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Afghanistan

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Ferret said:
I find it really hard to understand how the Taliban retained sufficient support from the population to remain strong through the last 20 years. Maybe it's my western mindset.

I really feel for the people of Afghanistan.
Click to expand...

Maybe the force of arms ?

Arming the general population may have been better than arming a few soldiers. If the Taliban came into a village a tried any funny business, the citizens could wipe them out.
 
SirRumpole said:
Maybe the force of arms ?

Arming the general population may have been better than arming a few soldiers. If the Taliban came into a village a tried any funny business, the citizens could wipe them out.
Click to expand...

Yeah. NO !! If villagers ended up with weaponry then they would be instantly assumed to be Taliban by the current (now ex) government. Bang bang your dead

And if you think a few guns held by villagers would be sufficient to stop a determined Taliban group .. Well they don't have the Seven Samurai to co-ordinate them do they ? Sorry I don't think that was going to work out well.

Anyway this how it has all worked out to date.

Seyed is a tiler by day, but after 20 years of peace, he's once again preparing to defend his home

The Taliban is advancing across Afghanistan and only a few key cities remain under government control. The city of Mazar-i-Sharif is the last battle in the north.
www.abc.net.au
 
Its pretty obvious the ex military didn't give a stuff about much except saving their own skins. Locals know who are the villagers and who are the Taliban and would act accordingly.
 
My immediate fear is for the thousands of civilians packed into the civilian side of the airport. Only the military side is protected by US and other soldiers. What happens when the last of the soldiers leave? You will have thousands of civilians readily identified as anti-Taliban (because they want to leave) all in the same unprotected location.
 
China is a few moves ahead....


Afghanistan’s Mineral Resources Are a Lost Opportunity and a Threat to National Security

In a January 2020 article, The Diplomat warned about critical rare earth elements and mineral reserves in Afghanistan that could put the U.S. at risk if they fell into the wrong hands. Just 18 months later, the American-hating Taliban have taken control of the country and China is waiting in the wings.​
​
The Diplomat reports:​
​
Without a coherent strategy, Afghanistan’s vast mineral resources represent both a lost opportunity and a threat to national security.​
​
Torn by four decades of war and desperate poverty, Afghanistan is believed to be sitting on one of the richest troves of minerals in the world. The value of these resources has been roughly estimated between $1-3 trillion.​
​
Afghanistan has vast reserves of gold, platinum, silver, copper, iron, chromite, lithium, uranium, and aluminum… The United States Geological Survey (USGS), through its extensive scientific research of minerals, concluded that Afghanistan may hold 60 million metric tons of copper, 2.2 billion tons of iron ore, 1.4 million tons of rare earth elements (REEs) such as lanthanum, cerium, neodymium, and veins of aluminium, gold, silver, zinc, mercury, and lithium. According to Pentagon officials, their initial analysis at one location in Ghazni province showed the potential for lithium deposits as large as those of Bolivia, which has the world’s largest known lithium reserves. The USGS estimates the Khanneshin deposits in Helmand province will yield 1.1.-1.4 million metric tons of REEs. Some reports estimate Afghanistan REE resources are among the largest on earth.​
​
REEs have become essential part of modern technology. They are used in cell phones, televisions, hybrid engines, computers, lasers, and batteries. U.S. Congressional findings have called REEs critical to national security. REEs are [also] key to the production of tank navigation systems, missile guidance systems, missile defense components, satellites, and military communications systems.​
​
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Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi held meetings with Taliban co-founder Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar in the northern Chinese city of Tianjin on July 28th.​







.​
 
What a cluster, blood on our hands so it seems, failed those that saved casualties for our men on the ground feeling for those that served and feel let down.

I can forgive the SAS for lack of discipline due to ridiculous number of rotations but the government and bureaucrats siting in ivory towers not so much.
 
