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Execute or Rehabilitate Indonesian Style

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Tisme

Tisme

Apathetic at Best
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Upfront, my family is the victim of drug addiction .... it destroyed a wonderful family.

So when the Bali 9 were pinged trying to leave after the AFP tipped of the Indonesians, I was rather glad the filth who feed the likes of my son where off the streets. I discovered one of the 9 was actually an acquaintance of my son and he was a nice kid as I recall. Later someone suggested to me the Bali 9 would have been the Bali 10 had the associated family not been tipped off.

I'm pretty sure the AFP were naïve in thinking they weren't handing these guys a death sentence, otherwise they would be breaking our laws in sending our citizens to firing squads.

So I am confused why the Indonesians would prolong the lives of people who are to be executed regardless of the courts. They did it with the Bali bombers as well.

I'm thinking there might be some spiritual significance e.g. preparation for the after life?

I think it's cruel, which must be my Christian remnants kicking in and if the death sentence is mandatory it should be done swiftly and spare the agony of the prisoner and the families. That is not to say I condone killing.

Your thoughts?
 
At the end of the day it is their country and their laws but it does seem bloody cruel. These 2 have been rehabilitated, it just doesn't make sense go through the rehabilitation only to kill them anyway. I used to have the attitude with these two that they knew full well the risks and there for must pay the crime. But having seen several stories over the years and they have genuinely changed into individuals that would fit right back into society and can contribute to this world in a positive way.

Given Australia's laws I really feel the AFP need to review how they share information with Indonesia in the future when it involves Australians that may face the death penalty if convicted. If Indonesia won't allow us to extradite our citizens back to Australia to serve out their crime then we probably shouldn't share information on drug related matters.

It's probable that the Bali 9 may not have had been rehabilitated if not faced with the death penalty, I guess spending that time on death row can really help you find yourself. It's quite cruel the process they go through now, if i recall correctly they won't be told a day their execution will take place, they will be pulled out of their cell with a bag over their head, they will be driven to an undisclosed location where they will face a firing squad.
 
Obviously , there are mixed feelings about this.

At one level there is the reality that they knew what they were doing and should be prepared to accept the consequences. I don't really have a lot of sympathy for them, but their crime can't be compared to terrorism where there is a clear intent to kill a large number of people. As repugnant as drug smuggling is, I don't think it deserves the ultimate penalty.

I'm suspicious of their "rehabilitation". If they had got away with their crime they would be laughing over the proceeds and care nothing for their victims. I don't think their apparent "reformation" should be given any weight.

Why the AFP could not have arrested them when they returned to Australia I don't know. The plan was to smuggle drugs into Australia. The victims would have been Australian. It should be up to us to deal with the criminals.
 
I do not like the death penalty as well,and from my point of view it would be better to keep them locked up for another ten years.
Having a druggo in our family as well,I understand very well why Asian countries have no tolerance for drugs.
They lie,they steal and drag the rest of their families down with them.People unworthy of respect.The sympathy runs out.
I have an old photo that we took in the 1980s,at the time of Barlow and Chambers.The photo was taken crossing the border between Singapore and Malaysia and without finding it ,the warning sign said "The penalty for drugs is death".
In countries without a social safety net they cannot afford to be lenient with drug dealers.
Having said this wasn't Corby lucky,after being found guilty.
 
Whilst in Kuala Lumpur recently I had a long talk to a 68 year old local.He invited me to sit by him in a crowded cafeteria .He was articulate in English and had a relative in Australia that he had visited (Brisbane).The things that he particularly liked about Australia were the pension scheme and Medicare.
He said that his two sons provided him and his wife with enough money to live on.He said that they only bought food and never bought new clothes.He suggested that without their help he may well be begging on the streets.
When he left I shook a withered hand,thanked him for an interesting conversation, and he then limped off.
What would happen to people like this if his sons were drug addicts?
Countries where people still respect their parents and elders,and where the government for years has been preaching tolerance and respect for others.
Better to be deadly serious about drugs than let the insidious rot set in.
 
chiff said:
What would happen to people like this if his sons were drug addicts?
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The same thing that happends to the Pedafiles and other seriouse threats to the community. In 3rd world countries they just disappear, no court case, no BS they just disappear. The community just looks at it in a way that person was defective, they cannot afford people like that living in there communities.

As for the bali 9 I'm sure as **** they are sorry and I do feel for them, but looking at them I would not want them living next to me should they return to Australia.
 
SirRumpole said:
I'm suspicious of their "rehabilitation". If they had got away with their crime they would be laughing over the proceeds and care nothing for their victims. I don't think their apparent "reformation" should be given any weight.
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I agree. They got caught. What option did they have other than to make the best of it in the hope that the law would change and save them from the widely known penalty, or that some angel of mercy would provide them with salvation.

If they'd got away with it, odds are that they'd go on to do it again and again. Much less likely that they'd suddenly experience a revelation that they were doing something vile and decide to thenceforth live selfless, altruistic lives.

chiff said:
Better to be deadly serious about drugs than let the insidious rot set in.
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+1.

Re the death penalty, I'm 100% opposed to it in our own country, but the Indonesians are entitled to make their own laws. It's not as if they don't make those laws absolutely clear.

