2015 NSW Election

[SirRumpole]

Looks like power prices is the big issue in this election, with the Baird government set to privatise the poles and wires.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-03-...pass-privatisation-electricity-assets/6291254

Living out of Sydney as I do it's unlikely I will use any of the much vaunted infrastructure supposedly funded by asset "recycling", and power prices are certainly a drain on my budget, so I will be showing my opposition to the proposed sell off by not voting LNP at this election.

Hopefully after the Qld result the pollies will get the idea that we don't want essential infrastructure in the hands of commercial interests.

 

[Knobby22]

Do you trust NSW Labor yet? Seems too soon to me.

 

[SirRumpole]

Do you trust NSW Labor yet? Seems too soon to me.

It's a matter of degree. The only thing I trust any politician to do is to be a politician, but if they go out on a "don't sell assets" policy and then go back on it then they will reap electoral displeasure at the next election.

Iemma and Costa tried to sell the electricity grid, and where are they now ? I hope Foley learns that lesson.

 

[noco]

Palaszczuk in Queensland said she would not sell any assets under a government she led and Foley is preying on the same vintage mantra....Palszczuk lied and so would Foley.....Labor will do anything to gain power...Lies, Lies and more lies.
Plalaszczuk is about to sell assets in Queensland.

 

[moXJO]

by not voting LNP at this election.

.

Wait???
Was that meant to be a shock announcement

 

[SirRumpole]

Wait???
Was that meant to be a shock announcement

Well not really, but in other respects I don't have much against the current NSW government who seem fairly reasonable. Power prices are a killer for me at the moment and I think it's a big issue for a lot of people.

 

[Bill M]

i am a swinging voter and I won't be voting for either of the major parties. I do not agree with the LNP policy of selling the electricity grid so they are out. As for Labor, they did nothing for this state infrastructure and transport wise for the many years they were in. That leaves me with a minor party choice and I am keeping that vote secret.

Best thing about this election is that it is the first one where you can vote online, that is if you fall into the right category. Online voting should become a choice for everybody, the sooner the better.

http://www.votensw.info/early_voting/ivote?gclid=CI_vyZ3UqMQCFdcTvQod7x4Adw

 

[Logique]

Premier Mike Baird has called NSW Labor dishonest on poles and wires. It's a 99 year lease on 49% of the network, which releases immediate millions for infrastructure spending.

Paul Keating backs electricity privatization. NSW Labor sold off the TAB. We're seeing a fear campaign by NSW Labor to appease the Unions and try to win an election.

If you have solar panels, the only way left for the utilities to get at you is to keep raising the fixed supply charge. If NSW voters want the Unions to be in charge of the movement of supply charges, with their 26% employer Super contribs and Shower Allowances, then good luck to them.

Mike Baird says he will reduce the utility fixed supply charges, and I'd believe him before the Unions or NSW Labor.

 

[noco]

Premier Mike Baird has called NSW Labor dishonest on poles and wires. It's a 99 year lease on 49% of the network, which releases immediate millions for infrastructure spending.

Paul Keating backs electricity privatization. NSW Labor sold off the TAB. We're seeing a fear campaign by NSW Labor to appease the Unions and try to win an election.

If you have solar panels, the only way left for the utilities to get at you is to keep raising the fixed supply charge. If NSW voters want the Unions to be in charge of the movement of supply charges, with their 26% employer Super contribs and Shower Allowances, then good luck to them.

Mike Baird says he will reduce the utility fixed supply charges, and I'd believe him before the Unions or NSW Labor.

And here is more lies from Labor as explained by Piers Akerman.

Labor could not lay straight bed if you paid them.....They have to stretched the truth just to gain votes.



http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/...|heading|homepage|homepage&itmt=1426383243773

LUKE Foley, the Labor Party and its trade union supporters are running one of the most dishonest election campaigns in the 191-year history of the NSW legislature.

