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Albo's Coal and Gas Price Cap and Financial Aid proposal

Craton

Mostly passive, contrarian.
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Apology if this has been posted/discussed elsewhere but Albo's proposed coal and gas price cap along with financial aid will most assuredly dampen SP is those stocks affected, e.g ORG.

So, is it a done deal and will the proposed pass through parliament?
The market seems to think so.

Australia To Impose A Cap On Coal And Gas Prices

By Irina Slav - Dec 09, 2022, 2:23 AM CST


Below is from the ABC

Coal and gas price caps and whether they'll lower your energy bills explained​

By energy reporter Daniel Mercer
Posted Sat 10 Dec 2022 at 6:43amSaturday 10 Dec 2022 at 6:43am, updated Yesterday at 11:12am

 
As a broad comment, caution is required in assessing the impact on any given company.

Firstly because it applies only to domestic market sales and not to exports. Bearing in mind that the domestic market is far smaller than the scale of exports.

Then it gets complex.....

A lot of coal isn't tradeable either due to its quality or simply lack of physical transport infrastructure to enable it to be exported. It never was exposed to international pricing and is instead being sold under contract to whoever. The impact there is zero.

There are situations where the coal mining company and the coal consumer are the same. On a large scale AGL owns the Loy Yang mine and itself uses about 65% of its output with the remainder sold to electricity rival Alinta under long term contract. Only a very minor amount is sold to anyone else. There are other examples like that in other states too.

Even where coal is tradeable, a lot is tied up under longer term contracts the price of which will typically be lower than the spot price at present. But then there's the question of how that price is set - is it a fixed coal price as such or is it calculated based on the price of gas, electricity or something else?

For a company that buys coal and generates electricity (or uses it in industry etc) the direct impact of a price cut is good. That gets complex in the case of electricity given the intent is to push market prices down since competitors also get cheaper fuel.

For electricity companies their electricity hedging is also highly relevant. To what extent are prices locked in and for how long? That alone gets complex - there are industrial sites where multiple companies jointly hold the supply contract. Eg there's one I'm aware of where AGL, Alinta and Origin are all suppliers to the same site. Bearing in mind AGL's selling Alinta the coal.

Then there's retailers with hedging contracts with generators and that does extend to gentailers (those who generate and retail) contracting with rivals indeed that's routine. Electricity being about the only industry where listed companies, private companies and government entities contract with each other on commercial terms meanwhile also being direct competitors.

And for another spanner in the works, transport. There are some arrangements where the higher the commodity price goes, the lower the transport price. Because from an end user perspective, the choice to burn one fuel versus another fuel depends on the delivered price on site. So in order for fuel A to remain competitive, whoever's moving it takes the hit - it's either that or the physical movement of it ceases.

Point being it's too hard to generalise. Need to analyse each company in detail.
 
Maybe because he, like some reptiles, can't hear too well.

Bowen dismisses gas company concerns

 
IMO the process will end up costing the taxpayers heaps IMO, it will be shown to save the taxpayer, $200 odd bucks, but the GOV will end up having to spend heaps more taxpayer $ to save it. At the end of the day, the tax payer pays it.

Why not just remove GST from electricity bills for residential customers on welfare for this period, that would save 10% instantly and that is also 10% on the service charge as well as the electricity charge? Easy to do, just tell the billing company to adjust the bill, done.
It was done by the last Govt when they halved fuel excise. ?

Time will tell, but it sounds a bit like smoke and mirrors to me, from the article that I posted the other day, apparently there are only two power stations paying more than the proposed cap, for the coal anyway.?

Sounds a bit like Luigi the magician (Paul Hogan) and using Maria to distract the audience when he stuffed up a magic trick.
I guess Albo is Hoge's and Bowen is Maria, he always seems to get these $hit gigs, he was silly Billy's fall guy last outing, now the poor bloke looks like he has popped his head up again.

Can you imagine it, day after the election, arm around Chris's shoulder, "Chris you know we have this really strong commitment, purpose, I mean let's be honest VISION" and we need one of our best men to be able to achieve it, do you know anyone?
 
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The inherent problem with energy, especially electricity, and why it's so often in the news comes down to it cutting across so many different areas, often in conflict with each other.

The technical aspects are absolutely rigid and non-negotiable. A 1% frequency deviation is serious enough to warrant an internal investigation. Beyond 5% and the likely outcome is outright system collapse. The technical aspects of it all are unforgiving and not-negotiable even slightly - this is "hard" physics here.

The economic aspects affect essentially the whole of society given that practically all economic activity has energy inputs.

Energy resources are strategic in nature. They literally start wars either as the subject of conflict, the means of funding it or a means of attacking the enemy.

Energy lies at the heart of many environmental issues. Smog, dams on wild rivers, uranium mining, nuclear waste, acid rain, climate change, ash dams and so on. The history of mainstream environmentalism is to very considerable extent a history of conflict with the energy industry.

