20% above cash guaranteed: Would you invest?

Trembling Hand · 2 August 2009

nunthewiser said:
why are you hypothetically offering this ? is it for your own enrichment ? is to help your brother man ? why?

I am hypothetically offering it here as discussion in out of the box thinking and entrepreneurial leveraging of a skill that one may or may not have.

I mean really this place is a bit of a joke when it comes to business thought. it never really gets past,

1. Day trading for a living off $10,000
2. Property always goes up
3. Chasing the next penny dreadful that will be FMG.

Where are the big thinkers? Tech's exceptional wealth thread drew not much in ideas.

Maybe I should start another forum,

Aussie Entrepreneurs Forum - nah that is a paradox

EDIT; or were you asking why I would personally be offering this in the real world, if I chose to?

nunthewiser · 2 August 2009

Trembling Hand said:
I am hypothetically offering it here as discussion in out of the box thinking and entrepreneurial leveraging of a skill that one may or may not have.

I mean really this place is a bit of a joke when it comes to business thought. it never really gets past,

1. Day trading for a living off $10,000
2. Property always goes up
3. Chasing the next penny dreadful that will be FMG.

Where are the big thinkers? Tech's exceptional wealth thread drew not much in ideas.

Maybe I should start another forum,

Aussie Entrepreneurs Forum - nah that is a paradox

intresting .......... thanks for the response

fwiw in tech,s "wealth" thread there was quite a few intresting and innovative comments BUT yes a distinct lack of "ideas' for the amount of members on this site .......but isnt that in all walks in life ? 10 ppl have an idea and them 10 ppl end up working for the one guy that gets up and does it

nunthewiser · 2 August 2009

Trembling Hand said:
I

EDIT; or were you asking why I would personally be offering this in the real world, if I chose to?

yes that was my original meaning to my question ......

if none of my business thats fair enough

Trembling Hand · 2 August 2009

nunthewiser said:
yes that was my original meaning to my question ......

if none of my business thats fair enough

Got a few miles to run first, then some beers to sink. Back lata with a skin full.

Julia · 2 August 2009

Trembling Hand said:
Where are the big thinkers? Tech's exceptional wealth thread drew not much in ideas.

Have you considered that not everyone feels disposed to share their ideas/wealth creating strategies on a forum?

trainspotter · 2 August 2009

Julia said:
Have you considered that not everyone feels disposed to share their ideas/wealth creating strategies on a forum?

I'm with you Julia as I do not want to be ridiculed for my strategems that others will think crude and baseless in their computations etc.

I have looked into TH's model and it really is the goods and has been verified by the mod squad. Would I know how to do it? Nope. Would I attempt to do it. Nope. But it works nonetheless.

Trembling Hand · 3 August 2009

Julia said:
Have you considered that not everyone feels disposed to share their ideas/wealth creating strategies on a forum?

Yep. That’s a very good explanation. You could also say that is the reason why any such discussion never gets off the ground. Not sharing & discussing thoughts, problems, solutions & possibilities whether they are yours or someone else’s (is that a word ) is always the best way to achieve something

kenny · 3 August 2009

Thanks TH and contributors for a thought provoking thread. For a newbie like myself; trying to read this thread in brief snatches during the day has been an eye glazing exercise.

In your hypothetical TH, it seems that your risk hopefully pays off the longer the clients stay with you (assuming success in the first year). I think it is a great business idea assuming as others have pointed out; the involvement in running the set up does not detract from delivering the performance necessary to make it fly.

Whether people out there have the skill or not to get decent returns, I know from experience, there are a lot who neither have the time and/or the inclination to educate themselves to a level where they can do so. That's a big reason why managed investments thrive. A discretionary trading account system with an innovative twist would certainly appeal to some, I think.

Am I right in understanding the guarantee applies to the initial investment? Would the guarantee be able to apply to the escalating total during the year much like the High Watermark set ups of various products out there? Perhaps the guaranteed level might be reset at intervals during the year? Or am I being silly and may as well ask for a shiny set of steak knives while I'm at it?

