Legalise some drugs, outlaw others?

[Value Collector]

I'm sure I'm not the only one that has endured the agony of seeing one of their kids slide into drug addiction and become mentally ill in the process?

I am sorry you had to go through that.

My boy's choice was hooch and you can imagine how uncomfortable I am listening to people brand it as innocuous and beneficial.

I can imagine you must be uncomfortable, But I also imagine it would be the same for people who's loved one lives have been altered through alcoholism or smoking, I find it hard to draw a line in the sand on where peoples rights to do things ends and the right of government mandated safety starts.

I have to give it to whoever the people are that have inculcated large swathes of the population into believing we somehow took an evolutionary step up when the minute hand swept past midnight 2000 and everything our ancestoral wise made taboo from experience became open for debate again.

Different societies have different taboos, you might find in some Muslim cultures wine is taboo, but hooch is ok, all cultural taboos should be up for debate.

Many cultural taboos have been broken for good reasons, eg married women in the workforce was a taboo, as was interracial marriage, and anything to do with the LBGT community, or even just eating meat on Fridays.

I will never support legalising drugs.

where exactly do you draw the line though, I mean do you support prohibition of alcohol?

 

[DB008]

Richard Di Natale announces bill on medicinal cannabis

ALP/Libs should hang their heads in shame on this issue. The Greens are way infront on this. I had a relative pass away from cancer last year. Medical Marijuana could certainly have help him during chemo.

 

[Tink]

I'm sure I'm not the only one that has endured the agony of seeing one of their kids slide into drug addiction and become mentally ill in the process? My boy's choice was hooch and you can imagine how uncomfortable I am listening to people brand it as innocuous and beneficial.

I have to give it to whoever the people are that have inculcated large swathes of the population into believing we somehow took an evolutionary step up when the minute hand swept past midnight 2000 and everything our ancestoral wise made taboo from experience became open for debate again.

I will never support legalising drugs. I hate that the courts just kept slapping convictions and fines, with a requirement to watch a video for punishment; they should have refrained from destroying any hope of a decent job and be allowed to impose a worthwhile rehab programme as early intervention, without a stain forevermore. The fallout on the rest of the family was and still is devastating

Sorry to hear about your son, Tisme.
I agree with your post completely, even though I haven't had anything like that close to home.

DB, I would never agree with legalising drugs, I have said that before.
That article I posted regarding ice, just shows how easily things get transported to the children.

There is a problem in society.
We grew up with zero tolerance.

Once upon a time, drunks were frowned upon, how is it now?
What happened to looking out for your friends?
I don't like the way the language has changed to 'just another drug' for the drug pushers.
The bad outweighs the good.

 

[Tisme]

Sorry to hear about your son, Tisme.
I agree with your post completely, even though I haven't had anything like that close to home.

DB, I would never agree with legalising drugs, I have said that before.
That article I posted regarding ice, just shows how easily things get transported to the children.

There is a problem in society.
We grew up with zero tolerance.

Once upon a time, drunks were frowned upon, how is it now?
What happened to looking out for your friends?
I don't like the way the language has changed to 'just another drug' for the drug pushers.
The bad outweighs the good.

Thankyou Tink.


Value Collector thankyou for your empathy too. Insofar as the other social norms, I must admit I am less hardline of alcoholism, but nonetheless won't advocate it's use; it too can bring out the worst behaviours in people, but weed is far more insidious and from what I know now a journey that permanently destroys parts of the mind and personality without overtly damaging the shell.

Besides I'm averse to using one evil to justify another evil.

 

[SirRumpole]

My condolences also Tisme. How is your son now ?

I really don't know what to do about the wider drug problem. Forty years or more of a "war on drugs" does not appear to have had much success. The more you make a black market out of drug pushing, the more lucrative it is and the more people are willing to take the risk of selling the stuff.

I don't think we can treat users as criminals. They are in fact victims of crime who need our support. If giving them drugs legally stops them buying it from the scum and therefore drives the drug pushers out of business then overall it may be the best solution in the long run.

