Wind Farms

[IFocus]

, diesel anywhere that wasn't on the main grid.
s

Worked in remote diesel power stations in the north west of WA in the 80's and was staggered then on the amount of diesel burn then

 

[trainspotter]

Worked in remote diesel power stations in the north west of WA in the 80's and was staggered then on the amount of diesel burn then

Old technology Me old parrot. Let's take all the money thrown at wind wanking and invest it in to efficient clean gas turbines in WA to generate the power to run the Eastern sea board !! Hot air out of Canberra could drive 1000 wind farms me Hearty !

 

[Smurf1976]

Worked in remote diesel power stations in the north west of WA in the 80's and was staggered then on the amount of diesel burn then

The figures associated with with this stuff are way beyond anything that the average person can really comprehend and that goes for all technologies.

A semi trailer load of coal. That would keep the Latrobe Valley (Vic) power stations running for a whole 12 seconds. Yep, seconds.

Torrens Island (SA) runs gas normally but can also use fuel oil. Try to visualise 300 household taps turned on full blast and now imagine if they were flowing oil rather than water. That's roughly how much oil we're talking about.

We can move up to 150 million litres of water through hydro stations in Tas every minute at full output.

It's all big numbers no matter how they are expressed and what technology is involved.

 

[Macquack]

Torrens Island (SA) runs gas normally but can also use fuel oil. Try to visualise 300 household taps turned on full blast and now imagine if they were flowing oil rather than water. That's roughly how much oil we're talking about.

Hi smurf, what does this produce?

 

[IFocus]

Old technology Me old parrot. Let's take all the money thrown at wind wanking and invest it in to efficient clean gas turbines in WA to generate the power to run the Eastern sea board !! Hot air out of Canberra could drive 1000 wind farms me Hearty !

Agree re Canberra I am not sure its been sorted on sufficient gas reserves being reserved for domestic gas consumption.

 

[Smurf1976]

Hi smurf, what does this produce?

Torrens Island Power Station comprises two physical power stations located right next to each other. 'A' station and 'B' station (not the most exciting names but it has long been convention to letter multiple power stations at the same site A, B, C, D etc).

Torrens Island A consists of 4 x 120 MW units and B station consists of 4 x 200 MW. All are conventional steam turbines each with its own boiler.

A station commenced operation in 1967 on fuel oil only, natural gas becoming available and the boilers converted from 1969 onwards. B station commenced operation about 1977 and has always used primarily gas, although the last two boilers were built to enable future conversion to coal-firing if required (though the ability to fire coal has never been installed beyond the basic sizing of boilers to enable it).

In its' heyday Torrens Island of itself produced 70% of all electricity in SA. These days it produces far less, being largely an intermediate and peak load operation with output overnight typically no more than 10% of capacity under most circumstances.

The two chimney stacks at Torrens Island are visible from much of Adelaide and could be considered a landmark of sorts, albeit a very industrial one.

We used to have a technically very similar operation to part of Torrens Island at Bell Bay in Tas, with 2 x 120 MW units running on heavy fuel oil only from commissioning (1971 and 1974) until conversion to gas in 2002 and 2003. Bell Bay ceased operating in 2009 and has since been partly dismantled.

But to put it into perspective, it used to go through about 1.5 million litres of oil each day at full load (240MW). The plant only ever ran intermittently, on average it only ran about 6% of the time during its first 30 years, being used as backup to the hydro system. Unfortunately there was a pressing need to put the station into full baseload operation for a constant 6 months run (plus another month prior to that at half capacity) over the summer of 1990-91. With the first Gulf War going on at the same time that cost some serious $ to the point that money had to be borrowed to keep buying fuel at one point. It then sat idle until the late 1990's.

Photo of Torrens Island Power Station from the net (not my photo). https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CGoU0lRUQAIiv3a.jpg

 

[galumay]

Worth having a read about what a pack of evil pricks these RWNJ's are that are detirmined to squash wind power in Australia. Although they are wacko nuttus from minority parties, you can see the hand of Abbott and Murdoch all over the activity.

We truly are falling into the control of the most vile right wing extremists seen in my lifetime. I dont think there is a 'liberal' minded person left in the LNP. The founders of the party would spin in their graves to see what its become.

LINK

 

[Tisme]

Worth having a read about what a pack of evil pricks these RWNJ's are that are detirmined to squash wind power in Australia. Although they are wacko nuttus from minority parties, you can see the hand of Abbott and Murdoch all over the activity.