Cheers,

Kenny

kincella · 3 August 2009

Ok I will wade into this again....I am a professional (leave blank).......thats my day job, it earns good money....but I also make some easy money in property, both yearly revenue roughly $100,000....and then every couple of years or so I make some exceptional profits, in capital gains on the properties.....
all this and have been in semi retirement for past few years...which has been boring.....
I dont earn millions pa, but I do have a couple of million built up in assets....
its not exceptional, or stunning, but I could have done better, looking back in hindsight...its just slow and steady and easy money
I have made some nice money in the stockmarket...but believe its more of a gamble these days

I think a lot of us do contribute to the forum with ideas on how to make money...and then get a lot of flack back anyway....
freedom on the net is due to being anonymous, but it also requires caution...
so are you a full time trader TH ? or do you have other forms of income

Chorlton · 3 August 2009

Trembling Hand said:
Just purely as hypothetical (nick off ASIC I'm not raising funds without a lic or prospectus)

If a hedge fund offered you 20% return above Australian cash rate annually would you invest in that fund? Even if they were making 60% returns or greater.

Personally, if I were interested then I would like to meet the person behind the hedge Fund before deciding......

Would you feel cheated if you were only getting 30% of the profits? If your return was 20% but no more or no less.

Similar procedure when investing in any Bank Account, so as long as the return was adequate I wouldn't see any problem with the fund making more. If the initial investment is "guaranteed", then (assuming that the money can be recovered should the worst happen) I would be interested in hearing further details....

Trembling Hand · 3 August 2009

kincella said:
I have made some nice money in the stockmarket...but believe its more of a gamble these days

Yes for 99% of players it will always remain so, gambling. Where the odds are not in their favour. There are others that have shown in practise that they have a few skills that puts the odds in their favour.

kincella said:
freedom on the net is due to being anonymous, but it also requires caution...
so are you a full time trader TH ? or do you have other forms of income

My story is pretty well know for those that stray out side the property threads : But I will tell it again.

I come from a background of small biz. Pretty much always worked for myself. From the time I realised I wasn't going to make it as a pro athlete eek I have worked on my own business. Starting at 23 I opened and sold to 'up-size' into other ventures. Started in Bendigo in a small 2 person cafe built it up to a largish 40 employee manufacturing business in Melbourne with disruption offices in Sydney & Qld and export to Asia, NZ. So went from 23 with literally nothing including skill to 29 owning/running a biz that had a turnover well above $50,000 per week. It was a monster.

Then it imploded. Turned out I wasn't the hot shot I thought I was . Mostly it was the same old story, going so fast you forget to dot the "i's" and cross the "t's". Add that to a young punk who likes to push and it was a rags to riches back to rags story.

The year 2000 I was $500,000 in the hole after all asset sold, homeless, burnt out, broken, friendless and done!! Spent about 6 months homeless of sorts. But turned out I wasn't the best bum. The other bums failed to accept me when I would start reading the business section of old papers instead of using them for warmth, lol!!

Long story short got over myself, dusted off the rubbish and got back into it. 2002 had another biz up and running but my heart wasn't in to it so I sold out 2004 and went full time trader after fluffing around in the market since 2001. That has been my sole source of income since then, daytrading index futures.

There is probably 8-10 people here who have had access to my trading in one way or the other that would probably total 4000 trades or more. If thats worth anything.

Mr J · 3 August 2009

Long story short got over myself, dusted off the rubbish and got back into it. 2002 had another biz up and running but my heart wasn't in to it so I sold out 2004 and went full time trader after fluffing around in the market since 2001. That has been my sole source of income since then, daytrading index futures.

That sounds like a story in itself. Wouldn't mind hearing about how you got back on your feet, seems like it would be very hard to do. Did you get a job to get some capital, equipment etc, or did someone help you out?

