$5000 to $50000 in two years - let the odyssey begin

[bunyip]

Isn't the whole reason why SITM are "educators" is because they cannot hack it in the real world!

That's possibly true in the case of SITM. However I don't think we can make a blanket statement that all educators are doing it because they can't trade themselves.

Darvas became an educator of sorts when he was talked into writing a book about his method after news of his astounding trading success leaked out.
It would be ludicrous to suggest he couldn't trade.....he made his trading statements available for scrutiny by a team of experts.

Nick Radge is an educator, but also a successful trader himself.

My observation is that the shonky educators all have a few things in common with each other. First, they charge an outlandish price of many thousands of dollars. Second, they come on strong with grandiose claims about their own trading prowess, and the prowess you'll supposedly develop yourself once you've completed their course.

The genuine educators who are competent traders themselves don't need to make outlandish claims or fleece people by charging excessively.

Bunyip

 

[insider]

PAYING 4000 DOLLARS FOR A COURSE IS NUTS.... I RECKON MONEY COULD HAVE BEEN BETTER SPENT ON A STOCK BROKER'S PROFESSIONAL OPINION... OR EVEN BETTER READ MANY OF THE FORUMS AND ABSORB THE EXPERIENCE, EXPERTICE AND SUGGESTIONS NOT ONE BUT MANY INVESTORS SHARE.

 

[Milk Man]

PAYING 4000 DOLLARS FOR A COURSE IS NUTS.... I RECKON MONEY COULD HAVE BEEN BETTER SPENT ON A STOCK BROKER'S PROFESSIONAL OPINION... OR EVEN BETTER READ MANY OF THE FORUMS AND ABSORB THE EXPERIENCE, EXPERTICE AND SUGGESTIONS NOT ONE BUT MANY INVESTORS SHARE.

I agree. Except for the STOCKBROKERS part.

 

[nevieboy]

I agree. Damn stockbrockers, they gave me nothing but grief in the last few years.

 

[bunyip]

A crisis of faith – somewhat urgent

I am having a crisis of faith as to wether to follow through with the training. In short I can get a full refund if I choose to hand back all of the course by lunch time of the first day of the residential training – this Saturday.


I need to make this decision on Friday night (prior to attendance of seminar).
Many thanks
damok

So, Damok........Keep us in suspense no longer!
Will you return the SITM materials tomorrow and get a refund?
Or will you keep them and the accompanying $4,000 hole in your bank account?

Bunyip

 

[nioka]

Not only that, but a big recession may be coming, so u may get a negative return!

http://www.depression2007.com/

thx
MS

Todays news that the current account deficit is nudging $500billion must surely bring THE DAY closer?

 

[GreatPig]

Todays news that the current account deficit is nudging $500billion must surely bring THE DAY closer?

Every day that passes brings it a day closer...

GP

 

[damok]

well, my decision is.......

I'm going to get a refund. I have taken all your good advise and am going to go the more sensible and economical solution.

But to make sure I keep down this path of eternal wealth, or at least learning... I'm also taking some of your recommendations.

I am evaluating three pieces of software:
AmiBroker
Incredible Charts
Pro Charts Egoli

I have downloaded a bunch of Ebooks on technical analysis, and have ordered copies of both Nick Radge's 'Adaptive Analysis' and Frank Watkins 'Darvis Box Trading'.

I will obviously be coming back here often to get further advise. I've discovered in the last few days just how much is available online, and how much I really have to learn!!

So thanks everyone for your advise. If anyone has any other suggestions - please let me know!!

Warmest thanks,
damok

 

[It's Snake Pliskin]

well, my decision is.......

I'm going to get a refund. I have taken all your good advise and am going to go the more sensible and economical solution.

But to make sure I keep down this path of eternal wealth, or at least learning... I'm also taking some of your recommendations.

I am evaluating three pieces of software:
AmiBroker
Incredible Charts
Pro Charts Egoli

I have downloaded a bunch of Ebooks on technical analysis, and have ordered copies of both Nick Radge's 'Adaptive Analysis' and Frank Watkins 'Darvis Box Trading'.

I will obviously be coming back here often to get further advise. I've discovered in the last few days just how much is available online, and how much I really have to learn!!

So thanks everyone for your advise. If anyone has any other suggestions - please let me know!!

Warmest thanks,
damok

Damok,

I see you have decided to dispense with the investment of a system and software.
It`s "advice". Professionals "advise" which we cannot do.