 

[DB008]

The Hottest Pot Shop in San Francisco | CNBC

 

[DB008]

Big illicit drug seizures don't lead to less crime or drug use, study finds

Large-scale seizures of heroin, cocaine and amphetamines by police do not reduce the number of overdoses or arrests for possession and use of the drugs, according to the largest Australian study ever conducted into the area.

The study by the NSW Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research (BOCSAR) also found that the frequency and quantity of heroin, cocaine and amphetamines being seized by authorities had no effect on theft, robbery and assault figures.

However, the authors warn against concluding that this means the pursuit of large scale drug busts is a waste of time and money as the risks associated with being caught continue to keep prices high and a lid on the amount consumed.

"It shows it's probably better to spread fear and loathing among drug traffickers than focusing on increasing the amount of drugs that are seized," said BOCSAR director Don Weatherburn.

The study, to be published on Thursday, examined all significant seizures of heroin, cocaine and amphetamines in Australia between July 2001 and June 2011.

This data was tracked against emergency room admissions for drug overdose and arrests for drug use and possession over the same period.

The study also looked at the effects of a "high-level" NSW Crime Commission operation in 2010 that led to the seizure of a large amount of cocaine and the arrest of key players in the Sydney cocaine market.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/big-illicit-drug-seizures-dont-lead-to-less-crime-or-drug-use-study-finds-20141126-11uagl.html

 

[DB008]

How they do it in Amsterdam.

Saving lives!

 

[Tink]

More people are killed on the state’s roads while driving under the influence of illicit drugs such as ice than from alcohol, police statistics show.

Between November 14 and December 3, Operation RAID had detected 245 drug-affected drivers and led to 193 vehicles being impounded.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/leader/...143713906?sv=b55350932338d2560be0668a1d75ea27

 

[Value Collector]

More people are killed on the state’s roads while driving under the influence of illicit drugs such as ice than from alcohol, police statistics show.

Between November 14 and December 3, Operation RAID had detected 245 drug-affected drivers and led to 193 vehicles being impounded.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/leader/...143713906?sv=b55350932338d2560be0668a1d75ea27

Interesting stats, but I fear they are not quite telling the full story.

Anyone that tests positive to drugs is immediately charged, however with alcohol, your only charged if you are over 0.05% blood alcohol. So in the same time period that the caught 245 drug users, many, many more alcohol users would have been found, but the majority would have been released with out any records taken because they were under the limit.

Also the drug tests can detect users ever after the intoxication has subsided.

 

[Tisme]

Interesting stats, but I fear they are not quite telling the full story.

Anyone that tests positive to drugs is immediately charged, however with alcohol, your only charged if you are over 0.05% blood alcohol. So in the same time period that the caught 245 drug users, many, many more alcohol users would have been found, but the majority would have been released with out any records taken because they were under the limit.

Also the drug tests can detect users ever after the intoxication has subsided.

Alcohol doesn't tend to give a second (and more) high after the initial come down like weed (and others) does.

 

[Value Collector]

Alcohol doesn't tend to give a second (and more) high after the initial come down like weed (and others) does.

Whats this second high you get from weed?

Large doses of alcohol does tend to give you a hangover, which in bad cases can incapacitate people for a day or more.

 

[DB008]

Victory: Congress ends war on medical marijuana

In a landmark moment for cannabis law reform, the U.S. House of Representatives approved a measure late Thursday night to de-fund the federal war on medical marijuana. The provision passed the Senate Saturday and is expected to be signed by President Obama, bringing a halt to the three-year-long medi-pot crackdown in California and other states.

The Hinchey-Rohrabacher Amendment to the $1.1 trillion cromnibus spending bill blocks the use of Department of Justice funds to “prevent [medical marijuana states] from implementing their own State laws that authorize the use, distribution, possession, or cultivation of medical marijuana.”

