Solid.
$100 net profit a day is my goal
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Solid.
Converted,
I don't want to discourage you.
This is obviously something you want to do so I say go for it. Carpe Diem.
Having said that your aproach really goes about it in the wrong way.
Assume you start with $1000. And assume you need to make $300 a day before costs to get to your $100 a day profit.
Even if you trade twice every day and are right one in two trades with losses caped at 10% (includes costs) you need to make 40% profit on each of your wining trades in order to meet your goals.
Being a little more realistic brokerage is $20 each way and excluding tax/software costs etc that means you only need to make $240 per winning trade vs losing trades (at 50/50 W/L).
So realistically you need to trade twice a day, have a maximin 10% stop on your losing trades, make at least 24% on your winning trade, never have more than one losing trade in a row, and be able to exit the first trade and enter the second in the one day.
What will you do if 7 of the 8 hours the market are open have passed and your trade has gone nowhere?
$1000 won't cut it. Nor will making 24% on every second trade day in day out. Re read this thread, you need to base your stats over the longer term.
You need to have enough capital so that you can have up to say 5 trades open at one time.
Why trade only 1k at a time? You say emotions are under wrap, so trade 100k per trade or 500k per trade?
The less you trade with the less emotional you get when thngs go wrong. 2K is a resonable starting point (in my experience) as it is both low enough to help remain calm and high enough to not erode all your profits from brokerage (comsec is the cheapest/best value at $19.95 each way) (5k opening balance though).
using 2k trades also halves your winning % needed to make $100 a day.
I tried to find the poll on previos returns for members but have had no joy. From memory though not that many exceed 50% PA. That said they would be the more experienced members + we are in the midst of massive bull run.
Even if you got 50% PA you would need $50+k to meet your goals.
Do some sums for yourself, change your aproach to simply being consistentley profitable and read read read.
Becoming a trader is a really emotioanal process (amoung other things). It took me two years just to become profitable, and how many times did I just want to through it all away? Even now with reasonable profits this year I still find myself going, If only I put everything I have into WMT and left it there. We each trade differently but we each fight the same evils.
Hope this helps a bit, and perservire, where there is a will there is a way, just make sure your goals are realistic otherwise you have cut of your head before starting the race.
I don't want to discourage you.
This is obviously something you want to do so I say go for it. Carpe Diem.
Having said that your aproach really goes about it in the wrong way.
Assume you start with $1000. And assume you need to make $300 a day before costs to get to your $100 a day profit.
Even if you trade twice every day and are right one in two trades with losses caped at 10% (includes costs) you need to make 40% profit on each of your wining trades in order to meet your goals.
Being a little more realistic brokerage is $20 each way and excluding tax/software costs etc that means you only need to make $240 per winning trade vs losing trades (at 50/50 W/L).
So realistically you need to trade twice a day, have a maximin 10% stop on your losing trades, make at least 24% on your winning trade, never have more than one losing trade in a row, and be able to exit the first trade and enter the second in the one day.
What will you do if 7 of the 8 hours the market are open have passed and your trade has gone nowhere?
$1000 won't cut it. Nor will making 24% on every second trade day in day out. Re read this thread, you need to base your stats over the longer term.
You need to have enough capital so that you can have up to say 5 trades open at one time.
Why trade only 1k at a time? You say emotions are under wrap, so trade 100k per trade or 500k per trade?
The less you trade with the less emotional you get when thngs go wrong. 2K is a resonable starting point (in my experience) as it is both low enough to help remain calm and high enough to not erode all your profits from brokerage (comsec is the cheapest/best value at $19.95 each way) (5k opening balance though).
using 2k trades also halves your winning % needed to make $100 a day.
I tried to find the poll on previos returns for members but have had no joy. From memory though not that many exceed 50% PA. That said they would be the more experienced members + we are in the midst of massive bull run.
Even if you got 50% PA you would need $50+k to meet your goals.
Do some sums for yourself, change your aproach to simply being consistentley profitable and read read read.
Becoming a trader is a really emotioanal process (amoung other things). It took me two years just to become profitable, and how many times did I just want to through it all away? Even now with reasonable profits this year I still find myself going, If only I put everything I have into WMT and left it there. We each trade differently but we each fight the same evils.
Hope this helps a bit, and perservire, where there is a will there is a way, just make sure your goals are realistic otherwise you have cut of your head before starting the race.