I feel for the families of the two about to be executed. There are plenty of instances where parents do their best for kids, but they still run amok.
 
The death penalty actually doesn't change crime rates endless studies have confirmed this repeatedly.

It is unfortunately the ultimate demonstration of executive power over the masses nothing more.
 
The only reason you'd spare the life of these people would be if they devoted their life to doing good. At least that way they could pay back some of the damage they have done to other humans. That is my idea of what rehabilitation should be.

Opposed to going back to society and living a normal life eating and drinking and enjoying life.

There in lies the problem. No one is a fortune teller, so if they get shot they get shot.

No sleep lost.
 
Bali Nine duo Myuran Sukumaran and Andrew Chan will be executed this month

INDONESIA has formally told the Australian Embassy in Jakarta that the Bali Nine duo will be executed this month.

“We have sent notification to the Australian Embassy yesterday afternoon, to notify that the execution will be held this month,” Indonesian Foreign Ministry spokesman Armanantha Nassir confirmed.

“We sent the notification after we were notified by the Attorney General about the execution plan,” he said.
Myuran Sukumaran and Andrew Chan were told the devastating news this morning in jail by the Australian Consulate to Bali, Majel Hind sources told News Corporation.

The Indonesian Foreign Ministry confirmed it had formally told the embassies of all the foreign citizens facing execution last night that their clemency had been denied and they would be executed.
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http://www.news.com.au/world/asia/bali-nine-duo-myuran-sukumaran-and-andrew-chan-will-be-executed-this-month/story-fnh81fz8-1227210558261
 
I don't know why Australia are contemplating taking some diplomatic action should Indonesia go ahead with the executions. Although I disagree with the death penalty for such crimes, if Australia intends to show disapproval in principle for the death penalty, then we should have taken such action for every execution, not just those of Australians.
 
bellenuit said:
I don't know why Australia are contemplating taking some diplomatic action should Indonesia go ahead with the executions. Although I disagree with the death penalty for such crimes, if Australia intends to show disapproval in principle for the death penalty, then we should have taken such action for every execution, not just those of Australians.
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True, but I suppose it's our embassies job to look after our citizens first, but the principle is the same.

We didn't make many protests about the execution of the Bali Bombers, but if there is any crime for which execution is justified it's terrorism or genocide. The execution of drug traffickers raises the degree of their crimes to that of mass murderers which is cockeyed reasoning imo.
 
SirRumpole said:
True, but I suppose it's our embassies job to look after our citizens first, but the principle is the same.

We didn't make many protests about the execution of the Bali Bombers, but if there is any crime for which execution is justified it's terrorism or genocide. The execution of drug traffickers raises the degree of their crimes to that of mass murderers which is cockeyed reasoning imo.
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If you had seen the misery that these drugs bring to addicts, addicts' families, victims of drug crimes and their families, you might possibly review that "cockeyed". Murder victims die once. Drug addicts die over years and often drag scores of innocent victims down with themselves.

So, mainstream Australia considers every human life precious and worth living, regardless of the misery its carrier brings to himself and his surroundings. Indonesia and many other countries don't hold that view, but value the life of victims - whether real and tangible, or indirect and potential - more highly than a perpetrator's.

Such is life: Accept Indonesia's sovereignty and let them mete out punishment according to their justice system. If the drug traffickers don't like it, they can stay away from Indonesia etc. Pick a soft country and when you get caught, only risk life behind bars, no worries, no responsibilities, all expenses paid by taxpayers.
 
If the execution of Myuran Sukumaran and Andrew Chan goes ahead, I wonder if Australian tourism to Bali will be affected $$$?

I think capital punishment is barbaric, and countries that exercise this punishment are usually third world.
 
I think what has changed is that BBY is no longer president and his place has been taken by Joko W-much more severe on drug offences.
 
You have to wonder if the AFP will continue to cooperate with Indonesia in drug investigations.

It would be hard politically for the government to be indirectly complicit in the murder of Australian citizens for whatever reason. If we help Indonesia, there is no reason why they can't help us if our government's opposition to the death penalty is genuine.
 
I feel sorry for these 2, but they knew the rules.

Having said that, l don't think that the death penalty matches this crime. Also, there are other drug king-pins who operate in Indonesia and l bet they are in bed with the police. Killing these 2 is just to show people that they are doing something on the drug trade. Smoke and mirrors.
 
My guess is that any pleas or entreaties from Australia will not be successful with Joko Widodo.Before his election as president he was saying that Australia did not treat Indonesia with respect whilst the boat stopping exercise was taking place.
He has a harder edge than BBW,it seems.
 
Macquack said:
If the execution of Myuran Sukumaran and Andrew Chan goes ahead, I wonder if Australian tourism to Bali will be affected $$$?

I think capital punishment is barbaric, and countries that exercise this punishment are usually third world.
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There have been polls taken over the years which suggest that many Australian's are for capital punishment (some polls showed a result of more than 50% agreeing with this form of punishment). However, this would be saved for the worst types of crimes rather than drug related crimes as in this instance.

When the terrorists were caught for the Bali bombings back in 2002 the Australian public and even the Prime Minister (Howard) at the time supported and expected the death sentence for those individuals because so many Australians were killed. To me this shows that we as a society don't actually disagree with the death penalty we just disagree upon when it should be used.
 
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