Afghanistan

[basilio]

God help them': former Defence chief on Afghans who helped Australians​

By political reporter Matthew Doran

A former Defence chief has criticised delays in evacuating Australians and local interpreters and contractors who supported ADF personnel in Afghanistan.

Retired Admiral Chris Barrie was Chief of the Defence Force when Australia entered Afghanistan in 2001, and fears Afghan nationals will bear the brunt of Taliban reprisals.

"It was in April that we said we wouldn't be there any longer, and it was in April that we started to forecast the need for all of this to happen," he told The World Today program on ABC Radio.

"And I don't know why we suddenly found ourselves so caught out and unprepared to do the work.

"At the moment, it doesn't look very hopeful to me for a lot of those families and people who helped us when we were there.

"I have read a litany of reasons why this was going to take weeks, months and years, and people were having to be processed — now we find the very ugly truth that we've just left it far too late."

Admiral Barrie said the only hope for Afghans left behind is if they managed to get access to accommodation arranged by the United States.

"There is absolutely no question that we left it far too late to try and do anything about the people who helped us," he said.

"I think it's terrible, I think it's a horrible story.

"It comes back to the same as the Vietnam experience, and then mark my words, I think there will be reprisals, there will be paybacks, there will be all sorts of brutalities that, I guess, will dribble out over the next period of time.

"For all of those people who helped us — God help them. God help them."

Exodus at Kabul airport as city falls to Taliban — as it happened

Thousands of Afghans and foreigners are fleeing Kabul, with helicopters seen ferrying people out of the US embassy and US and British troops being sent to secure the airport as the Taliban seizes control.

www.abc.net.au

 

[basilio]

Let's imagine the Taliban respect the US Joint Statement of Afganistan. Essentially playing nice and allowing people to leave if they wish. So who would be allowed to leave and far more crucially where would they go ? Which nations will accept 1000, 10,000, 100,000 Afgans who don't trust the Taliban ?

Technical Difficulties

www.state.gov

‘The world needs to stand with us’: UK Afghans watch on as tragedy unfolds

Afghans who fled their homeland to settle in the UK express their fears for family and friends left behind

www.theguardian.com

 

[moXJO]

It was months ago that there was complaints about giving Afghans asylum. They risked their lives and the lives of their families to help our troops. Our government decided to go as slow as possible.

 

[Knobby22]

Giving people this false promise of democracy and freedom makes me absolutely disgusted.
I'm thinking a deal was done behind the scenes as the US offered no air support and the afgan army was about 300,000 vs 70,000ish Taliban.

Some shifty back room deal was done. US had a very fast withdrawal from bases just before the Taliban used Blitz tactics. Something stinks.
And Kabul that was very modern thinking will now suffer under extremists.

Not only that but I question how well we are positioned in the new world?
Iran, Russia, China are making all the right power moves.

I tend to think its just incompetence.
Everywhere you look, from the start of the war, the period with Obama in charge, the peace deal with the Taliban by Trump, the failure to understand what is happening on the ground by Biden, and as for us, the planes to pick up the interpreters weren't even leaving for a few days, too late now.

And now you watch the USA suck up to the Taliban in the hope of getting some of the mineral wealth.
Honestly, they (and we) just don't get how it works.

 

[basilio]

It was months ago that there was complaints about giving Afghans asylum. They risked their lives and the lives of their families to help our troops. Our government decided to go as slow as possible.

If I remember correctly it was Peter Dutton who was insistent that each asylum seeker needed to be vetted veeerrrry caaarfully because we didn't want to risk a potential terrorist slipping into the country.

Yep. Let's just take our time and then let nature take it's course.

Scott Morrison ignores moral obligation to Afghan interpreters left behind

By Leo D’Angelo Fisher Scott Morrison infamously believed that the vaccine rollout was not a race. It was an attitude for which Australians are paying a heavy price. Now it’s the Afghan interpreters and support staff who served alongside Australian troops in Afghanistan that have been placed in...

www.australianveterannews.com

 

[basilio]

Why is the government taking so long?’

The problem is those hundreds – possibly thousands when including family members – who remain in Afghanistan and are terrified of Taliban reprisals as the Australian government dithers on visa checks and security clearances.