Good luck with it.
Snake

 

[bunyip]

well, my decision is.......

I'm going to get a refund. I have taken all your good advise and am going to go the more sensible and economical solution.

But to make sure I keep down this path of eternal wealth, or at least learning... I'm also taking some of your recommendations.

I am evaluating three pieces of software:
AmiBroker
Incredible Charts
Pro Charts Egoli

I have downloaded a bunch of Ebooks on technical analysis, and have ordered copies of both Nick Radge's 'Adaptive Analysis' and Frank Watkins 'Darvis Box Trading'.

I will obviously be coming back here often to get further advise. I've discovered in the last few days just how much is available online, and how much I really have to learn!!

So thanks everyone for your advise. If anyone has any other suggestions - please let me know!!

Warmest thanks,
damok

Damok

I believe you've made a wise decision.
I suggest you also get a free trial of Frank Watkins 'Pro Trader' software. And I've heard good reports about 'Bull Charts', which is also available for a free trial.
My further suggestion is to avoid putting too much study into Technical Analysis. There's an enormous amount of information available with regard to TA, just as there's an enormous number of TA tools and indicators.
Much of the information and many of the indicators and tools are irrelevant....all they do is clutter a traders mind and make it difficult for him to reach rational trading decisions. The average beginner works on the premise of "the more information I have, the better".
But believe me, with TA it's very much a case of "the simpler your system, the better you'll trade".
The simplicity of the Darvas method is one of the reasons why it's such an effective and robust trading system.
Understand one thing about trading......THE MOST YOU CAN ACHIEVE IS TO TAKE BITES OUT OF TRENDING MOVES.
You can do this by using simple methods such as buying dips during uptrends, and shorting rallies during downtrends.
Or you can attempt to use complex methods.....Astro, Gann, Elliott Wave etc.
If there's a simple way to do something, and there's a complex way, I'll take the simple way every time. In trading, it doesn't get any simpler than just finding a good trend, then hitching a ride on the damn thing. A simple system like Darvas will enable you to do this consistently. And if you do this consistently, and make sure you strictly limit your losses, you can trade very profitably.

Enjoy the journey. All the best.

Bunyip

 

[coyotte]

40% of WHAT ???
Total Capital ?, Turnover Over ? or Trading Cap @ Risk ?

Trader Pro what do you mean by only $100 per $5000 ?
Should that not be stated as "the Stop-Loss should be set a Max $100/ 2% Rule and not the max amount invested ?

Damok:
I will probably get howled down for this --- but get out of fairyland , Trading takes years of continuing learning and ever changing tacticts to the constantally changing markets --- first read and understand Guppy's ShareTrading , this will put you on a solid foundation of HOW and WHY T/A trading works .

Then go through the the forums to select the recomended reading (only a handfull of books worth their salt) --- settel on the style of trading to commence with ----- then open a account with IG Markets --- keep the trades to a low $ level so as to build up on hand expericence of the markets ( NO PAPER TRADING ) --- REINFORCE ESSENTIAL TRADING HABITS --
Then after around 12 months of constant practice, you can set claim to having started your appenticeship .

In the final round up though you will find most traders go full circle , dump all the frills and just settel on a few KISS methods that have naturally evolved
and revelled themselves during the learning process.

Programmed Software is only a tool to find the trades --- managing a trade becomes more a matter of instinct around the "price action" --- takes time , but the earlier you start well the quicker you get there

Cheers

 

[BentRod]

Damok,

If you want to learn TA then get Nicks Book and join The Chartist.

You'll probably learn more there in 1 month for $55 than you will for $4000 @ SITM....lol

My opinion only BTW.

Bent.

 

[damok]

ladies and gentlemen, I am now $4000 richer (or something like that)

thanks for your advice.

 

[wayneL]

ladies and gentlemen, I am now $4000 richer (or something like that)

thanks for your advice.

Well done damok, I think you have made a good decision.

Don't forget to check out the bookshop here at ASF (Of which I have no financial interest)

Cheers

PS agree with BentRod

 

[michael_selway]

ladies and gentlemen, I am now $4000 richer (or something like that)

thanks for your advice.

which stock(s) did u buy?

thx

MS

 

[bunyip]

ladies and gentlemen, I am now $4000 richer (or something like that)

thanks for your advice.

Damok

What was the reaction from SITM when you told them you were bailing out?
Did they try to change your mind?

Bunyip

 

[Milk Man]

Damok

What was the reaction from SITM when you told them you were bailing out?
Did they try to change your mind?