The lies are blatant… They have been repeated in advertisements and in speeches and interviews and although they can be easily disproved, they are in danger of being swallowed by a generation of lazy voters…

The biggest lie of all is that electricity prices will rise in NSW if the government leases the electricity network. Take it from Rod Sims, the independent chairman of the consumer body the ACCC, that prices will be lower under private ownership…

[Foley’s] policy is repudiated by senior Labor figures who endorse the leasing of the poles and wires…

David Borger, a former Lord Mayor of Parramatta, former NSW Minister for Roads and Housing in both the Rees and Keneally Labor governments just last month said: “Using the proceeds from the lease of the metropolitan ‘poles and wires’ is the preferred method for funding essential transport, health and other infrastructure projects.”

As did former Labor Premier Morris Iemma: “The alternatives to (asset recycling) are taxation...”

And he was only echoing former NSW Labor Treasurer Michael Costa, who last June said: “Mike Baird’s proposal for a partial privatisation is moderate, sensible and the right thing to do."…

(F)ormer premier Bob Carr was on the money in August, 2010: “This would have been a terrific deal for NSW taxpayers.”

 

[McLovin]

Best thing about this election is that it is the first one where you can vote online, that is if you fall into the right category. Online voting should become a choice for everybody, the sooner the better.

http://www.votensw.info/early_voting/ivote?gclid=CI_vyZ3UqMQCFdcTvQod7x4Adw

I'm voting online because I won't be in the country on polling day. There's nothing really stopping anyone from signing up for iVote, it's not as though you have to prove that you won't be in NSW on election day.

 

[Smurf1976]

So far as power prices are concerned, an observation from history:

1990 - we had the third cheapest electricity in the OECD, supplied by vertically integrated, state owned, monopoly utilities.

1990's and 00's - the industry was deregulated, partly privatised and opened up to competition so as to "improve efficiency".

2015 - Australia has amongst the most expensive electricity in the world, with SA (privatised) at the top of the list.

Conclusion - deregulation, competition and part privatisation leads to higher prices, not lower, as evidenced by the actual outcomes achieved thus far.

Only a fool would believe that more of the same will achieve a different outcome to what we've already seen. Private ownership could be done sensibly, but not under the current industry structure which clearly isn't working well for consumers or the national economy. For all the fuss made about carbon taxes, the reforms to the industry have cost ordinary small consumers far more than the carbon tax and yet hardly a word is said.

 

[Logique]

You would never be deliberately misleading Smurf, so tell the whole story.

- solar RECS scheme (expensive energy, especially if you don't have it) costs passed on
- true supply cost previously partially hidden within state bureaucracies
- past under-investment in renewal/maintenance of the supply network
- hydro electric expansion shut down
- carbon tax
- massive population growth in the cities, necessitating unprecedented poles and wires roll out, upgrading and maintenance

Poles and wires are the most expensive part of electricity supply. The choice for NSW voters later this month, is who can best manage this, while keeping a lid on price increases.

 

[Smurf1976]

- solar RECS scheme (expensive energy, especially if you don't have it) costs passed on

There's a cost there certainly, but it's not particularly large in most states. That said, I do agree that the high rate FIT's were always going to lead to trouble once adoption moved beyond the small scale demonstration stage and we ended up with solar salespeople at shopping centres. In NSW specifically, paying the 60c gross FIT was just silly and was always going to end badly.

- true supply cost previously partially hidden within state bureaucracies

Might have happened somewhere, but in most cases the reverse was true with the power industry either carrying things out on behalf of government, or outright handing over cash. That certainly happened at least in Vic, Tas and SA. Not sure about NSW.

- past under-investment in renewal/maintenance of the supply network

As anyone who has ever worked in a "blue collar" industry where the "economic rationalist" types have taken control will tell you, the first thing they always do is slash maintenance. That's a prelude to either running the whole operation into the ground or selling it off. Same pattern in everything from smelters to utilities - they run it down first, then either close or sell it. Makes the management look good in the short term, at which point such people always move on, but leaves a huge mess for whoever comes next. That applies regardless of whether it's publicly owned or private - just look at the disaster Pacific National left with the railways in Tas as one such example (why the state didn't force the company to pay up I'll never know - dodgy dealings by Labor there I suspect).