We truly are falling into the control of the most vile right wing extremists seen in my lifetime. I dont think there is a 'liberal' minded person left in the LNP. The founders of the party would spin in their graves to see what its become.

LINK

Forget about wind farm noise. What about appointing a pool pump commissioner? The background drone at all hours of the day and night that gets louder and louder the less sleep one gets.

Apparently a hundred or so years on, motorbike makers can't find a muffler that keeps the noise down to roar either, we need a motorbike commissioner too.

Don't get me started on the need for a chainsaw commissioner.

 

[SirRumpole]

Forget about wind farm noise. What about appointing a pool pump commissioner? The background drone at all hours of the day and night that gets louder and louder the less sleep one gets.

Apparently a hundred or so years on, motorbike makers can't find a muffler that keeps the noise down to roar either, we need a motorbike commissioner too.

Don't get me started on the need for a chainsaw commissioner.

What about lawnmowers at 7 am on a Sunday morning ?

 

[Junior]

Family moves out of Morwell home because of ash

Lisa Dourley's family has moved out of their home on Langford St in Morwell after her daughter started suffering from nosebleeds.

"Our homes smell like a briquette. We've got this ash residue falling all over our cars within our homes," she said.

"We've had to move out and we're now living in a hotel."

She says her daughter's nosebleeds have improved since leaving.

"Our community really needs some help. We need the Government to step up. We need to understand what these health effects are," she said.

"I'm really worried about my family's future and my community."

Pregnant women, the elderly, the young and those with pre-existing respiratory problems are most at risk.

136 people assessed for health problems in Morwell

Health Minister David Davis has defended the government's action, saying locals can go to a respite centre at Moe or have their health concerns assessed at a special health centre.

He says 136 people have already been assessed.

Coal is good for humanity.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-02-24/call-for-independent-inquiry-into-morwell-coal-mine-fire/5278594

 

[Smurf1976]

What about lawnmowers at 7 am on a Sunday morning ?

Around here at least that's definitely illegal, no doubt about that whatsoever. Legal time on a Sunday is 10am - 8pm for mowers (8am Saturday, 7am weekdays).

As for wind turbines, they are being targeted simply because they are economical. If solar was the cheapest renewable then we'd have a solar commissioner rather than a wind commissioner, presumably on the basis of something about aesthetics in the suburbs.

It's just the usual "LNP" nonsense about clinging to the past. The closest thing we have today to the "old" Liberal party is Labor. Seriously, the Liberals have gone so far to the Right as to be virtually unrecognisable compared to what the party used to be about. Labor and even the Greens are more favourable to free enterprise than the Liberals are these days - unless that enterprise involves digging something up or chopping it down of course.

 

[sydboy007]

Around here at least that's definitely illegal, no doubt about that whatsoever. Legal time on a Sunday is 10am - 8pm for mowers (8am Saturday, 7am weekdays).

As for wind turbines, they are being targeted simply because they are economical. If solar was the cheapest renewable then we'd have a solar commissioner rather than a wind commissioner, presumably on the basis of something about aesthetics in the suburbs.

It's just the usual "LNP" nonsense about clinging to the past. The closest thing we have today to the "old" Liberal party is Labor. Seriously, the Liberals have gone so far to the Right as to be virtually unrecognisable compared to what the party used to be about. Labor and even the Greens are more favourable to free enterprise than the Liberals are these days - unless that enterprise involves digging something up or chopping it down of course.

I was on holiday when Abbott did his wind farm interview with Alan Jones. When I caught up on it I was just left stunned. I felt like listening to a member of the tea party in the USA. the RET is probablly the only thing we have left that will meaningfully help to reduce our carbon emissions in a cost effective way. Certainly beats the non market communist esque system of paying polluters to reduce their emissions.

This is what you get with a weak and ineffective opposition. Hopefully the greens start to get hear a bit more, especially now they seem to have a decent leadership team and policies that will resonate with younger voters.



http://www.aweablog.org/more-positive-developments-on-wind-turbine-sound/

In fact, it turned out, while the Alberta Utilities Commission, which regulates electricity in the province, has a 13-year-old database with the records of 31,000 contacts from members of the public, not one of those 31,000 contacts has been about the sound of operating wind turbines. That's a very striking finding, but it lends credence to the work of Australian Prof. Simon Chapman of the University of Sydney, who has a pending study finding that complaints about turbine sound in Australia are heavily focused on areas where anti-wind groups have been conducting public campaigns.