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IMO you're looking at the wrong market.
The forex market is so much easier to trade and to learn.
There's only a small number of major currencies,the leveredge is higher and the forex trading community is so much more helpful in sharing systems.
In the sharemarket the money comes in surges and rushes whereas in forex it's easier due to the range of a currency, to pocket a fairly consistant profit.
Starting with $1000 you're massively undercapitalised in the sharemarket whereas many start with this amount in forex.
The forex market is so much easier to trade and to learn.
There's only a small number of major currencies,the leveredge is higher and the forex trading community is so much more helpful in sharing systems.
In the sharemarket the money comes in surges and rushes whereas in forex it's easier due to the range of a currency, to pocket a fairly consistant profit.
Starting with $1000 you're massively undercapitalised in the sharemarket whereas many start with this amount in forex.
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Converted,
Few points to make -
1.) You are WAY undercaptialised at the moment. $1000 is no WHERE NEAR enough to trade at all, regardless of the market. You "might" be able to cut it in FOREX by trading 0.1 lot consistently with no commission, but spread cost only. However, it will be a long time before you can take the advantage of money management through geometric growth. That is, in order to earn more, you need to trade more than 0.1, but your risk per trade will increase potentially due to your extreme low starting capital.
2.) You said you believed you are immune to a large market correction if you are day trading. That is very wrong. Market drop much faster than you would expected it. Your broker will most likely be unable to fill your "stop loss" order if such rapid correction occur in a matter of few minutes or even seconds. Never assume such things at all.
3.) Ohhh..there are lot more points I want to make here..but
I'm not trying to discourage you as well, but you are no where NEAR the level to make money consistently @ $100 / day. You say you want to try with $1000 and is happy to get $10 per day? In reality, that wouldn't be possible if you are trading the stock market as the transaction cost would have totally killed your profit.
I suggest you look at the cheaper broker first, do some real maths and find out how much you need to earn per "trade" with your current capital to cover the brokage cost. You will certainly find it "impossible".
My advice for you is to spend that $1000 on real education by reading popular trading books, authored by Dr Van Thorp as one example, and if you want to try now, open up a demo account and try for yourself first.
It's good that you try to get away from your boring, slave job, and it's also encourging to see that you are willing to learn, but you will need far more committment than you currently am willing to give to make money consistently via day trading.
So to summarise, spend that $1000 on education (do tons of research around forums/internet, don't take on hyped marketing ones), start a demo account immediately and get a feel of the "reality" first before committing any real, hard earned money. You got 4 kids and a family to take care of, remember that.
Few points to make -
1.) You are WAY undercaptialised at the moment. $1000 is no WHERE NEAR enough to trade at all, regardless of the market. You "might" be able to cut it in FOREX by trading 0.1 lot consistently with no commission, but spread cost only. However, it will be a long time before you can take the advantage of money management through geometric growth. That is, in order to earn more, you need to trade more than 0.1, but your risk per trade will increase potentially due to your extreme low starting capital.
2.) You said you believed you are immune to a large market correction if you are day trading. That is very wrong. Market drop much faster than you would expected it. Your broker will most likely be unable to fill your "stop loss" order if such rapid correction occur in a matter of few minutes or even seconds. Never assume such things at all.
3.) Ohhh..there are lot more points I want to make here..but
I'm not trying to discourage you as well, but you are no where NEAR the level to make money consistently @ $100 / day. You say you want to try with $1000 and is happy to get $10 per day? In reality, that wouldn't be possible if you are trading the stock market as the transaction cost would have totally killed your profit.
I suggest you look at the cheaper broker first, do some real maths and find out how much you need to earn per "trade" with your current capital to cover the brokage cost. You will certainly find it "impossible".
My advice for you is to spend that $1000 on real education by reading popular trading books, authored by Dr Van Thorp as one example, and if you want to try now, open up a demo account and try for yourself first.
It's good that you try to get away from your boring, slave job, and it's also encourging to see that you are willing to learn, but you will need far more committment than you currently am willing to give to make money consistently via day trading.
So to summarise, spend that $1000 on education (do tons of research around forums/internet, don't take on hyped marketing ones), start a demo account immediately and get a feel of the "reality" first before committing any real, hard earned money. You got 4 kids and a family to take care of, remember that.
professor_frink
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temjin said:
Sorry temjin, but why are daytraders not immune from a large correction? Wouldn't it be just another day?
