ACTU Unionists Target Employers

The Mint Man · 22 June 2007

These are my questions and/or opinions, I don't see them as 'propaganda'.

I suppose this is what Labor calls increasing productivity and securing jobs for working Australians like myself

This is my opinion, I suppose it could have been a question but its not 'propaganda'. This came from my fustration following a week of question time filled with questions from Labor (based on false information) on the same topic. Now thats propaganda.

Its not a good look, which is why Rudd is taking action against them

This is fact, you can't say its not. why would Rudd boot them out?

but I for one seriously question if he is just doing it to limit the damage to his bid to become PM

opinion, hence 'I for one'

is a vote for Labor still a vote for the Unions? Probably!

question followed by my personal opinion.

Real propaganda is what the NSW labor party done in the lead up to the election. I refer you to the adds which said one thing via the voice over then said another via the text.... still dont get that bit?.

Cheers

moXJO · 22 June 2007

Rafa said:
i think that saying about short term memory should be modified to...
short term memory when it suits our point of view

that article in the Oz pretty much separates the facts from the hearsay and propaganda peddled by the libs and their supporters like mint man.

whilst at this stage, my vote is with labour, i withhold the right to change to the libs, in case labour policy is swings completely pro union!

So far, there is no reason to think that, both based on past performance by Hawke and Keating, as well as the rhethoric of the present Labor leadership group.

I don't intend to be sucked in by cunning baseless fear tactics!

Wow you missed out on the kickbacks you use to have to pay unions in Sydney to keep them off your worksite. The inability to fire anyone which meant you basically couldn’t employee people you didn’t know. The mess the docks were in etc. I probably chat to 3-7 small business owners a day and they all have the same axe to grind.

For construction the ABCC has been the saving grace. It has been responsible for significantly improving productivity. Its also an independent body separate from unions grubby reach. Under Rudd its abolished and back to Union controlled territory or fair work Australia.Yes this has the potential to be a big thing.

I actually like Rudd and think he would make a good PM but it seems he would be in an uphill battle with his own party before he even gets to the rest of the country.

Sprinter79 · 23 June 2007

No, the ABCC will stay under Rudd

Rafa · 23 June 2007

Thanks for your personal opinion...

I have provided evidence and reason, via the ariticle in the Australian, of steps taken by the Hawke and Keating govt's to counter the union movement...

Could you please provide the reasons why you have the personal opinon that Rudd will be different?

moXJO... yes the ABCC is most definitely staying.

moXJO · 24 June 2007

Rafa said:
Thanks for your personal opinion...

I have provided evidence and reason, via the ariticle in the Australian, of steps taken by the Hawke and Keating govt's to counter the union movement...

Could you please provide the reasons why you have the personal opinon that Rudd will be different?

moXJO... yes the ABCC is most definitely staying.

You provided one newspaper article as the history of how it was
Are you saying labor = liberals now under Rudd ?

moXJO · 24 June 2007

Sprinter79 said:
No, the ABCC will stay under Rudd

Till 2010 , will it be bled dry by then?.The Unions are pushing for it to be scrapped.

Sprinter79 · 24 June 2007

Yes the Unions are calling for it to be scrapped, as are some of the OHS and IR jurisdictions around Australia. They are a pain in the **** to deal with, and prevent people from reporting actual problems for fear of being taken to task by the ABCC.

moXJO · 24 June 2007

Sprinter79 said:
Yes the Unions are calling for it to be scrapped, as are some of the OHS and IR jurisdictions around Australia. They are a pain in the **** to deal with, and prevent people from reporting actual problems for fear of being taken to task by the ABCC.

The only people I know of personally with a problem with it atm is the unions.

The Mint Man · 25 June 2007

Rafa said:
Thanks for your personal opinion... .

No problem. Thats what a forum is for.

Could you please provide the reasons why you have the personal opinon that Rudd will be different?

Thats easy!
You see Rafa, the unions are the biggest contributors to Labors cause especially the CFMEU.
Without their funding the your rights art work ads wouldn't be splashed all over the TV, news papers or even childrens sports events:headshake etc.
You take the moral high ground a by accusing me of spreading propaganda, that’s fine but what do you think of the advertisements I just mentioned? Do you think they are not propaganda or pro Union?