China and not Russia ??

after all Russia has a ready access to Afghanistan , and though their machinery is less hi-tech than some , robust might be the way to go in a land-locked land ,

but time will tell the West has had 20 years to prove how 'beneficial and supportive ' they are , a straight-dealer could go a long way ( remember some relationship with Iran is far from impossible either )

now one tweak that MIGHT be possible , is for the Pakistani 'tribal lands ' unite with Afghanistan
 
It should be noted that Trump wanted to bring the Taliban to the Whitehouse in a sign of legitimacy of what has now played out. My guess is he wanted to strike a deal with the Taliban. Which as dirty as it may feel, would have been the most favourable outcome. As we know Trump didn't mind dealing with shitbags and there's a tonne of minerals.

Good chance if you enrich a country the people may benefit.

Biden has completely fcked it from here it seems. Even now he is on bloody holidays.
 

I think it was going to be f***** up no matter what. Do you honestly think if Trump were still in power he would have achieved a different result by pulling the troops out May 1st? , 3.5 months earlier. As someone eloquently put it, Trump couldn't spell Afghanistan even if you gave him the first 8 letters.

There is nothing the Taliban would have agreed to with Trump that might have saved the situation that they wouldn't also agree to with Biden. They don't give a rats ass who is in the White House.

It's a mess, but Biden is being stoic about it when he suggests there is no other alternative. They tried, they failed and now it's time to get out of there. It's the classic damned if you do and damned if you don't.
 
It was conditions based with Trump and he listened to the people he was supposed to.

I'm sorry but this is a bloody mess that no one recommended. Let's remember Obama/Biden's track record in the middle East when Isis blew through. That was a continuing mess until Trump showed up and actually listened to the advice. Let's get it from the lips of an idiot:


Trying to blame Trump for this mess is laughable. He ain't in charge.
The end goal was for an exit with minimal collateral. Trump was good at delegating in these situations and he didn't give two figs about war. He also made sure no more US troops were killed at the negotiating table.
Trump was erratic enough for nations to back off. But I think he wanted to negotiate the Taliban over (whether possible or not).

Biden is a fking mess of real world consequences. And every nation knows he is a weak prick. Russia waltzed into Ukraine under Obama/Biden, Isis under Obama/Biden and now Taliban. Great record there.
 
The Taliban were always going to eventually take back power. It was either through years of bloodshed or a handover. And what we got essentially was a handover.

The mess is that we didn't get people out in time. I'm not sure what conditions Biden placed on the Taliban takeover either.

Sucks for the Afghanistan people. But seems they didn't really want it. Either way everyone got an ending that Hollywood can make a movie about.

There is a lot of propaganda going around about Taliban and US. But so far both seems to be sticking to some sort of agreement.
Taliban have said they wanted peace. My biggest guess is that they know how much money is at stake if they stuff this up.
 
The excellent Peter Hartcher in the Age points out that the Taliban now own all the massive weaponry given to the Afghanistan Army and for the first time the Taliban now have an airforce!

I mean they could decide to invade a neighbouring country if they wanted.

He also points out we are dreaming if we don't think the country will now be a safe haven for Al Quada.
 
Also looks like Pakistan were deeply involved.
Arming and coordinating the disparate tribal militia groups that make up the Taliban.
 
This is the part where I think Biden made a deal. Under Republican they were going to strip out equipment. Trump must have been advised that the Taliban were going to take over no matter what. I'm not sure why Biden would have thought differently.

Peter is just bleating. Some of these dckheads are the same ones whinging about being there in the first place. Or how we should exit. Well exit they did.

The fact is we don't know where this is going to swing to. At the moment it's just fear pr0n for reporters. Taliban seem to want some form of peace. They now have the weaponry to enforce that amongst the warring tribes.

Unfortunately democracy for peace didn't work over 20 years. So say hello to oppression. Horrible reality for many.
 
Knobby22 said:
Also looks like Pakistan were deeply involved.
Arming and coordinating the disparate tribal militia groups that make up the Taliban.
Click to expand...
Considering Bin laden was living there.
I heard Russia was also arming them.
Maybe it was payback.
 
It reminds me of how Australians have surrendered to Tyranny with nary a squeak.

We, of all people, shouldn't be surprised.
 
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