I don't get it
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That depends on how "long" does this "correction" occur. As I said, prices drop much quicker than it rise. Stop Losses are never guaranteed during extreme price movements and this is especially true for the stock market where its liquidity isn't as good as the currencies market.
Of course, I do believe day traders will able to resist such large corrections better than long term investors because their in position risks are almost always lower. (P.s: with exceptions depending on how much initial risks one takes on their positions) But to believe your day trading strategies to be "completely immune" from price shocks (i.e. large correction) is simply ignorant for not preparing for the worst.
Of course, I do believe day traders will able to resist such large corrections better than long term investors because their in position risks are almost always lower. (P.s: with exceptions depending on how much initial risks one takes on their positions) But to believe your day trading strategies to be "completely immune" from price shocks (i.e. large correction) is simply ignorant for not preparing for the worst.
Converted.
I recommend you to learn through reading books. As Temjin mentioned, Van Tharp is good, Stan Weinstein also good.
And in this time, you could try to save a bit more. Probably 5k is enough to get started, personally i started with 7k.
And daytrading is VERY hard, the reason i say this is because it was not long ago when i had the same approach, never hold overnight, etc, but whats hard about it, is that MOST moves take more than 1 day to play out.
Even buying at the close and selling the next open i would say is a better strategy than buying and selling intraday.
Try firstly exploring longer term strategies, its much easier that way i have found. IMO.
I recommend you to learn through reading books. As Temjin mentioned, Van Tharp is good, Stan Weinstein also good.
And in this time, you could try to save a bit more. Probably 5k is enough to get started, personally i started with 7k.
And daytrading is VERY hard, the reason i say this is because it was not long ago when i had the same approach, never hold overnight, etc, but whats hard about it, is that MOST moves take more than 1 day to play out.
Even buying at the close and selling the next open i would say is a better strategy than buying and selling intraday.
Try firstly exploring longer term strategies, its much easier that way i have found. IMO.
professor_frink
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Personally, I don't think it really matters how long a correction lasts for. The volatility we had recently in markets worldwide was a daytrading dream.
Having said that, I think alot depends on the market you trade. The long only, small cap daytrader is obviously going to have alot more problems making money during a correction or bear market, compared with an index or forex trader.
Converted, I agree with Nizar completely- start trading longer term first when you have built up a little more capital. Once you've figured out strategies that you are comfortable with, then you can start looking at opportunities in a shorter timeframe.
converted
Dont die wondering
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Yep realise its gonna be hard yakka but even harder yakka is having a gun to your head from your boss. This way I can build my education with small upfronts and its something Im prepared to lose at this stage too.
100k or 500k I would LOVE to have that lying around but to tell you the truth if I had that I wouldnt be on this forum, I wil have paid for my house, paid for a factory unit and would be builing budget race cars for Joe Blow (500k would easilt do that).
I would also be looking at doing longer term trading as well but that would be something I would educate myself with longer term
So after the dust has all settled on this thread, all I need is someone on this forum who does it or is close who can divulge their info publically...thats all. And some people seem to be actually doing that as well....and for that person to say I want others to join me in not being nailed to a job all my life. The thing is I dont want to be rich, I want to be wealthy and being wealthy to me is pursuing my hobbies and helping counsel people in their marriages when and where I can and being able to take the kids out on the boat and to the snow. Unfortunatley these things dont make money. I just need the flexibility which I have in my job) and not to have a gun at my head...
100k or 500k I would LOVE to have that lying around but to tell you the truth if I had that I wouldnt be on this forum, I wil have paid for my house, paid for a factory unit and would be builing budget race cars for Joe Blow (500k would easilt do that).
I would also be looking at doing longer term trading as well but that would be something I would educate myself with longer term
So after the dust has all settled on this thread, all I need is someone on this forum who does it or is close who can divulge their info publically...thats all. And some people seem to be actually doing that as well....and for that person to say I want others to join me in not being nailed to a job all my life. The thing is I dont want to be rich, I want to be wealthy and being wealthy to me is pursuing my hobbies and helping counsel people in their marriages when and where I can and being able to take the kids out on the boat and to the snow. Unfortunatley these things dont make money. I just need the flexibility which I have in my job) and not to have a gun at my head...
tech/a
No Ordinary Duck
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Why do you feel you have a Gun to your head? Are you not seen as a valued employee worth keeping?