- hydro electric expansion shut down

No argument there, although that doesn't explain the cost increases in SA in particular which didn't have any hydro generation to start with.

- carbon tax

Wholesale electricity is still cheap, in real terms its' cheaper than it has ever been. It's transmission, distribution and retail soaking up the money not generation. The carbon tax only significantly impacted generation and in any event was limited to 2 years.

- massive population growth in the cities, necessitating unprecedented poles and wires roll out, upgrading and maintenance

I'll have to check the stats, but I'm pretty sure that Adelaide in particular, the place hardest hit by soaring prices, has had a relatively slow rate of population growth for quite some time. That's my understanding at least.

Poles and wires are the most expensive part of electricity supply. The choice for NSW voters later this month, is who can best manage this, while keeping a lid on price increases.

Transmission and distribution costs have gone through the roof, that's my point. Regardless of whether it's privately owned / leased (eg Vic and SA) or publicly owned (eg NSW or Tas) the cost has increased disproportionately. That comes down to the industry structure having fundamental flaws. Whether it's privately owned or public doesn't change that in itself.

If the NSW government, or the opposition, is worried about the cost of electricity in NSW then they need to realise that the problem isn't about ownership of a single part of the industry. The problem is with how it all operates and is regulated, who owns it being a far lesser issue. Simply changing who owns what does not lead to lower prices, unless there is some efficiency gain and/or lower rate of return.

Another question the voters of NSW might sensibly ask themselves is what legal protections exist to ensure that the money raised isn't spent on things of no lasting value? You sell / lease something today, what ensures that this money actually goes into new assets and isn't simply frittered away as seems to be occurring in SA, Vic and federally?

 

[Smurf1976]

Noting that this is the NSW Election thread, not an energy industry thread, I'll post some real prices and leave it at that for everyone to decide.

The following prices for NSW, Vic and SA are as charged by Momentum Energy (the retail arm of Hydro Tas) for residential supply. Rates for Tas are as charged by Aurora Energy (whose bulk supply is from HT).

Assumptions are that (1) the property has standard metering not time of use (2) I have taken the average peak rate price in situations where the rate varies according to quantity used or purpose. All prices are in cents to one decimal place.

Daily supply charge = NSW = 79.6, SA = 84.2, Tas = 126.2, Vic = 138.5

Peak consumption = Tas 19.8, Vic 23.9, NSW 26.2, SA 31.1

Off-peak (night only) = Vic 9.9, NSW 10.1, Tas 11.3, SA 16.7

Off-peak 2 (extended hours) = Tas 12.0, NSW 13.7, not available Vic and SA.

This is based on rates charged by Momentum / Aurora, so differences between states should not be attributable to retail but rather, to other aspects of the supply chain. As stated, I've taken the mid point where there is a price range.

So far as the NSW election is concerned, if they're going to claim that electricity prices will fall (or rise) in response to any particular action then if ought to be pretty easy for the proponents of such an idea to put some specific figures on it.

 

[noco]

And here is more lies from Labor as explained by Piers Akerman.

Labor could not lay straight bed if you paid them.....They have to stretched the truth just to gain votes.



http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/...|heading|homepage|homepage&itmt=1426383243773

LUKE Foley, the Labor Party and its trade union supporters are running one of the most dishonest election campaigns in the 191-year history of the NSW legislature.

