20% above cash guaranteed: Would you invest?

[gooner]

I'm not interested in the average return.

I'm not interested in how a hedge fund trades 50 mil.

Your example of trading STO, WBC, ANZ, MQG, WPL, OSH etc shows how completely unimaginative you are at this game. I have no interest in such methods or risk.

Clueless

Unimaginative? Perhaps, but I like my risk reward trade off. And that is what the game is about investing where you are comfortable. I don't have to get up during the night to see how futures are tracking and no chance of a margin call on my house.

Boring even, but that's the way us accountants like it

 

[Mr J]

Unimaginative? Perhaps, but I like my risk reward trade off. And that is what the game is about investing where you are comfortable. I don't have to get up during the night to see how futures are tracking and no chance of a margin call on my house.

Boring even, but that's the way us accountants like it

Why do you assume TH has to get up during the night to check futures? Or that he's running close to margin? These are certainly not necessary for a shorterm trader. I certainly wouldn't call what he does "investing", unless you're talking about the investment of time and effort into the business of trading.

 

[basilio]

Quick little bunnies arn't we !!. Twenty % above bank interest GUARANTEED Well that should certainly bring in the punters.

There is no such thing as a guaranteed return. It might be claimed, it might be offered, it might even be written down. But in the end it depends on the honesty and capacity of the person you are dealing with. And in the broad history of separating punters from their readies there just arn't any wide boys who you could catch to return your investment if and when it went sour.

There is a simple logic to this. If the proposer had such a cast iron deal he could get the funds at a far cheaper rate from a myriad banking bodies. Trading in hedge funds is just sophisticated gambling . It is not by any stretch of the imagination a tangible investment.

On the other hand reams of investment advisors, superannuation companies, and so on have made a fortune themselves with pitches along the above lines.

 

[Trembling Hand]

Unimaginative? Perhaps, but I like my risk reward trade off. And that is what the game is about investing where you are comfortable. I don't have to get up during the night to see how futures are tracking and no chance of a margin call on my house.

Boring even, but that's the way us accountants like it

LOL. For an accountant you have NO idea of risk reward. NONE. I go to sleep 100% in cash. Your point that your good trading results the last months have only just got you back to zero shows you are clueless to risk and reward.

Boring!! low risk!! Oh really??

I personally have made 40% since the market lows earlier this year, although 30% of this was getting me back my losses. My investments were mainly blue chips (STO, WBC, ANZ, MQG, WPL, OSH etc) so reasonably low risk levels.

See your lack of understanding about R:R?? You are running risk at 1:1.25 reward. Recipe for disaster and you call that boring??

You have no idea about risk. What a joke.

 

[Trembling Hand]

Quick little bunnies arn't we !!. Twenty % above bank interest GUARANTEED Well that should certainly bring in the punters.

There is no such thing as a guaranteed return. It might be claimed, it might be offered, it might even be written down. But in the end it depends on the honesty and capacity of the person you are dealing with. And in the broad history of separating punters from their readies there just arn't any wide boys who you could catch to return your investment if and when it went sour.

There is a simple logic to this. If the proposer had such a cast iron deal he could get the funds at a far cheaper rate from a myriad banking bodies. Trading in hedge funds is just sophisticated gambling . It is not by any stretch of the imagination a tangible investment.

On the other hand reams of investment advisors, superannuation companies, and so on have made a fortune themselves with pitches along the above lines.

basilio I actually find your attitude somewhat insulting. How about you bet against me. winner take all?

 

[trainspotter]

I am in two minds as to what to make of the goings on here TH.

1) You have repeatedly instructed people that you only created this thread to see if the people are interested in being returned 20% even though theoretical hedge fund is obtaining 60% ROI. But you go on the front foot and tell people they have no idea of risk and are perpetuating a joke. AND they have a lack of understanding and they are clueless.

2) You say you feel insulted but you are the one doing the challenging.

Why don't you just lay your theory bare about going to sleep in 100% CASH with NIL risk with a ROI of 60% for all to see and we can mull it over?

 

[Trembling Hand]

I am in two minds as to what to make of the goings on here TH.

1) You have repeatedly instructed people that you only created this thread to see if the people are interested in being returned 20% even though theoretical hedge fund is obtaining 60% ROI. But you go on the front foot and tell people they have no idea of risk and are perpetuating a joke. AND they have a lack of understanding and they are clueless.

2) You say you feel insulted but you are the one doing the challenging.

Why don't you just lay your theory bare about going to sleep in 100% CASH with NIL risk with a ROI of 60% for all to see and we can mull it over?

Already have bud,

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12683

and here from page 2,

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10405&highlight=weekly+income

 

[awg]

Maybe TH wishes to speak for himself,

but for newer members, this thread was very popular and interesting at the time.

I think it gives some insight into what TH does

and partially addresses the questions you raise.

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12683

hey..he has spoken

 

[johnnyg]

T/H I've often seen you comment on reasons why capable traders would go and trade for trading company's. Alot bigger size to swing and if you can strike up a good deal with them a good return on the $$$ your trading with.

Isn't this what you'd be essentially be doing within 'your' hedge fund? If there is to much red tape to go threw surely trading for a firm would be much much easier assuming you could strike up a good deal with them

Or is it more a challenge for yourself to see if it can work? (along with bragging rights of course, I mean, who wouldn't love to have their own hedge fund)

 

[trainspotter]

Fantastic reading TH. Thanks for the info. You say that the trades displayed are a small percentage of your trading capital. May I be so bold as to inquire as to what $ value you are trading on any given day? I just noticed that to have 79 trades to make $240 is not really my cup of vodka. Understanding that you are trading with more capital but how do you decide as how much you place on each dealing? Or am I totally misunderstanding your principles here?