If your prepared to lose it then no doubt you will.
The issue is getting a capital account or equity in the first place---is it not?
Your looking to become a Brain Surgeon and then learning First Aid.----Thats your approach.
Great---can someone do all the work for me!!
Well hows $200 a day proven for the last 4 yrs 8 mths fully disclosed?
http://lightning.he.net/cgi-bin/suid/~reefcap/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum;f=74
It will take some effort on your part though---I doubt your prepared for that.
Well you wont be rich.
You will be wealthy---as wealthy as YOU believe you should be.
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All the pieces you need are out there.
Just a matter of finding them all and putting the whole picture together.
Always more rewarding to find them yourself.
Good fortune with your treasure hunt.
Out Too Soon
My real name is King Julian ;)
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Hi Techh/a, I hope Joe gets a commision for the free plugs Nicks site gets here. Yet another "pay me & I'll show you how I did it, I don't really need the money cause I'm so successful but pay me anyway" site. : 
:
professor_frink
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Hi Techh/a, I hope Joe gets a commision for the free plugs Nicks site gets here. Yet another "pay me & I'll show you how I did it, I don't really need the money cause I'm so successful but pay me anyway" site.
What an absolute rubbish post.
tech/a
No Ordinary Duck
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Hi Techh/a, I hope Joe gets a commision for the free plugs Nicks site gets here. Yet another "pay me & I'll show you how I did it, I don't really need the money cause I'm so successful but pay me anyway" site.
Love it!!
There it is all free to anyone who sees value in Techtrader,no charge,and STILL its not good enough.
Got nothing to do with Radge.
Nicks just seen it as worthy of a place to camp so others can access it.
I nor he makes a zack out of the method (Other than my trading of it).
It would be best if you were to learn on what you were trading, then to paper trade and see how you go. Once you have mastered it on paper go live then.
If your goal is $100 per day, or an average of that work towards it, but learn what you can before putting your money in. You will be giving it away otherwise!
If your goal is $100 per day, or an average of that work towards it, but learn what you can before putting your money in. You will be giving it away otherwise!
Out Too Soon
My real name is King Julian ;)
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Sorry if I jumped to the wrong conclusion, but it looks like a zillion other sites on the web that make promises of varying believabilty, get your details then bombard you with spam hoping in a moment of weakness you'll send them your cash. Really, I'm very cynical about such crud- "Log in to Capital Coaching- register now!" Yeah right!!!!!!
Julia
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Sorry if I jumped to the wrong conclusion, but it looks like a zillion other sites on the web that make promises of varying believabilty, get your details then bombard you with spam hoping in a moment of weakness you'll send them your cash. Really, I'm very cynical about such crud- "Log in to Capital Coaching- register now!" Yeah right!!!!!!
How would it be if - instead of jumping to cynical conclusions - you actually had a look at the information and then made an informed conclusion?
Sorry if I jumped to the wrong conclusion, but it looks like a zillion other sites on the web that make promises of varying believabilty, get your details then bombard you with spam hoping in a moment of weakness you'll send them your cash. Really, I'm very cynical about such crud- "Log in to Capital Coaching- register now!" Yeah right!!!!!!
OTS, I find the reefcap forums very informative and it hasn't cost me a cent. I am also currently reading Nick Radges book (brought from the ASF bookshop
) and imo it is well worth the read, he obviously has a wealth of knowledge about Aussie shares. As far as I'm concerned the more info I can get from any source is an advantage to me, if I don't agree with it I don't use it. But it's all about improving my trading/investing and making a profit, the more knowledge I have the better. There are a lot of people out there that are a lot smarter than me and I'd be silly not to take advantage of their knowledge and skills.
Out Too Soon
My real name is King Julian ;)
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OK! I'll put my cynicism aside (temp) & look further, the shortcut that was posted leads to a Login or register page, Reefcap.com CAPITAL COACHING & I immediately thought, "havent I been here before", deja vu! Beleive me I've spent/ wasted a lot of time looking at similar sites, hence my skepticism & large list of blocked spam mail sites.
converted
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Thanks all for your input. Whether youre day trading or trading long term it all looks too complex, and youre right maybe i really dont want to do this....
I have got way too much on in my life to have the time to learn a whole new skilset anyway and i guess if it was simple everyone would do it.
I have got way too much on in my life to have the time to learn a whole new skilset anyway and i guess if it was simple everyone would do it.
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