11 kids to 11 different fathers

[Whiskers]

How does that solve anything...

I believe catholicism encourages more children and is against abortion as a matter of policy.

But not a good option to bring religion into an already political mess.

I don't know if they still do, but years ago I worked with catholics who donated 10% of their pay to the church.

Bugger that. We need the cash to stay in the hands of Australian families.

 

[Kathmandu]

If we are that worried about a lack of kids, why don't we just convert everyone to catholicism? Problem solved.

Not for me thank's, I'd rather be a....................Protestant


http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Monty_...e_Miracle_of_Birth.2C_Part_2:_The_Third_World



Mr Blackitt: That's what being a Protestant's all about! That's why it's the church for me! That's why it's the church for anyone who respects the individual, and the individual's right to decide for him- or herself. When Martin Luther nailed his protest up to the church door in 1517, he may not have realised the full significance of what he was doing, but… 400 years later, thanks to him, my dear, I can wear whatever I want on my John Thomas.
[He sniffs.]

Mr Blackitt: And, Protestantism doesn't stop at the simple condom! Oh, no! I can wear French Ticklers if I want.

Mrs Blackitt: You what?

Mr Blackitt: French Ticklers! Black Mambos! Crocodile Ribs! Sheaths that are designed not only to protect, but also to enhance the stimulation of sexual congress.

Mrs Blackitt: Have you got one?

Mr Blackitt: Have I got one? Uh, well, no, but I can go down the road any time I want, and walk into Harry's and hold my head up high and say in a loud, steady voice, "Harry, I want you to sell me a condom. In fact, today, I think I'll have a French Tickler, for I am a Protestant."

 

[theasxgorilla]

Paid Maternity leave like other properly managed Countries seems to me the best route.

And paternity leave! Don't forget us dads...it's only fair when everyone is demanding equality.

 

[chops_a_must]

Not for me thank's, I'd rather be a....................Protestant

Lol!

Good to see someone can take a joke.

 

[numbercruncher]

And paternity leave! Don't forget us dads...it's only fair when everyone is demanding equality.

Top of the Class for that Idea

 

[Whiskers]

Some pretty harsh opinions floating about in this thread

I suppose that's because apart from the welfare bill to support these mothers, the fewer tax payers will then have to pay the financial cost of all the social problems from a greater proportion of disfunctional people.

Paid Maternity leave like other properly managed Countries seems to me the best route.

This is pretty much another form of welfare, just paid by the employer. There is no guarantee that the mother will go back to work longer term. It does nothing to discourage the abovementioned mothers from having multiple children and draining the welfare system after they quit employment.

 

[numbercruncher]

Hello Whiskers,


What action do you think Australia pty ltd should take to solve this huge issue ?

 

[Whiskers]

Hello Whiskers,


What action do you think Australia pty ltd should take to solve this huge issue ?

Hi Numbercruncher

I guess I have a bit of a personal gripe on this issue. A few years ago I was referred some people by the then CES for a farm labouring job. I gave the job to one fellow, but a couple of days later he rings me up to say he can't take the job. He had a wife and swag of kids and would be loosing money if he went to work. Although things are a bit different now, people still rort the welfare system too much.

If I can make an analogy more fitting to the 'Humanans are Animals' thread, humans are just a sophisticated animal. Many, especially native animals, will only breed when the enviornmental and seasonal conditions are right, e.g. they often won't breed in drought.

I guess the solution is largely in your name sake. Since we are a sophisticated animal, crunch the numbers to create a financial drought to discourage these people from multipling.:

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

I haven't seen the item being discussed but get the general idea.

As far as needing to keep the population going, is it really likely that these genes are going to contribute much to our society? More likely to be a further drain on the welfare bill.

And just wait until the $10,000 baby bonus is introduced for the third child!!!

Dear Julia,

I haven't seen the item being discussed either, but this lady is quite astute with her genes, maximising their potential by sharing them with 11 others.

Studies have shown that up to 25 to 30% of 'fathers" at antenatal clinics, are in fact unrelated to the foetus.

Her offspring may surprise you as she has spread her bets, rather like spreading ones portfolio in different sectors.

Garpal

 

[Julia]

Dear Julia,

I haven't seen the item being discussed either, but this lady is quite astute with her genes, maximising their potential by sharing them with 11 others.

Studies have shown that up to 25 to 30% of 'fathers" at antenatal clinics, are in fact unrelated to the foetus.

Her offspring may surprise you as she has spread her bets, rather like spreading ones portfolio in different sectors.

Garpal

Garpal, I can't argue with this, can I! I'll resist making any comment on the likely quality of her, umm, suitors, given the apparently somewhat indiscriminate sharing of her affections.

 

[Julia]

Fertility rates seems to be dropping.

In the years ahead we may find that it will become more difficult for people to have children.

This is a realistic observation. I was listening to an ABC programme recently about IVF and the increasing age at which women are choosing to become (or try to become) pregnant. The researchers suggested, that because they have often left it too late, they are more and more using IVF and as a result the progeny produced will reproduce their own lack of fertility and so perpetuate the problem.

Rafa's suggestion that we depend more on immigration (of skilled people who can contribute to our economy and to our general ethos as a nation) makes more sense to me than encouraging indiscriminate breeding.

