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I'm not anti-lawyer

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burglar

burglar

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I fell into the hands of the "stereotypical lawyer" when handling Mum's probate.

Next time, I may well fall into the hands of an equally bad lawyer.


Likely, I will be better equipped. (=less trusting)

I will take someone with me.
I will take notes!
I will ask for a "contract agreement", ...
not a fixed price nor written quote.
These animals have a language all their own.

And if it ain't written down, it didn't happen!

Should it ever happen to me again, I shall say,
"Close the file, ...
Send an Invoice."
 
I'm not anti lawyer but,

I've heard of legal firms sending their clients Christmas cards , followed by an invoice for the card...
 
SirRumpole said:
I'm not anti lawyer but,

I've heard of legal firms sending their clients Christmas cards , followed by an invoice for the card...
Click to expand...
Sounds like an apocryphal story to me.

If you regard a lawyer in the same way as any other professional and take some preparatory steps to ensure you are comfortable with him/her, have the clear impression of competence, plus at least an estimate, preferably a quote for the work to be done, I think you're well on the way to a good final outcome.

Not all lawyers are good at everything. Ask around for word of mouth recommendations.

Then phone for a fee-free ten minute appt to get a sense of competence etc before committing to go ahead.

I've done this many times with lawyers, accountants etc., once even with GPs. Some of them, in the first couple of minutes, you know aren't going to be what you want.
I've never been refused that free appt.
 
I have a few good friends as solicitors.

I found one was billing me for a long Phone call when we were
shooting the wind.
Another asked me to let him know if a cheque arrived

I did that cost $45 and his reply "Thanks" another $45.

Many times I have let disputes under $5000

The cost of running something in court and the rubbish you have to fill out---your better off negotiating--I do this all the time.

But in Burglars case and in one where I was owed $80 k and It took 5 yrs to go to court--you don't have an option.

In my case I offered at one time to settle for the $80K and walk away with costs bourne by both---that was $40K to me so far.
He refused and another mate a Barrister (Criminal) Andrew Moffa took it to court for me---No mates rates--he was working--fair enough!.
He's damned good and we won.
12 mths later got the $80K and $78K in Costs
So it was a very expensive exercise for the guy not paying!

My advice
On that first free meeting
do as Burglar says and get I all nailed in writing.
 
Julia said:
Sounds like an apocryphal story to me.

If you regard a lawyer in the same way as any other professional and take some preparatory steps to ensure you are comfortable with him/her, have the clear impression of competence, plus at least an estimate, preferably a quote for the work to be done, I think you're well on the way to a good final outcome.

Not all lawyers are good at everything. Ask around for word of mouth recommendations.

Then phone for a fee-free ten minute appt to get a sense of competence etc before committing to go ahead.

I've done this many times with lawyers, accountants etc., once even with GPs. Some of them, in the first couple of minutes, you know aren't going to be what you want.
I've never been refused that free appt.
Click to expand...

I have a good solicitor, but others charge like wounded bulls

Over-charging by lawyers under scrutiny

The Australian
November 17, 2009 12:00AM


Chris Merritt
Legal Affairs Editor
Sydney

LAWYERS face a national crackdown on over-charging that could end the practice of billing clients for sending them Christmas cards and reading thank you notes. Also for the chop is the practice of charging for using the telephone directory, opening and closing files and organising untidy files.

These are some of the abuses singled out for reform by a federal-state taskforce reviewing the regulation of the legal profession. If the plan is accepted, the nation's lawyers would be prevented from charging for administrative and communication activities that are part of the cost of doing business.

"These costs should be absorbed as overheads by law practices," the taskforce says. In a discussion paper to be made public this week, the taskforce argues that lawyers should adopt the same approach as doctors, who charge for professional services rather than items such as "file-opening fees".

The discussion paper, which has been obtained by The Australian, also calls for rules that would oblige law firms to employ translators to explain cost-agreements to clients from "culturally and liguistically diverse backgrounds".

Rules in most states already say that lawyers "may" provide cost disclosures in other languages and the taskforce says making this a positive obligation would not be unduly onerous. However concerns have already emerged that this proposal could backfire by encouraging law firms to avoid extra costs and the risk of disciplinary action by refusing to accept clients who do not speak English.

The taskforce is also considering new rules to prevent lawyers from avoiding the ban on contingency fees.

While lawyers cannot charge clients a percentage of any damages they might be awarded, this ban does not apply to the litigation-funding industry.