Now throw in domestic politics with the voters demanding that all of the above be individually prioritised plus the political parties putting their own ideology over the top.

End result is an unresolvable mess since quite simply the various objectives conflict. It's possible to get a few aligned but extremely difficult to get the lot and that means someone's always screaming.
 
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Yes, except it will be the UN / WEF - they will level us with Zimbabwe first.
Labor's "green" policies will speed up the process too.
that is still Communism/Socialism( and feudalism )
the very small elite have everything , the rest share the pain and suffering

and Zimbabwe might look like paradise if their plan is complete ( you can still rise to the top level in Zimbabwe , we are more likely to get a nasty cross between 'royal families ' and nepotism )

remember the ALP already have a history of throwing rank and file unionists under the bus ( numerous times ) that is why they need 'dirt files ' to keep the mid/high level compliant

maybe it will be easier planned than accomplished

and don't think the Liberals are the savior , they lost their spine decades ago too go back and read carefully Power Without Glory a ( fictional ?? ) history of Australian politics ,
 
@Smurf1976 not many easy answers, the walls are closing in, coal isn't viable, gas is only worth exporting, the unwanted child is the Australian electricity consumers.

Add to that, the renewables want a rate of return on their investment and we need twice as much installed as is base load requirement, so that the storage can be charged, when the renewables aren't working, who pays for that?

The walls are closing in.

Meanwhile who lends the money to the coal miners, to remove the overburden and expose more seams? So then there is no coal to supply the power stations anyway.

But it's worse than that, as you know, the coal generators have to put units on and off twice a day, which takes time and costs money which they can't recover in the short time they are actually online for, just so the renewables get first dibs.

Oh what a mess and to add to the confusion, we now legislate a reduction, thereby giving the coal generators every excuse to close down, someone needs to charge up the magic wand IMO. ?
I have noticed a christmas tree of pole top isolators going in near our place, when I look at the configuration, it appears they want to be able to separate the CBD from suburbia.
Time will tell.
 
the game is to make you believe the government is NEEDED and YOUR support ( instead of the reverse )

smoke and mirrors and greater dependence on the 'government '
 
the game is to make you believe the government is NEEDED and YOUR support ( instead of the reverse )

smoke and mirrors and greater dependence on the 'government '
Just in case you haven't noticed, that is already the case.
Haven't you noticed, responsibility for decision making has been removed from the individual, to anyone remotely involved who can be blamed for the poor decision.
 
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There is a rental and housing crisis apparently, so why not a rental cap? or house price cap? cos that would be stupid and politically sensitive.
 
Just in case you haven't noticed, that is already the case.
Haven't you noticed, responsibility for decision making has been removed from the individual, to anyone remotely involved who can be blamed for the poor decision.
worked that out in the '70s but back then it was all 'conspiracy nut stuff ' , you know secret clubs and 'old boy networks '
 
There is a rental and housing crisis apparently, so why not a rental cap? or house price cap? cos that would be stupid and politically sensitive.
too many ALP politicians ( and minions ) own rental properties ( they would NEVER limit their own income ) and that is only what is in the pecuniary interest register , goodness knows what is 'off-the-books'

but don't fret is isn't just the ALP
 
ever notice how they push 'green energy ' but don't inspire you to go off-grid ( and not need their 'smart meters )
Because going off grid in most situations is economically worse, for all involved.

Even if you can produce enough electricity for your own needs and have batteries to store it, you need to over size you system so that you can survive the cold and cloudy days, but then on the sunny days you aren’t connected to the grid, so have no way of selling the excess power your oversized system generates.

Being connected to the grid allows you to sell your excess once your batteries are full, and allows you to import during the low production times, so you don’t need a huge over sized system.
 
Turning down the politics as far as possible but not to zero and looking at the investment aspects, there are some broader themes here.

1. We are in an inflationary environment. Such circumstances do tend to result in things like price controls, strikes and so on. Happened in the 1970's and there's plenty of examples globally.

2. Price controls usually end up with physical shortages. It does some combination of lowering production and raising consumption. Also tends to prompt de-prioritisation of the activity, industrial action and so on.

3. Big business is as prone to ideology as is politics. Don't for a moment think they won't shoot themselves and shareholders in the foot, indeed it was doing that 30 years ago which helped create the present mess.

And then it goes back to the start, point one. We are in an inflationary environment. Once one side sees fit to raise prices, pretty soon the other side does it too.

Now none of this is new, it's been going on a very long time and plenty's been said about what was coming going back many years on this forum and elsewhere. No surprises here, it's just the expected outcome. Keep whacking your hand with a hammer and it gets sore yes.

As for politics, well Labor versus Liberal is a bit like Channel 7 versus Channel 9 or it's like Airbus versus Boeing. Same thing, just a different name. Note the date of this:

 
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