 

[Junior]

Senate inquiry calls for new national rules to curb wind farms
Date
August 3, 2015 - 8:28PM

Tom Arup
Environment editor, The Age

The Abbott government should draw up national rules restricting how wind farms are built and operated and punish states that do not accept them, a Senate committee has urged.

In its final report published on Monday evening, the committee puts forward a range a measures to curb wind farms, including recommendations to reduce support for projects under the national renewable energy target.

The inquiry's recommendations were backed by government and crossbench senators on the committee. But Labor members wrote a dissenting report rejecting the proposals as expensive, duplicative and unworkable.

The report comes at a sensitive time for the Australian wind industry, which has seen investment dry up over the past 18 months on the back of uncertainty surrounding government support.

In particular the industry points to the protracted push by the Abbott government to reduce the national renewable energy target, a push which was ultimately successful. The government has also directed the Clean Energy Finance Corporation not to invest in wind farms.

The majority report said the committee believed the science on wind farms and human health problems was "evolving". It is critical of past reviews by the National Health and Medical Research Council which found no reliable evidence connecting wind turbines with health problems.

Amid the recommendations it is proposed that an independent scientific panel be established, which would have the power to block new projects being registered by the government if it believed human health was at risk.

The panel would also help draw up "national wind farm guidelines", which the federal government would introduce and ask state governments to adopt.

Those guidelines would include national standards on wind farms for infrasound, vibrations, aircraft safety, indigenous heritage, birds and bats, shadow flicker, fire risk, electromagnetic interference and blade glint, among other things.

If a state government did not accept a new national measure for infrasound and low-frequency noise, the committee recommends that wind projects built in those states should not get renewable energy certificates under the national target, which are used to help subsidise new wind farms.

The committee also wants changes made to the renewable energy target to cut back subsidies for projects. It recommends projects only be granted five years of renewable energy certificates, significantly less than an operator would currently get. But the committee also wants the government to draw up rules allowing renewable energy projects to qualify for carbon credits.

A spokesman for Environment Minister Greg Hunt said the government had no plans to make further changes to the renewable energy target, effectively ruling out the inquiry's recommendations to reduce certificates and block them in states that don't comply with new national rules.

But the government has previously agreed with crossbench senators to establish a wind farm commissioner and a scientific panel, and to promote national guidelines with states, echoing some of the report's recommendations.

National wind farm guidelines were discussed at a meeting of national environment ministers last month, but the concept was rejected by a number of state governments at the meeting.

The committee also proposes an investigation of the power price impact of wind farms.

The inquiry was led by Senator David Leyonhjelm of the Liberal Democrat Party and independent senator John Madigan.

Surely they are taking the pi55.

This is depressing.

 

[pixel]

Surely they are taking the pi55.

This is depressing.

Are these morons for real?

Australians prides themselves as the "Clever Country". yet the allow themselves to be ruled by imbeciles. How utterly depressing!

 

[sydboy007]

Surely they are taking the pi55.

This is depressing.

The majority report said the committee believed the science on wind farms and human health problems was "evolving". It is critical of past reviews by the National Health and Medical Research Council which found no reliable evidence connecting wind turbines with health problems.

I'd love to know how the science on wind farms is evolving. We've had decades of turbines being used and no credible evidence of any negative impacts. Possibly these committee members need to spend a few weeks near an open pit coal mine or maybe backing onto a rail line carting coal. See if their attitudes change.

 

[pixel]

I'd love to know how the science on wind farms is evolving. We've had decades of turbines being used and no credible evidence of any negative impacts. Possibly these committee members need to spend a few weeks near an open pit coal mine or maybe backing onto a rail line carting coal. See if their attitudes change.

They don't see the coal mine, only $$-signs.
Rich people, especially leeches that can award themselves all the perks they desire, don't go near coal dust; if it can't be avoided, they take a plane of helicopter to fly them over the scarred landscape. Near-by living space is left to the plebs of the lower classes. "And never the twain shall meet."

 

[explod]

They don't see the coal mine, only $$-signs.
Rich people, especially leeches that can award themselves all the perks they desire, don't go near coal dust; if it can't be avoided, they take a plane of helicopter to fly them over the scarred landscape. Near-by living space is left to the plebs of the lower classes. "And never the twain shall meet."

Now that's a first for the libs, they are wowied about the birds and bats.

Hey, they are the birds and bats.

 

[Smurf1976]

"The Abbott government should draw up national rules restricting how wind farms are built and operated and punish states that do not accept them"

Surely they are taking the pi55.