The resurgence of the Taliban once Western forces left the country was never in doubt but the Morrison government acts as if it’s been caught by surprise by the need for an urgent, co-ordinated response to an entirely predictable situation.

As Ishmael Hussainy asks: “Why is the Australian government taking so long checking our security clearances, doing character and health checks, when all these things were done regularly when we worked at the embassy?”

The government’s shameful delays in securing safe passage out of Afghanistan for Afghan nationals who placed themselves in harm’s way on behalf of Australia has been widely condemned as a moral failure by veterans, veteran advocates, former diplomats and even by John Howard, who as prime minister sent Australian troops to Afghanistan in 2001.

“Where it is clearly the case that they [Afghan interpreters and other staff] could be in danger of retribution, we have an obligation to help them if necessary, by giving them visas to come to live in Australia,” Howard told SBS News.

“That is a moral obligation we have. And it was a moral obligation that was shamefully discarded many years ago when we pulled out of Vietnam. I do not want to see a repetition of that failure in relation to Afghanistan."

Scott Morrison ignores moral obligation to Afghan interpreters left behind

By Leo D’Angelo Fisher Scott Morrison infamously believed that the vaccine rollout was not a race. It was an attitude for which Australians are paying a heavy price. Now it’s the Afghan interpreters and support staff who served alongside Australian troops in Afghanistan that have been placed in...

www.australianveterannews.com

Australian government slammed for 'shameful' exclusion of Afghan contractors from visa program

The federal government is being criticised for refusing refugee visas for contractors who worked with Australia in Afghanistan because they weren't directly employed by a government agency.

www.sbs.com.au

 

[explod]

The war on Afghanistan has ended in the defeat of the invaders​ by Editor

Contributed by Jim Hayes
So, the Taliban are now in Kabul and have almost secured their complete control over Afghanistan. Unpopular President Ashraf Ghani and other high officials fled the country, as the Presidential Place and airport fell. U.S. Embassy staff were evacuated by helicopter, in scenes reminiscent of the pull out of Vietnam in 1975.
President Ashraf Ghani leaves Afghanistan

The war on Afghanistan has ended in the defeat of the invaders​ by Editor Contributed by Jim Hayes So, the Taliban are now in Kabul and have almost secured their complete control over Afghanistan. Unpopular President Ashraf Ghani and other high officials fled the country, as the Presidential Place and airport fell. U.S. Embassy staff were evacuated by helicopter, in scenes reminiscent of the pull out of Vietnam in 1975. President Ashraf Ghani leaves Afghanistan Video from Al Jazeera English Australia sent troops and became implicated in all that followed, despite it being clear that most of the population was against it. The blame game takes off in Washington. It’s Trump’s or Biden’s fault hey argue. Not really. The war begun in 2001 was destined to end in failure from the beginning. It was an invasion and not a rescue mission. The Taliban, who were in government, were accused of being al Qaeda, and therefore implicated in the bombing of the Twin Towers in New York. This wasn’t true. The real reason for the invasion geopolitical, and the objective, to secure a gateway to the East and greater access to the Persian Gulf and its oil. It happens that in their earlier days, the Taliban and al Qaeda had received material support from the United States. They were useful against the then Soviet Union. The Soviets left Afghanistan defeated. They had not learned the lesson of history, which is, Afghans have a proud tradition of fighting off invaders. Just ask the British, who for years, tried to secure the country into their Empire. The United States, and the so-called Coalition of the Willing should also have taken notice of this lesson of history. Their invasion put the Taliban into the position of defenders of the nation against an occupation force, and their present march to victory would not be possible without the solid support of majority of the population. Disclosures by WikiLeaks and other sources have revealed that these invaders have committed crimes against humanity. Whatever one might think of the politics of these people and the reintroduction of their brand of Sharia law, the simple fact that this is what Afghans are choosing must be recognised. It is their right to make their own choice. After billions of dollars pumped in to build up the army around the imposed President, it has proven to be a useless force against the Taliban. Many of its soldiers welcome their coming. True, there are those trying to get out. Theirs is a bad situation, for many are seen as traitors to their own people. Much like those who collaborated with the Germans, in the countries they occupied during World War Two. It is also true that the Taliban view of punishment is likely to be harsh. The Taliban has promised an amnesty. The problem is that the depth of popular sentiment against some of them, may mean a different story on the ground. Others might fear the Taliban for reasons other than fear of being seen as traitors. It is also true that the coalition that used them is in no hurry to help. The best that can be done now, is to stop pushing around this long suffering country and allow it the space to rebuild. Hopefully, this will make it harder for the politicians and generals to get away with creating war for business and empire building. Editor | 16 August 2021 at 9:53 am | URL: https://the-pen.co/?p=38159