 

[Trembling Hand]

T/H I've often seen you comment on reasons why capable traders should go and trade for trading company's. Bigger size and if you can strike up a good deal with them a good return on the $$$ your trading with.

Isn't this what you'd be essentially be doing within 'your' hedge fund? If there is to much red tape to go threw surely trading for a firm would be much much easier assuming you could strike up a good deal with them

Xactly,

Johnny it always surprises me for an investing forum the complete lack of Entrepreneurial spirit and thought of some.

Or is it more a challenge for yourself to see if it can work? (along with bragging rights of course, I mean, who wouldn't love to have their own hedge fund)

Xactly. I've worked for a wage/the man for about 3 years of my entire life. Its a stat I would prefer not to add to

 

[awg]

Fantastic reading TH. Thanks for the info. You say that the trades displayed are a small percentage of your trading capital. May I be so bold as to inquire as to what $ value you are trading on any given day? I just noticed that to have 79 trades to make $240 is not really my cup of vodka. Understanding that you are trading with more capital but how do you decide as how much you place on each dealing? Or am I totally misunderstanding your principles here?

I never thought anyone could get through that thread so quick?

 

[trainspotter]

I never thought anyone could get through that thread so quick?

I am a real fast learner and an even faster reader.

 

[gooner]

LOL. For an accountant you have NO idea of risk reward. NONE. I go to sleep 100% in cash. Your point that your good trading results the last months have only just got you back to zero shows you are clueless to risk and reward.

Boring!! low risk!! Oh really??

See your lack of understanding about R:R?? You are running risk at 1:1.25 reward. Recipe for disaster and you call that boring??

You have no idea about risk. What a joke.

ROFLMAO

Thought I might of learnt something from all those years on the market risk committee of one of the major banks.

However, I shall defer to your obviously superior knowledge

 

[trainspotter]

My favourite response was this one from Peter2

Well done TH.
An excellent example of cutting your losers asap.
Your ave loss of 2.045 pts is incredible with a 2 point spread.

You have developed a rare and valuable skill.
I think you should remind readers that you worked damn hard for a long time and must have had a lot of losing days getting your mind around this game.

I concur with the above statement wholeheartedly. Balls of steel. All glory to you TH . Quite remarkable in your approach to the "game". I can understand why you would have got 100's of PM's from newbies requesting you take $800 off them and turn it into $14,333 in a days trading. I dips me lid to ya I do.

 

[Trembling Hand]

Fantastic reading TH. Thanks for the info. You say that the trades displayed are a small percentage of your trading capital. May I be so bold as to inquire as to what $ value you are trading on any given day? I just noticed that to have 79 trades to make $240 is not really my cup of vodka. Understanding that you are trading with more capital but how do you decide as how much you place on each dealing? Or am I totally misunderstanding your principles here?

I have a max amount risked per day. Amount risked each trade is relatively minuscule. Most traders risk about 1-2 % on each trade. I will not risk that much per day in total.

As per the dollar value ...... depending on the market & trade 1 to 10 contracts @ $8 to $25 per tick per contract. you go figure

Like I say risk very controlled. Add in positive expectancy and almost infinite repetition and Risk to Reward is outside anything an "investor" could dream of. But goorner is telling me I don't know what I'm talking about.

One of us dosn't I guess.

 

[Trembling Hand]

ROFLMAO

Thought I might of learnt something from all those years on the market risk committee of one of the major banks.

However, I shall defer to your obviously superior knowledge

Gooner and where did that get you? a 30% drawdown! a wasted rally to get you back to square and no job.

I rest my case.

 

[trainspotter]

Thanks for the insight TH. A brilliant mind indeed! I would take $25 tick per contract on a 400 ticks in a blink rise (as per website) any day. Like the philosophy you preach "For a forum on stocks there are hardly any entreprenuerial apparoaches" rings quite true suddenly for me. Nice work. Now that you have shared there is no need to rub it in.

 

[Mr J]

I just noticed that to have 79 trades to make $240 is not really my cup of vodka. Understanding that you are trading with more capital

$240 on a cfd. Instead, think about in terms of points for an index future. I seem to remember ~60-70 points, so multiply that by $25 per point per contract.

Thought I might of learnt something from all those years on the market risk committee of one of the major banks.

However, I shall defer to your obviously superior knowledge

And what did you learn? TH is seems far more aware of risk when it comes to trade, especially since you assuming that this offer could only be accomplished by risky trading. Every time I see the suggestion that a greater return requires greater risk, I laugh. Maybe you don't realise TH is a shorterm trader, or maybe you just don't realise that comparing the returns of a trader to an investor is liking comparing apples and orangles. It's just as silly to compare a typical hedge fund to a trading fund of a few mil.

 

[tech/a]

T/H

I dont understand.
$800-$14K.
Regularly I am lead to believe.
Friends Give $1000s to help them out when
down and out from your own trading account
cause your a great guy.

1-10 Contracts up to $250/tick
and youve been doing this for sometime.
Surely you have either many $100s of K cash
Diversified investments. Compounding capital base.
Can leverage your brains out as you have No or very little risk.

Why On earth do you need to trade massive size?
How many Millions is enough or indeed needed?

Cant see the point?