The vast majority of Americans (78 percent) support states’ right to allow access to medical cannabis.

The spending bill also contains a provision aimed at Washington DC legalization. The rider inserted by Republican Maryland Rep. Harris would prevent federal funds from being used to “enact or carry out any law, rule, or regulation to legalize or otherwise reduce penalties associated with the possession, use, or distribution of any schedule I substance under the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 801 et seq.) or any tetrahydrocannabinols derivative.”

http://blog.sfgate.com/smellthetruth/2014/12/12/congress-ends-war-on-medical-marijuana/

I think that Australia is between 5-10 years behind the US on medical marijuana.

 

[Value Collector]

An interesting point.

 

[DB008]

Colorado Sells $34 Million Of Cannabis: $3.4 Million Goes To Schools, Crime Down 15%

In 2012, Colorado and Washington state legalized the recreational use of marijuana, much to the dismay of anti-pot advocates. They frequently alleged that it would make it easier for children to acquire, that more people would use it, that there would be more people driving while high, and that it would be an all around bad deal for these states.

In Colorado, it’s safe to say that the doomsayers were 100% wrong. Sales of recreational marijuana continue to rise with more than $34 million worth sold in August alone. That means that the state raised $3.4 million for building and maintaining schools in the state. At the rate the state is going, some $30 million will be brought in from pot taxes alone. That’s some serious dough!

Even better, crime has suddenly and sharply dropped in the state, providing evidence that clearly counters the idea that crime would rise with the plant’s legalization. Overall crime has dropped by 15%, and murder is down by nearly half. The government is planning to allocate some of the state tax money from pot to improving infrastructure and employing more people, even now as the unemployment rate continues to drop.

Right now, there are 100 legal dispensaries in Colorado. Could they really be doing any more harm than the numerous bars? At the end of the day, you have to acknowledge: legal weed has not been harmful to Colorado, but rather, it looks like things in the Centennial State will only improve.

http://higherperspective.com/2014/12/colorado.html?utm_source=CNT

 

[DB008]

Bangalore oncologists want cannabis legalised to help fight cancer

Top oncologists of Bengaluru have decided to lobby with the Centre to lift the ban on cannabis for medicinal purposes due to the health benefits of the drug.

"We are encouraging cultivation of tobacco that causes various types of cancer. At the other end, we are ignoring the medicinal properties of a plant that can help cancer patients. We are not even able to take up research as procurement of the plant is illegal in India, whereas oncologists in 21 states of the US are prescribing derivatives of cannabis for cancer treatment," Dr Vishal Rao, surgical oncologist, told The Times Of India.

Other oncologists also pointed out that cannabis prevents blood supply to a cancer tumour and India is lagging behind other countries in cannabis research, said the report.

Apart from cannabis' ability to fight cancer, it can greatly reduce the pain felt by patients, said a study. Researchers from the University of Oxford found that the psychoactive ingredient in cannabis doesn't reduce the intensity of pain but makes it more bearable.

Scientists have also found that People who smoke marijuana may have lower levels of inflammation which is linked with the risk of heart disease.

http://www.firstpost.com/living/bangalore-oncologists-want-cannabis-legalised-to-help-fight-cancer-2026985.html

 

[DB008]

Ketamine makes unlikely addition to the battle against the blues

Ketamine was first used as an anaesthetic and became a party drug but it could be a breakthrough treatment for people with severe depression.

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2015/s4166265.htm?WT.mc_id=Innovation_News-7.30|KetamineMakesUnlikelyAdditionToTheBattleAgainstTheBlues_FBP|abc

 

[Julia]

Of course it will - in the short term - act as an antidepressant. It is an opiate-like drug, producing euphoria and dissociative state, sometimes hallucinations, originally and currently used as part of anaesthesia.