Truly, I have asked so many of these young women what they plan to do with the coming baby bonus, and the most common response: "new clothes for everyone, new TV, new phones for the kids, take the whole family to Surfers Paradise for a couple of weeks, etc." If they are asked if they have considered perhaps paying off the credit card or saving some of it for the coming baby's needs, there is just a blank look.
One woman had six children. The eldest was about to turn 16, at which stage Mum would no longer be receiving the family tax payment for the girl.
The girl had no interest in staying at school or getting a job. She simply assumed she would roll up to Centrelink and get the dole. Her mother was irritated at the loss of income. Her solution: get pregnant again, return the family income to the status quo, and get the baby bonus as well.

So forgive me for my cynicism about the baby bonus!

 

[nioka]

The researchers suggested, that because they have often left it too late, they are more and more using IVF and as a result the progeny produced will reproduce their own lack of fertility and so perpetuate the problem

As one who spent a fair amount of time involved in animal genetics I do not find this statement credible. Chosing to have children late is not a heritable trait. Fertility is at it highest point shortly after maturity and declines exponentially. The problem, if it is a problem, is the chosen lifestyles. What could be a worry is selection in favour of low IQ if the lower IQ is a highly heritable trait and the lower IQ the bigger the family is the general rule. Selection is also speeded up with quicker generation turnover, one of the factors responsible for chicken production out pacing beef production for efficiency. Is IQ highly heritable ?. I doubt it.
Motherhood at 16 will turn over a generation twice as fast as it would at 32.
I am with Rudd on this one, the answer is education and not necessarily a university one. More education in home economics, trades and social something or other.would solve a lot of problems.

 

[Whiskers]

Truly, I have asked so many of these young women what they plan to do with the coming baby bonus, and the most common response: "new clothes for everyone, new TV, new phones for the kids, take the whole family to Surfers Paradise for a couple of weeks, etc." If they are asked if they have considered perhaps paying off the credit card or saving some of it for the coming baby's needs, there is just a blank look.

So forgive me for my cynicism about the baby bonus!

I can relate to that exactly Julia. One of my brothers, partners, daughters had a perfectly good fridge and dining suite, but blew her baby bonus on a new fridge (because she wanted an icemaker in it) and new dining suite because she felt like it. The husband is more often on the dole than not, and she is always going around to her mothers place to scrounge some food, because she keeps running out.

This is a realistic observation. I was listening to an ABC programme recently about IVF and the increasing age at which women are choosing to become (or try to become) pregnant. The researchers suggested, that because they have often left it too late, they are more and more using IVF and as a result the progeny produced will reproduce their own lack of fertility and so perpetuate the problem.

I've heard similar. It sounds like you might have some real experience in these things. Do you have any ideas what would motivate career women to have children earlier? Would a much more substantial tax break, along the lines mentioned in an earlier post, that would continue until 16 yo, as opposed to a one off bonus do the job? Is their desire to work longer before having children, about financial security or do they just want more of a life before having a family?

 

[numbercruncher]

Hi Numbercruncher

I guess I have a bit of a personal gripe on this issue. A few years ago I was referred some people by the then CES for a farm labouring job. I gave the job to one fellow, but a couple of days later he rings me up to say he can't take the job. He had a wife and swag of kids and would be loosing money if he went to work. Although things are a bit different now, people still rort the welfare system too much.

If I can make an analogy more fitting to the 'Humanans are Animals' thread, humans are just a sophisticated animal. Many, especially native animals, will only breed when the enviornmental and seasonal conditions are right, e.g. they often won't breed in drought.

I guess the solution is largely in your name sake. Since we are a sophisticated animal, crunch the numbers to create a financial drought to discourage these people from multipling.:

I see what your saying Whiskers and I guess any corporation has a certain amount of fraud and theft but they wouldnt shut shop to stamp it out.

I just think the benefits of doing something far outweigh the negatives of doing nothing on such a serious issue. I mean it sure seems to me that its Australias future at stake.

I guess one group of people at current ageing/retirement rates are going to benefit massively and become the new masters of the universe, that would be Gen Xers through the simple rule of succession and supply and demand they will be able to dictate there terms and prices upon society.

 

[moXJO]

If you really want to incent the 'right' people to have kids you need to incent them with what they value most, time!

Good luck, most of these people choose a social life over kids.


A higher standard of education is needed earlier on for kids. Then some kind of welfare penalty if the kids don't turn up to school. No point trying to convince people that won’t have kids to have them. Better to work with the current problems with the people that are having children.

In the end its your houses that are robbed, or cars stolen, when these kids start falling through the cracks.

 

[Julia]

Do you have any ideas what would motivate career women to have children earlier? Would a much more substantial tax break, along the lines mentioned in an earlier post, that would continue until 16 yo, as opposed to a one off bonus do the job? Is their desire to work longer before having children, about financial security or do they just want more of a life before having a family?

The only thing I've heard suggested which seems to appeal to women who don't want to sacrifice their careers before having a baby is extended maternity leave.

The other way of coping with some of the problem, I suppose, is an increasing acceptance of older workers staying longer. St. George Bank is, I think, now offering their staff who are grandparents extended leave to care for the grandchildren. The current government has made working longer more attractive with the changes to Super, but I suspect there's still a culture in many workplaces of not wanting people over 50.

If Super is made more attractive presumably more people are going to put more into it = more self funded retirees = less drain on the old age pension.
However, given that we are living longer, I guess there is going to be a greater demand for healthcare.