This is depressing.

Emphasis mine.

Let me guess. Here comes another fight Tasmania Vs the Australian Government and yep, it's about electricity.

What a surprise that we'd have politicians in Canberra coming up with a plan that strangles energy development in the island state lest Tas steals a factory or two from another state on the basis of cheap power. Nothing new about that idea, all that's changed is the means of power generation.

Not going to steal any factories? Probably not steal them, but it's worth noting that we've got new investment into metal processing here in Tas at the same time the industry is shutting down plants in Vic and NSW. No prizes for guessing that electricity has quite a lot to do with that, hence it's entirely sensible for the Australian Government to find a way to mess it up and prevent anything resembling economic growth in this state. Then we'll have the usual whinging about after other states propping up the Tas economy after Tony and Co cut off something that's actually working down here - renewable energy and energy-intensive industry.

The good news is that at least the Liberals down here seem willing to go against their interstate counterparts where renewable energy is concerned. Not that they have too much choice if they'd like to be re-elected, if they oppose it then that puts them in the anti-development category and leaves the voting choice as Labor Vs Liberal - Greens (just like what happened in the late 1990's) but it's good to see nonetheless.

As for Tony Abbott, well there's a place for him certainly. In a museum along with an assortment of other items from the 1950's or earlier.

 

[sydboy007]

Emphasis mine.

Let me guess. Here comes another fight Tasmania Vs the Australian Government and yep, it's about electricity.

Amazing isn't that one hte one hand Abbott is going to provide tens of billions in defence pork to SA due to the shutting of the car industry, and on the other hand he's caused any renewable energy investment in the state to shrivel up and die.

One comes out of my pocket, the other is relatively free market.

Sometimes the Abbott Govt seems so communist it makes me laugh bitter sweet tears.

 

[Junior]

Hazelwood worker says lung illness caused by mine fire
Date
August 12, 2015 - 5:29PM

Suffering a rapid decline in health this year due to an irreversible lung disease, Mr Briggs is in no doubt what caused his sickness: the Hazelwood mine fire.

The fire in Gippsland coal mine burnt for 45 days in February and March, last year exposing Morwell to high levels of smoke and ash. Firefighters and other workers on the site also had to endure the smoke.

Mr Briggs was hospitalised for five weeks in January and says he now has less than half of his lung capacity making the most simple of task, including showering and getting dressed, exhausting.

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He is now taking anti-rejection drugs in preparation for a lung transplant, should one become available.

He is also on other drugs and steroids as he battles a form of pulmonary fibrosis.

Last year Mr Briggs worked for RTL Mining and Earthworks, operating excavators at the Hazelwood mine site as the fires burned.

Part of his work was to dig out the burning coal and stockpile it so it could not spread and could be more easily managed.

But, unlike the firefighters who worked the mine, Mr Briggs had no breathing apparatus or even a face mask.

"There was no supplied mask, there was never any mention of it," Mr Briggs said.

He worked long hours and for up to seven nights in a row to help contain the blaze.

Before he began work at Hazelwood Mr Briggs said he had to undergo a physical which showed the 54-year-old had above average lung capacity.

Mr Briggs has never smoked.

"I was very healthy, and being a country bloke I was very active," he said.

A claim for workers compensation has so far failed and his case is now being examined by Maurice Blackburn Lawyers.

RTL Mining and Earthworks declined to comment when contacted by Fairfax Media.

"They need to recognise that this was an incredibly unsafe environment," Mr Briggs said.

"My condition can only deteriorate."

Doctors' notes seen by The Age show that they believe working at the mine fire could be a "valid cause" for the type of complicated lung disease Mr Briggs suffers.

The Andrews government has reopened the inquiry into the Hazelwood mine fire to further examine the impact the fire had on the community.

"The local community and volunteers and contractors who worked on the fire deserve to know what impact the fire may have had on their health and the health of their loved ones," a spokeswoman for Health Minister Jill Hennessy said.

Gino Andrieri​, principal at Maurice Blackburn, said the firm was in the very early stages of investigating a claim on behalf of Mr Briggs.

"We are seeking information about his medical condition from his treating doctors," he said. "It is important that anyone who believes they have an illness or symptoms following the fire at Hazlewood coal mine should seek medical help as soon as possible so their symptoms can be monitored and treated accordingly."

With Farrah Plummer

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/h...-mine-fire-20150812-gixkcb.html#ixzz3iest35nt