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- 25 February 2011
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Mommy, mommy it's so unfair!
Those dastardly HF traders are using their resources to gain a profitable edge in the market.
Somebody, anybody, please stop them! Stop them now!
Coz I wanna trade the markets but I can't seem to make a profit coz those nasty bots keep sucking all the opportunity out of the market!
It's so unfair. I can't seem to profit - so the traders making the money must have an unfair advantage over me, therefore we need more regulations and we need them now!
Mommy please make it all better!
Interesting contribution.
But HFTers definitely have a distinct advantage over everyone else. Furthermore, this advantage is constant and quantifiable. Having a bloomberg terminal doesn't mean you will make good decisions. Having the most economists doesn't mean they will form a hivemind to see the future. But having the fastest access to the ASX by a wide margin does mean that you can use mathematics and historical patterns to accurately predict what is about to happen, and profit from it - at the expense of other market participants.
Because,By the way, how do you know the bold bit? Especially the "accurately" part.But having the fastest access to the ASX by a wide margin does mean that you can use mathematics and historical patterns to accurately predict what is about to happen, and profit from it
:bunny:Let's say Joe Sixpack buys $100,000 CBA one day for $49, and it trades at $50 a fortnight later. Mr. Sixpax proclaims "yipee" and hits the sell button - but in that period of time, in between when he hit sell and the order is executed by the ASX, a HFT parasite has taken market actions which result in CBA trading at $49.50 - and good 'ol Joe with six kids to feed, and a wife that just won't shut up about a brand new BMW got 50% less profit.
Xactly. Nothing here except a very poor journo's beat up.The only benefit ultra low latency provides is over other algos using a similar strategy.
- Big institutions employing alot of expensive and finite resources but can't make them work has no unfair advantage.
- HFTs employing alot of expensive and finite resources that makes them profitable has an unfair advantage.
Is that right?
By the way, how do you know the bold bit? Especially the "accurately" part.
Their only competitive advantage over a retail trader is superior execution speed. Which is next to useless in that context. If you're going to fight them in their <1sec timeframes you will lose.
Challenge Accepted! Or at least it would be if I had equal access to the low latency execution speed, regardless of my financial wealth.
Yes. Is there a logical flaw? I don't see one.
Because they make money off of it? How many companies make money off predicting the lottery? None. That's because it's impossible. Clearly the existence of HFTers proves it is possible to do so with the stock market.
So the moment that a company makes money from their highly paid economist they change from having no unfair advantage to having an unfair advantage. At the same time, if HFTs stop being profitable it is no longer unfair.
When does existence imply profitability?
Look - I am neither a supporter or detractor of HFTs. I see their existence as having both pros and cons. I am happy to change my mind if there's new information suggesting to me that they have unfair advantage. But so far none of your argument hold up logically (let alone factually).
Interesting contribution.
Nothing here except a very poor journo's beat up.
Imagine that you could create HFTing algorithms just like them, which could make money - and yet, you could not deploy them because of a lack of capital. Now you see all these companies making money doing exactly the same as what you can do - but you do not have this opportunity, simply because you don't have enough money. Would you still think that's fair?
LOL spoken like a true small thinker.
I doubt any company is going to have an advantage by employing any economist. I really highly doubt that - at least so far as the stock market is concerned.
I, you, or anyone else can learn everything that exists in economics, and we can then use our knowledge to analyse and make predictions on the future - in the same way any economist employed by any company can. There is absolutely no inherent advantage which they have over anyone.
When that which exists makes profit and thereby continues existing and perhaps even expanding. HFTing companies would not pay the highest salaries and employ ever more people if they were not extremely profitable.
Maybe that's just because you're not looking at it from the broader perspective. Imagine that you could create HFTing algorithms just like them, which could make money - and yet, you could not deploy them because of a lack of capital. Now you see all these companies making money doing exactly the same as what you can do - but you do not have this opportunity, simply because you don't have enough money. Would you still think that's fair?
It's too difficult debating with fools.
As opposed to you; a person clearly unconcerned with right and wrong - fair and unfair. Why even bother wasting my time with your immorality?
Economist is merely offered as a logical analogy, not for actual discussion. I am not saying anything about the usefulness of economist or otherwise. Substitute the word economist with "Some Resource" and try to understand the logic.
Any reference to your assertions?
Afterall, we must have a open and fair market based on everyone having the same money and resource.
You haven't addressed the point about you silly CBA example.
You haven't shown how they rob anyone,
You haven't shown that they are HFT bots,
You havn't commented about them more likely to be oppy bots,
or execution bots,
or arb bots,
Now you haven't addressed the point that anyone can actually do this if they are smart enough. Its not unfair access. You come up with the profitable algo I'll show you how to have the same access. I'll show you how you can fund it with very little money from yourself. This is your whole point isn't it? That its only available to some?. But you are wrong. You don't know what the hell ya talking about
I can't possibly make such an algorithm without thorough testing - which implies I require the access before I have the algorithm. Would you be interested in purchasing the colocation at the ASX building for me for a few years while I develop my algorithm? I'll split profits with you 50/50 :dunno:
Utter nonsense. You again have shown you do not know what you are talking about. Anyone can test with data that cost about $40 month.
And again you dodge all questions. :bunny:
The more you talk the more I KNOW you cannot trade to save yourself. That you haven't a friggin clue about markets.
Are you serious? How is data for $40 a month going to replicate the conditions of thousands of buy and sell orders - many of which do not even get executed, coming in microsecond timings?
Just OMFG. I pretty sure I'm as close as it gets to a human HFTer. And I'm also pretty sure you are clueless. thats not a baseless insult. I'm will to prove I can trade and I'm willing to pay to see what we all suspect. You cannot trade.Do I know what HFTing does?
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