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Amazing Hydrogen Invention

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Kimosabi

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I just came across these guys that have developed a Welder that uses Water and the gas can also be used with Gasoline to increase fuel efficiency by 25-30%

I'd love to get in on this IPO


Website
 
What a great idea

I think they still have a way to go as far as hydrogen cars are concerned but thats an awesome idea using it for welding
 
Gar said:
What a great idea

I think they still have a way to go as far as hydrogen cars are concerned but thats an awesome idea using it for welding
Click to expand...

Not true, Ford and Daimler Chrysler own the technology developed by a public company in the US. It is ready to go. The changeover of service stations will be expensive so we will have to wait to fuel gets a bit dearer.
 
Yep, and Perth has at least one Hydogen bus. Went for a ride in it a couple of months back.
 
2020hindsight said:
Yep, and Perth has at least one Hydogen bus. Went for a ride in it a couple of months back.
Click to expand...
http://www.abc.net.au/ra/innovations/stories/s1499183.htm

They also have had a 100% hydrogen scooter running and more significantly entered a hydrogen (internal combustion engine) Toyota Corolla in a road rally last year. The technology works, the problem is cost and scaling up renewable energy sufficiently to produce the hydrogen from a renewable source (since it largely defeats the purpose to extract the hydrogen from gas or oil).

Ford have been quite willing to supply a 100% hydrogen engine for the power generation project referred to in the link. Actually they have a standard "off the shelf" unit available.
 
I've just been looking at some DIY kits you can buy online to run your car on water.

http://water4gas.com/2books.htm

Since I'm not mechanically minded, I suspect I would need to pay a mechanic to fit one.

Does anyone know of someone installing these kits here in Australia? (preferably Melbourne)
 
I may have discovered the answer to my question.

Code: 
http://www.hybridfuel.com.au/
 
Extract it? I thought the 2 most abundant elements in the universe were hydrogen and stupidity

Anyways, i've read a while back fuel cells and hydrogen power were not, and will not turn commercial for a while simply because its too expensive to run; and the high pressure storage of a very flammable gas didn't sit well with some people...
 
Yeah, shortly after i found that link, I also found a mythbusters review of alternate fuels, and the car wouldn't start on Hydrogen.....lol

They also said the EPA reckoned it only improved efficiency by 7%
 
the military wants him to develop a hummer that runs on H2O and gasoline
Click to expand...

looks like the military have already secured this project so much for conventional use.

not really surprised more and more of these kind of technology that should have been developed decades ago will start flooding the media.
 
No doubt that hydrogen works as a fuel as that's easily provable. Vehicles are running on it and there have been plenty of unintentional situatons where hydrogen has been burnt where it's an industrial by-product etc.

Every few minutes late at night when it's still I can hear another bang in the distance if I go outside - that's hydrogen exploding in the cell room at the zinc smelter not too far away.

But one problem. You don't just drill a hole in the ground and take out hydrogen. We either get it out of natural gas (itself predominantly hydrogen) ot produce it from water using electricity. Either way we're still relying on gas, oil, coal etc unless we're going to get the electricity some other way.

The welder idea's a good one though simply because it removes the need to mess about with gas bottles. Electricity and water are available in most places so it's easier to just plug something in, especially for infrequent use. Water and electricity = cheap and easy. Acetylene and oxygen cylinders = lots of messing about and far more costly.
 

There is a slight issue I have with the laws of physics with this one.

So you turn water into HHO AKA Oxyhydrogen, or Brown's Gas, you burn it, then it turns back into water. Nice circular equation, no change in energy state.

So... Where did the extra energy come from?

I can believe on the welder, that the electrolysis process is in effect storing a HUGE amount of energy pulled from the socket in the wall. And if the HHO hybrid/full car needs to be plugged into the wall, still no issue at all.

However, if the electrolysis process draws energy from the alternator, the alternator needs to get energy from somewhere - most notably, the engine. No process is 100% efficient, so it means you pull more energy from the engine than you put back in... Means mileage will go down.

So - unless this process actually destroys mass a la nuclear fission style, there is nowhere for extra energy to come from. Closed loop, balanced equation. Someone's pulling someone's leg.

To quote wikipedia:

 
Sunder a voice of reason in wilderness. I don't know what these geniuses are thinking.