Trembling Hand · 3 August 2009

Mr J said:
That sounds like a story in itself. Wouldn't mind hearing about how you got back on your feet, seems like it would be very hard to do. Did you get a job to get some capital, equipment etc, or did someone help you out?

Ha! you have no idea, but both + some

But there is always people with money looking for someone with a bright idea and willing to work. Which by the way if I offered you ..............

Mr J · 3 August 2009

Well I'm not someone with money .

Trembling Hand · 3 August 2009

kenny said:
Whether people out there have the skill or not to get decent returns, I know from experience, there are a lot who neither have the time and/or the inclination to educate themselves to a level where they can do so. That's a big reason why managed investments thrive. A discretionary trading account system with an innovative twist would certainly appeal to some, I think.

Yes I would think so too that such a "innovative twist" would be attractive. I don't think the guarantee setup to assure the investor is that hard a thing to sort out.

kenny said:
Am I right in understanding the guarantee applies to the initial investment? Would the guarantee be able to apply to the escalating total during the year much like the High Watermark set ups of various products out there? Perhaps the guaranteed level might be reset at intervals during the year? Or am I being silly and may as well ask for a shiny set of steak knives while I'm at it?

No idea as this is all theoretical discussion but you would think that a quarterly high water mark guarantee would make it sweet for any investor long term.

Largesse · 3 August 2009

Trembling Hand said:
I am hypothetically offering it here as discussion in out of the box thinking and entrepreneurial leveraging of a skill that one may or may not have.

I mean really this place is a bit of a joke when it comes to business thought. it never really gets past,

1. Day trading for a living off $10,000
2. Property always goes up
3. Chasing the next penny dreadful that will be FMG.

Where are the big thinkers? Tech's exceptional wealth thread drew not much in ideas.

Maybe I should start another forum,

Aussie Entrepreneurs Forum - nah that is a paradox

EDIT; or were you asking why I would personally be offering this in the real world, if I chose to?

While you raise a valid point TH, one point I will throw in,

Why the F would an entrepreneur with an actual good idea come onto a forum and tell everyone about it for free?

edit: sorry, julia beat me to the punch.... like yesterday.

Trembling Hand · 3 August 2009

Largesse said:
While you raise a valid point TH, one point I will throw in,

Why the F would an entrepreneur with an actual good idea come onto a forum and tell everyone about it for free?

Because when you share you also learn.

I've had a few contacts from people that I would not be able to find, people that have lots of experience setting up legals/funds etc for just such ventures. Some very practical and experienced help. So far I'm better off for the effort.

Rarely does seeking info hurt, quite the opposite from my experience.

Mr J · 3 August 2009

Depends how you explain the idea. For example, how many here could take up TH's hypothetical proposal? Not many, and those that could wouldn't hurt TH's business.

Cartman · 3 August 2009

Largesse said:
While you raise a valid point TH, one point I will throw in,

Why the F would an entrepreneur with an actual good idea come onto a forum and tell everyone about it for free?

edit: sorry, julia beat me to the punch.... like yesterday.

if u can generate your client base (for next to no cost) from the same punters you are discussing your ideas with it would make either --

a) good
b) great or
c) U did what !!!

business sense

Largesse · 3 August 2009

I guess it just comes back to the wealth vs exceptional wealth debate.

coming out and sharing your ideas may make you wealthy (a relative term vs the average punter) but to achieve exceptional wealth, you will need an exceptional idea and most likely need to develop that idea entirely yourself, reasons for this:
a) because sharing that idea may harm its value, or b) no one else/very few others will have the expertise to offer you any helpful advice, c) only you will have the drive to push your idea to greater success.

anyway, that's just my general opinion on the matter.

but specifically to your idea TH, I think your idea is conducive to discussion, and you will probably benefit greatly from it.

I hope it goes well for you should you take the leap from hypothetical to actual.

20% above cash guaranteed: Would you invest?

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