 

[moXJO]

I tend to think its just incompetence.
Everywhere you look, from the start of the war, the period with Obama in charge, the peace deal with the Taliban by Trump, the failure to understand what is happening on the ground by Biden, and as for us, the planes to pick up the interpreters weren't even leaving for a few days, too late now.

And now you watch the USA suck up to the Taliban in the hope of getting some of the mineral wealth.
Honestly, they (and we) just don't get how it works.

The moment you didn't see US air forces pound them into the dust, is the moment you knew a deal was made. Same with Taliban sitting outside of Kabul last night. They waited till westerners evacuated. They wanted a "peaceful transfer", this is the Taliban we are talking about.

If they wanted to really embarrass the US they would have swept through. A deal has been made.

 

[Knobby22]

The moment you didn't see US air forces pound them into the dust, is the moment you knew a deal was made. Same with Taliban sitting outside of Kabul last night. They waited till westerners evacuated. They wanted a "peaceful transfer", this is the Taliban we are talking about.

If they wanted to really embarrass the US they would have swept through. A deal has been made.

A deal from a position of weakness made at the last minute.

 

[moXJO]

A deal from a position of weakness made at the last minute.

Bigger agenda going on imo.

 

[Knobby22]

Bigger agenda going on imo.

The USA already signed the deal a couple of years before. Trump told them we were going to leave at a certain time. It gave the Taliban the chance to talk to all the US aligned Afghanis and threaten them and plan the invasion.

The speed shows how well it was planned.

The USA said they would back the army with money and munitions (but not air support as they had left) but they took away their staunchest allies back to the USA and Australia with the others promised a lift out if things went to ****. The remaining population must have felt angry and lost.

I think the USA thought that the Taliban would take back maybe 2/3rds of the territory like they had before the USA invasions but this was worse. And lets face it the USA was not loved by the populace.
Total PR (and humanitarian) disaster.

 

[moXJO]

The USA already signed the deal a couple of years before. Trump told them we were going to leave at a certain time. It gave the Taliban the chance to talk to all the US aligned Afghanis and threaten them and plan the invasion.

The speed shows how well it was planned.

The USA said they would back the army with money and munitions (but not air support as they had left) but they took away their staunchest allies back to the USA and Australia with the others promised a lift out if things went to ****. The remaining population must have felt angry and lost.

I think the USA thought that the Taliban would take back maybe 2/3rds of the territory like they had before the USA invasions but this was worse. And lets face it the USA was not loved by the populace.
Total PR (and humanitarian) disaster.

They literally took out air support while the Taliban was on the offensive (last month).
Either the US military leaders chosen are more stupid then I thought possible. Or they took off for a reason.

I find it hard to believe the Americans were absolutely this stupid. Their pull out date was meant to be August 31. If there was no other agenda then Biden and those in charge should be strung up.

But personally I think the quickest way to avoid huge casualties was a quick offensive like the Taliban carried out. That was only possible be communicating with the US. Then the US troops pulling up stumps quickly.
Otherwise this whole thing doesn't make a lot of sense.

 

[Knobby22]

Never underestimate stupidity in government. That's why I am not a conspiracist.

They thought the Government had way more troops and it was just some minor provinces being lost.

To be fair though, I don't know what else the USA could have done. Sure bomb them a bit on the way out but they already had cut a deal and wanted the Taliban to comply with it. They either stayed or left.

 

[basilio]

Jacinda Ahern is putting New Zealands hand up to evacuate troops and Afghan nationals who supported their troops.

