100M or 1M .. btw i was referring to R not Profit.. or are you claiming to be netting 13M per half day every day as your statement implies.. cos we all know what real traders experience right :)
Click to expand...

Its turnover...
 
Trembling Hand said:
Ok Mr Liquid good luck with your night shift and swinging large.
Click to expand...


I smell a hint of sarcasm in there.. but thank you.

Besides all the other 'noise' in this thread, thank you to CanOz and Trembling Hand for the alternative market suggestions. They are very helpful to any local traders trying to explore more options, not just me.

However, this thread is yet to receive a response regarding the initial query so I hope future posts in this thread will address that.. funny how people just want to get a comment in for the sake of it. I'm looking for value regarding the reason for this post if anyone has some?
 
Mr Liquid said:
However, this thread is yet to receive a response regarding the initial query so I hope future posts in this thread will address that.. funny how people just want to get a comment in for the sake of it. I'm looking for value regarding the reason for this post if anyone has some?
Click to expand...

So insights into what works for you and what doesn't to manage sleep / peak state?
Click to expand...

Going back ten years or so i had to work night shift. I found that i really suffered just before dawn. Then once i got home i could sleep really sound if i went to bed right away. Because i slept so sound i only needed 4-6 hours sleep to get though the day, which at that stage meant helping to build my house.

I've also done a bit of research on sleep since then as i've been plagued with insomnia from time to time. The recent data shows that 90 minute cycles can be quite effective if you can awake at the proper time during the end of a cycle.

Actually Withings has a new sleep tool that could help you as well. Their baby monitor is a beautiful piece of kit.;)

Withings Aura

Oh by the way Mr.Liquid, i sent you a PM:)
 
Top