Ketamine hydrochloride is a rapid acting dissociative which effects profound analgesia. Although it can be used alone in many species, ketamine is an essential component of many successful drug combinations used in wildlife. First synthesized in 1962, ketamine hydrochloride was initially developed as a safer anesthetic alternative to phencyclidine in human medicine. Ketamine was used in psychiatric and other academic research in the 1970’s that documented its hallucinogenic and psychedelic effects. Today, its illicit recreational use, which is internationally recognized, prompted the DEA to schedule ketamine as a CIII under the Controlled Substance Act in 1999.

It is commonly used in veterinary medicine.

God help us if we are thinking of putting people with sadness on to such a potent drug. Might as well just whack a bit of morphine into people imo.

 

[DB008]

Of course it will - in the short term - act as an antidepressant. It is an opiate-like drug, producing euphoria and dissociative state, sometimes hallucinations, originally and currently used as part of anaesthesia.

It is commonly used in veterinary medicine.

God help us if we are thinking of putting people with sadness on to such a potent drug. Might as well just whack a bit of morphine into people imo.

So people who have severe depression keep going about their ways without a way out?

Antidepressant efficacy of ketamine in treatment-resistant major depression: a two-site randomized controlled trial.

Murrough JW, Iosifescu DV, Chang LC, Al Jurdi RK, Green CE, Perez AM, Iqbal S, Pillemer S, Foulkes A, Shah A, Charney DS, Mathew SJ.
Abstract

OBJECTIVE:
Ketamine, a glutamate N-methyl-d-aspartate (NMDA) receptor antagonist, has shown rapid antidepressant effects, but small study groups and inadequate control conditions in prior studies have precluded a definitive conclusion. The authors evaluated the rapid antidepressant efficacy of ketamine in a large group of patients with treatment-resistant major depression.

METHOD:
This was a two-site, parallel-arm, randomized controlled trial of a single infusion of ketamine compared to an active placebo control condition, the anesthetic midazolam. Patients with treatment-resistant major depression experiencing a major depressive episode were randomly assigned under double-blind conditions to receive a single intravenous infusion of ketamine or midazolam in a 2:1 ratio (N=73). The primary outcome was change in depression severity 24 hours after drug administration, as assessed by the Montgomery-Ã…sberg Depression Rating Scale (MADRS).

RESULTS:
The ketamine group had greater improvement in the MADRS score than the midazolam group 24 hours after treatment. After adjustment for baseline scores and site, the MADRS score was lower in the ketamine group than in the midazolam group by 7.95 points (95% confidence interval [CI], 3.20 to 12.71). The likelihood of response at 24 hours was greater with ketamine than with midazolam (odds ratio, 2.18; 95% CI, 1.21 to 4.14), with response rates of 64% and 28%, respectively.

CONCLUSIONS:
Ketamine demonstrated rapid antidepressant effects in an optimized study design, further supporting NMDA receptor modulation as a novel mechanism for accelerated improvement in severe and chronic forms of depression. More information on response durability and safety is required before implementation in clinical practice.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23982301

Ketamine research reports 75pc success rate in treatment of long-term depression

Researchers looking into the use of horse tranquiliser and 'party drug' ketamine say they have had a 75 per cent success rate in using it to treat long-term depression.

"The results are startling," says Melbourne University neuroscientist Associate Professor Graham Barrett, who has been studying depression for 30 years.

"They're not 100 per cent, there are people who don't respond to ketamine, but the results are very, very good."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-01-21/ketamine-hailed-as-new-treatment-for-long-term-depression/6032306

God help us....

 

[Julia]

So people who have severe depression keep going about their ways without a way out?

Did I suggest that? Of course not. I just pointed out that a drug like ketamine will, like morphine or heroin, induce feelings of euphoria so ipso facto you could on that basis classify it as having antidepressant properties.

Many people will experience relief from depression if they have some alcohol, but overall it's a depressant and obviously cannot be considered a suitable drug as long term treatment for depression.

I've never had cocaine or other party drugs but I understand they also provide a sense of well being. Are we therefore going to regard them as anti-depressants?

I'm simply making the same point regarding ketamine.