The lies are blatant… They have been repeated in advertisements and in speeches and interviews and although they can be easily disproved, they are in danger of being swallowed by a generation of lazy voters…

The biggest lie of all is that electricity prices will rise in NSW if the government leases the electricity network. Take it from Rod Sims, the independent chairman of the consumer body the ACCC, that prices will be lower under private ownership…

[Foley’s] policy is repudiated by senior Labor figures who endorse the leasing of the poles and wires…

David Borger, a former Lord Mayor of Parramatta, former NSW Minister for Roads and Housing in both the Rees and Keneally Labor governments just last month said: “Using the proceeds from the lease of the metropolitan ‘poles and wires’ is the preferred method for funding essential transport, health and other infrastructure projects.”

As did former Labor Premier Morris Iemma: “The alternatives to (asset recycling) are taxation...”

And he was only echoing former NSW Labor Treasurer Michael Costa, who last June said: “Mike Baird’s proposal for a partial privatisation is moderate, sensible and the right thing to do."…

(F)ormer premier Bob Carr was on the money in August, 2010: “This would have been a terrific deal for NSW taxpayers.”

The latest poll in NSW is not good news for the Green/Labor left wing socialists.....It is pleasing to note common sense has prevailed in NSW and voters have finally woken up to Labor's lies.

Labor can fool some of the people half the time, half the people some of the but Labor cannot fool people all the time....Labor has come unstuck in this occasion irrespective of the fact that their comrade unions have spent millions of union members money on lies for Labor to gain office.....

What a shame the voters in Queensland have woken up too late.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...263969877?sv=961e083a8ddc32578fdc990135ce0ee2

 

[McLovin]

I'm voting online because I won't be in the country on polling day. There's nothing really stopping anyone from signing up for iVote, it's not as though you have to prove that you won't be in NSW on election day.

I just used the system. It was easy as pie. Took me literally 2 minutes. I look forward to when all voting is done that way.

I vote in the division of Sydney which is an interesting seat because of how it has traditionally straddled the city. It pulls in parts of the Eastern Suburbs (Woollahra, Paddington, Edgecliff, Elizabeth Bay, Potts Point) but also on the other side of the CBD more traditionally Labor/Green areas like Glebe, Ultimo, Redfern, Surry Hills. Because of redistribution it's gone from being a very safe seat for the sitting independant (who was backed by Clover Moore) to being on a margin of 0.3%.

 

[Bill M]

I just used the system. It was easy as pie. Took me literally 2 minutes. I look forward to when all voting is done that way.

I vote in the division of Sydney which is an interesting seat because of how it has traditionally straddled the city. It pulls in parts of the Eastern Suburbs (Woollahra, Paddington, Edgecliff, Elizabeth Bay, Potts Point) but also on the other side of the CBD more traditionally Labor/Green areas like Glebe, Ultimo, Redfern, Surry Hills. Because of redistribution it's gone from being a very safe seat for the sitting independant (who was backed by Clover Moore) to being on a margin of 0.3%.

Did you register today?

The reason I ask is that I registered yesterday and they said our 8 digit number would be sms'd to us on the 16th (today). I didn't get my 8 digit number. What did you do? I still can't vote.

Then I went on the website and it said it was shutting down for maintenance between 4.30 and 7.30 pm due to overwhelming demand.

 

[Bill M]

Further to the above, I just got my 8 digit code by SMS (5.50 PM). I'll wait until the website is back online and then vote.

 

[Craton]

Further to the above, I just got my 8 digit code by SMS (5.50 PM). I'll wait until the website is back online and then vote.

Cheers for the heads up on iVote Bill.

The site does say that the voting side of things is still operational, just the registration portal had a little meltdown due to demand (not surprising really), link: http://www.ivote.nsw.gov.au/

 

[Bill M]

I just used the system. It was easy as pie. Took me literally 2 minutes. I look forward to when all voting is done that way.

Done and dusted here too, no queuing, no parking problems and quick and easy.

Cheers for the heads up on iVote Bill.

The site does say that the voting side of things is still operational, just the registration portal had a little meltdown due to demand (not surprising really), link: http://www.ivote.nsw.gov.au/

Thanks Craton, I picked up on that too, all done now. I will be interstate on the day so this has made life much easier.