Bunyip

Well duh! : I'd know, I used to sell Kirby vacuum cleaners.

 

[TraderPro]

This has been an interesting thread! Damok - you made a good decision...

What new traders should understand is...
1. You don't need to forecast markets to be able to trade profitably.
2. You don't need to spend thousands of dollars, or even hundreds, to get yourself a profitable trading system.

I totally agree...

Yeah I did say: "if it were a scam, then they would have been eliminated a long time ago..."

What I meant was that they weren't some illegal scam like pyramid selling.

There was this business from US that came to Australia trying to sell their web hosting products (StoresOnline) ... They totally overpriced their products and services and sold these to people under false promises. FairTrading and ACCC got onto their coattails and had them refund the people who bought into their dream. Now that's a scam...

The point is... with that case, the internet hosting prices can be benchmarked to the market prices - they charged something like $3000 for a website+ hosting at $30 per month etc... when you can have it done up for less than that starting at $10...

With trading education there is no benchmark to match it with.

Of course, if SITM makes and false or misleading claims in their presentation -that too will classify them as scamming their way to make a buck...

 

[dj_420]

I agree about the comment of stockbrokers, i asked some advice of a relative's stockbroker on these particular stocks CBH, JML, CTO, MTN, SMM. a day later he came back and his response was that "these stocks are all highly speculative uranium explorers and i wouldnt invest in them".

obviously he didnt even look at what each company does/strategy/fundamentals anything!!

to start CBH are currently producing, JML will be producing zinc, CTO will begin pouring gold, MTN and SMM are sitting on large u deposits.

If i took this particular brokers advice i would have missed out on a run from all these stocks. i say do your own research and not trust the opinions of people who dont understand your trading plan.

my plan is to find undervalued stocks and invest for the long term, which i think ive done.

anyone else had a bad experience with stockbroker??

 

[Magdoran]

First time poster, and to be honest just discovered the forum tonight.... but enjoying the learning process.

So a bit about my plan. I have signed up for the SITM Smarter Starter Pack and am doing the course this weekend. Now after reading some of the forums I had second thoughts for a while, but I stand by that decision. I guess my rational is that 4 weeks ago I knew nothing about shares, now I have a reasonable idea of the mechanics. I understand the trading system that they propose, and it works well in my head. Outlaying the $4000 hurt a bit, but I figure that I will have the skills the rest of my life, and considering how much uni costs... well it doesn't sound so bad in perspective. Plus that outlay certainly inspires me to learn the material!!

So, I have just submitted the application for my CDIA Commsec account, which I guess I will only need to use for trading execution (the SITM software seems to tell me everything else I need as to when to enter/exit the trade). I'm starting with $5000, will invest a further $500 per fortnight (alloted from my salary) and hope to have $50000 in two years.

Now I'm not sure if this is a realistic goal or not. I have papertraded, and I've had some success. Though I have not made a single real trade as yet. My calculations would require me to make an annual return of about 40% to achieve my goal (happy to be corrected, I'm no maths guru). Once again, I'm not sure if this is a little over confident.

I intend to to trade purely in shares for the first six months or so before transitioning to either Options or CFD's. I'm quite happy with leverage and managing risk with stop losses. I would spend the first six months getting a better 'feel' for the market, getting my trading plan just right, and learning as much as possible (probably from you guys) on higher leverage trading.

I (like many) am attracted to the idea of only spending a couple of hours a day, wherever I am in the world trading shares. I fully appreciate that $50000 isn't a good capital base to plan to retire on or invest professionally - if it extends my holiday in Rio from one year to two, then I would be more than happy!

So my questions are:
*is this a realistic goal?
*is 40% expecting too much?
*what does a competent trader working with CFDs or Options expect as an annual return?
*how much time would your average swing trader need to spend per day trading (VERY subjective I know, or how much time do YOU spend trading)?

over to you and your expertise!

cheers,
damok

Damok,


Please have a good look at a range of threads for a broader discussion about technical analysis approaches than are listed here which are quite narrow. Why not try reading the following threads (I have certainly ventured a host of ideas on these threads that I don’t want to duplicate here):

• “Books on Technical Analysis”,
• “Good TA books: Any suggestions?”,
• “Testing a mechanical plan”,
• “Is T/A based on hope?”

Also, if you're interested in software with a Gann swing chart capability, have a look at Gannalyst (not sure if will do Mac though):

http://www.gannalyst.com/


Regards


Magdoran