New Zealand to deploy troops to aid citizens’ evacuation from Afghanistan

Jacinda Ardern said New Zealand would also attempt to evacuate Afghan nationals who worked with the country

www.theguardian.com

 

[Knobby22]

Jacinda Ahern is putting New Zealands hand up to evacuate troops and Afghan nationals who supported their troops.

New Zealand to deploy troops to aid citizens’ evacuation from Afghanistan

Jacinda Ardern said New Zealand would also attempt to evacuate Afghan nationals who worked with the country

www.theguardian.com

Bit late now!

 

[moXJO]

Never underestimate stupidity in government. That's why I am not a conspiracist.

They thought the Government had way more troops and it was just some minor provinces being lost.

To be fair though, I don't know what else the USA could have done. Sure bomb them a bit on the way out but they already had cut a deal and wanted the Taliban to comply with it. They either stayed or left.

I do think a deal was done on a US quick withdrawal during a Taliban offensive. Realistically you get the least amount of casualties. And there's a few reasons why I think this happened.

1. US was never going to get a cohesive Afghanistan. And wanted out.

2. Talks with Taliban have been ongoing.

3. US pretty much grounded the Afghanistan airforce after taking tech support away.

4. US let this offensive take place despite military leaders screaming about the outcome.

5. Intelligence network were all over this for months. The build-up was known. It was a major offensive that was noticed.

6. US troops were rushed out of many zones except Kabul. So far I haven't heard any contact between them and the Taliban.

Handing back in this manner means we didn't see troops dying and screaming out for help for months on end. US can and will blame afgan forces for the loss. US doesn't need to rush back in and redeploy troops as the Taliban is already in control. No more dead and injured soldiers coming home.

Not a conspiracy theory. It's the option that makes the most sense. Beyond Biden and his military picks being so stupid, but also so incredibly lucky that this just haphazardly happened like this.

This was an exit in which a deal was cut.

 

[basilio]

Bit late now!

Not sure about that. The airport is open. They have indicated that diplomatic personnel can leave. Jacinda's statement that she wants to pull out a number of civilians and their families is clearly ahead of the "formal" process of visas etc which have essentially run out of time.

It also says/suggests that New Zealand will settle these people. Good on her. John Howard will be the first to salute her.

I don't think it's something that should turn on some narrow legalism,” he said. (John Howard)

“If a group of people gave help to Australians, such that their lives and that of those immediately around them are in danger, we have a moral obligation to help them.

John Howard says Australia has a 'moral obligation' to help Afghan interpreters

EXCLUSIVE: The former prime minister has added his voice to calls for the government to do more to help Afghans who assisted Australia.

www.sbs.com.au

 

[Knobby22]

Not sure about that. The airport is open. They have indicated that diplomatic personnel can leave. Jacinda's statement that she wants to pull out a number of civilians and their families is clearly ahead of the "formal" process of visas etc which have essentially run out of time.

It also says/suggests that New Zealand will settle these people. Good on her. John Howard will be the first to salute her.

I don't think it's something that should turn on some narrow legalism,” he said. (John Howard)

“If a group of people gave help to Australians, such that their lives and that of those immediately around them are in danger, we have a moral obligation to help them.

John Howard says Australia has a 'moral obligation' to help Afghan interpreters

EXCLUSIVE: The former prime minister has added his voice to calls for the government to do more to help Afghans who assisted Australia.

www.sbs.com.au

The Taliban will just be shooting the ones left behind. Reports are that there have been shootings near the airport.
Any that get on the plane in 24 hours will be friends of the Taliban.

From the ABC:
A government source says given the "deteriorating security situation" in Kabul, it is unclear when aircraft will be able to land, but planning for an airlift is proceeding for when "the situation allows".

The ABC understands the government intends to bring home dual Australian-Afghanistan nationals, journalists and some former Kabul embassy staff.

 

[Ferret]

I find it really hard to understand how the Taliban retained sufficient support from the population to remain strong through the last 20 years. Maybe it's my western mindset.

I really feel for the people of Afghanistan.

 

[basilio]

Succinct comprehensive overview (IMO) of the current and future Afgan situation.

Experts react: The Taliban has taken Kabul. Now what?

Atlantic Council experts, many of whom have spent many years in the trenches on Afghanistan policy, weigh in on the fall of Kabul.

www.atlanticcouncil.org