Rudd's recent actions is simply damage control.

Cheers

Sprinter79 · 25 June 2007

The Mint Man said:
Thats easy!
You see Rafa, the unions are the biggest contributors to Labors cause especially the CFMEU.
Without their funding the your rights art work ads wouldn't be splashed all over the TV, news papers or even childrens sports events:headshake etc.
You take the moral high ground a by accusing me of spreading propaganda, that’s fine but what do you think of the advertisements I just mentioned? Do you think they are not propaganda or pro Union?

Rudd's recent actions is simply damage control.

Cheers

The Union's contributions to the Labor party are more than equaled by donations from big business to the Liberal party. The "Your Rights at Work Campaign" was run by the unions with union member's money. The "Your Rights at Work" campaign was not a Labor initiative.

Sprinter79 · 25 June 2007

moXJO said:
The only people I know of personally with a problem with it atm is the unions.

Since WorkChoices and the ABCC have come into effect, there have less calls to the WorkSafe and IR help lines (here in WA). Make of that what you will....

Sprinter79 · 25 June 2007

Re: CFMEU Unionists Target Employers

The title of this thread also needs to be changed, removing ACTU and replacing it with CFMEU, to more accurately describe the incidents.

moXJO · 25 June 2007

Sprinter79 said:
The Union's contributions to the Labor party are more than equaled by donations from big business to the Liberal party. The "Your Rights at Work Campaign" was run by the unions with union member's money. The "Your Rights at Work" campaign was not a Labor initiative.

Big business donates to both sides both liberal and labor.The are putting together there own advertising blits due to the propaganda from the union campaign.

Sprinter79 · 25 June 2007

It is also rumoured that the Libs have topped up the coffers to 'assist' the advertising campaign.

It's a bastard to work out the nitty gritty of political donations, but it is a fair generalisation that the Unions don't donate to the Libs, and big business don't donate as much to Labor as they do to the Libs.

Rafa · 25 June 2007

The Mint Man said:
You take the moral high ground a by accusing me of spreading propaganda, that’s fine but what do you think of the advertisements I just mentioned? Do you think they are not propaganda or pro Union?

Agree, 100% propaganda... Thats the problem now a days, its so hard to have a proper debate without just being fed either pro union or pro liberal propaganda...

the truth lies somewhere in the middle...

So can we stop churning out pre conceived opinions or propaganda like what you've said below...

The Mint Man said:
Rudd's recent actions is simply damage control.

and actually have a proper debate...

I have already said, that if in the course of the year, i see rudd heavily favouring unions to the detriment of all else, i will reconsider my vote, just like many people have seen howard favour big business more than the ordinary worker since getting absolute power over the country in the last election and are reconsidering their vote!

Sprinter79 · 25 June 2007

With reference to propaganda, I refer you to one of my previous posts. This is what the Unions have been saying will happen, and here is a company offering to do exactly that:

Sprinter79 said:
This seems as good a place as any to post some key points from an advertorial in the Hire & Rental Journal (Nov 2006). This advertorial uses the term 'collective agreement' to make reference to an AWA: (Direct quotes from the journal)

*The 'collective agreement' can exclude or modify all award conditions

*The 'collective agreement' can be tailored to meet your business needs and circumvent paying penalties, allowances and shift loadings prescribed by the relevant awards

*The 'collective agreement' sets clear parameters of work and employers have a choice as to whether overtime is paid at loaded rates or at flat hourly rates

*Can be designed to exclude the payment of severance pay, allowances and penalty rates

*Inclusion of a clear notice provision to avoid claims for reasonable notice

*Employers can select additional terms in order to suit their businesses (without consultation with employees)

*Public holiday penalty rates can be excluded or modified

No mention is made of what trade-offs should be offered to the employees for the watering down of their conditions in this add.

Now, tell me where the balance is here....

This isn't propaganda, this is actually happening.

ACTU Unionists Target Employers

The Mint Man

moXJO

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Sprinter79

Rafa

moXJO

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Sprinter79

moXJO

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The Mint Man

Sprinter79

Sprinter79

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moXJO

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Sprinter79

Rafa

Sprinter79

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