Energy in = Energy out, simple as that. No if, no but, no whatever (ok apart from E=mc^2, but it is another story).

Perfect Carnot engine is not possible. Sooner people realize this fact and stop blaming evil oil companies for the lack of development of these so called 'alternate technologies'.....

Well I have another one for the sheeple, I have a car which harness the natural magnetic field of earth, it is absolutely free,......But the evil oil companies are not allowing me to release it to the media..
 
Big thank you to the last two posters, I almost lost faith in all humanity reading the other posts.


It takes a lot more energy to turn water into gas then what you get out of it.

It is only viable if the energy that is used in the electrolysis, comes from a renewable power source.

In other words, the "big bad oil companies" dont have to fight to get rid of this. all the infrastructure to get this idea working on a world scale, would need a huge amount of oil anyway
 
Iirc... it is the amount of storage that is a problem.

You can't actually contain it effectively and you need enormous tanks to make it worthwhile, which makes it impractical on cars.
 
Naked shorts said:
Big thank you to the last two posters, I almost lost faith in all humanity reading the other posts.
Click to expand...
Um, well, I did say essentially the same thing too. But anyway... :

As for actual efficiency, it's typically about as follows for the original energy content of the fuel:

100% - Energy content of fuel in ground

93% - What's left by the time it gets to the power station

35% - What's left by the time it's burnt to generate electricty

33% - What's left as electricity that actually leaves the power station (you'd be amazed how much electricity power stations consume).

30% - What's left after transmission and distribution losses are accounted for (typical value as it will depend on location).

18% - The amount left once you've converted that electricity to hydrogen.

4% - The amount delivered as mechanical power from the engine buring that hydrogen.

So that's it, just 4% of the fuel in the ground makes it to mechanical power from the engine if we do it with hydrogen in a conventional internal combustion engine.

That's about one fifth the efficiency as doing the same job with petrol which makes the whole thing an outright dud unless the sole aim is to power a road vehicle without the use of oil, gas or coal anywhere in the process (ie nuclear or renewable electricity generation).

If we used the hydrogen in fuel cells instead of internal combustion engines, it's still only around 9% overall efficiency so it's better but not great.

Batteries would be more efficient way, it works out around 18% which isn't much worse than the efficiency of a conventional petrol engine. Add in a regenerative braking system (since it's electric propulsion) and it becomes quite efficient overall (compared to the alternatives).

One way to make hydrogen a lot more efficient is to simply take the element from a concentrated source that provides primary energy thus avoiding the electricity and electrolysis steps. That means stripping hydrogen from natural gas or oil. But there isn't a huge amount of logic in doing that when you think about it unless you've got a specific (in practice industrial) need for hydrogen that doesn't involve using it as a substitute for petrol. It's still more efficient to just use the gas / oil to run the engine directly.
 
I had this old bugger come into my workshop the other week with a 1985 Hilux ute, under the bonnet was a 1 litre Vacola glass jar with a lid on it, in the jar was coiled stainless steel strip which was connected to a 7 amp 12v feed from the car's electrics. There was also a hose connected to the lid which fed the air intake to his carburettor , the fellow said in the jar was water with a tablespoon of bicarb of soda which lasts about a month or 2.

He stated the whole setup cost about $70.00 and before he fitted it he was getting 350km per tank of petrol, using this system he now gets 400 to 450km per tank of fuel, of course the reaction with electricity and the water/bi carb mixture in the jar produces hydrogen and oxygen.

Now I don't know the long term effect on the standard motor using hydrogen as a fuel but I was impressed with his results and how cheap the conversion kit was and the ongoing costs.
 
Considering one of these would take only a couple hours to make and less than $100, I am tempted to try one, so on top of quoting laws of thermodynamics, I can actually say I tried it.

There is a TINY TINY chance, that hydrogen, oxygen, brown's gas, or some weird byproduct of this unit, doesn't break the laws of thermo dynamics by adding power to the system, but works by acting as a catalyst of some sort, rather than an energy input.

Hydrogen is not exactly known to be a catalyst to hydrocarbon combustion, neither is oxygen, but who knows? Perhaps the raising of combustion temperature, since hydrogen burns a lot hotter than carbon, causes a cleaner more efficient burn.

Extremely unlikely, but not entirely outside the realm of possibility. I've seen some strange things happen in cars.
 
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