"Generally, practitioners should not be able to avoid these prohibitions by taking a financial interest in a litigation-funder or by their associate or relative taking an interest," the taskforce says.

The taskforce also calls for new rules that would impose a positive obligation on all lawyers - except those working for sophisticated consumers of legal services - to charge legal fees that are "fair and reasonable". This would reverse the current arrangement in which clients who wish to challenge their legal bills have the burden of proving their bills were not fair and reasonable.

"The taskforce considers that placing a positive obligation on law practices to charge fair and reasonable costs would be a more effective consumer protection than the current provisions which place the onus on the client," the taskforce says.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/bus...s-under-scrutiny/story-e6frg97x-1225798392068
Click to expand...
 
tech/a said:
I have a few good friends as solicitors.

I found one was billing me for a long Phone call when we were
shooting the wind.
Another asked me to let him know if a cheque arrived

I did that cost $45 and his reply "Thanks" another $45.
Click to expand...
This from friends???
And you paid it???
 
Caesars judging Caesars. Going by some of the posts in the forum I'm sure the advice will be something along the lines of if you don't like it become a lawyer and fight for what's right yourself....simple really.

We aren't supposed to know anymore than the man on a Bondi Tram, but when we try to do business with a lawyer we are supposed to have the wisdom of Job and smarts of Solomon.
 
I thought the line about sending an invoice for a Xmas card was a joke.

That was until I read a little further down the thread.
 
Julia said:
This from friends???
And you paid it???
Click to expand...

Yep
Paid the emails with a scathing phone call.
Don't think I've had a charge for an email since

The long phone call I did similar and was assured an over zealous
Assistant billed that time slot.
Hasn't happened again but shouldn't have happened
In either case in the first place!

There are no friends in business---rings in my ears!
 
As with any trade or profession, there are good lawyers and bad. You need to find a good one, just as you need to find a good doctor, plumber, mechanic etc if you want the job done well and for a sensible price.

The older I get, the more I realise that finding a good professional or tradesman is harder than it may seem. There's no shortage of lawyers, dentists, mechanics and painters but by definition the average mechanic has average mechanical skills and work ethic. Finding a genuinely good one, in any field, is the hard part and one that's not helped by the reality that a large portion of customers are focused on the quoted price first and foremost.

A good professional or tradesman will rarely be the cheapest. Word of mouth alone gives them pricing power for their services. But whilst a good one might charge a bit more than average, they'll also be honest about that and won't seek to rip you off. If they are taking advantage of clients, well then they're not in the "good" category no matter what skills or experience they might have. :2twocents
 
Smurf1976 said:
As with any trade or profession, there are good lawyers and bad. You need to find a good one, just as you need to find a good doctor, plumber, mechanic etc if you want the job done well and for a sensible price.

The older I get, the more I realise that finding a good professional or tradesman is harder than it may seem. There's no shortage of lawyers, dentists, mechanics and painters but by definition the average mechanic has average mechanical skills and work ethic. Finding a genuinely good one, in any field, is the hard part and one that's not helped by the reality that a large portion of customers are focused on the quoted price first and foremost.

A good professional or tradesman will rarely be the cheapest. Word of mouth alone gives them pricing power for their services. But whilst a good one might charge a bit more than average, they'll also be honest about that and won't seek to rip you off. If they are taking advantage of clients, well then they're not in the "good" category no matter what skills or experience they might have. :2twocents
Click to expand...

As a lawyer myself I can say that it's best to assume that every lawyer is going to rip you off because around 1/3 will if given half a chance and you will have little recourse.

As for having a "good lawyer" the vast majority of legal matters that your average joe will get involved in will merely require a competent lawyer. Lawyers like to make routine matters look harder than they are. You basically want a competent lawyer who won't rip you off.
 
tech/a said:
Yep
Paid the emails with a scathing phone call.
Don't think I've had a charge for an email since

The long phone call I did similar and was assured an over zealous
Assistant billed that time slot.
Hasn't happened again but shouldn't have happened
In either case in the first place!

There are no friends in business---rings in my ears!
Click to expand...
Maybe your experience will be a salutory example to others.
I don't think it's usually a good idea to use friends in any professional capacity. At best, ask them to recommend someone for a particular piece of work.

If you use a friend and they abuse that friendship by the sort of rip offs you've described, it's a bad outcome for both the work done and the friendship.

Keep friends as friends, and professional advisers as that only.
 
Julia said:
... Keep friends as friends, and professional advisers as that only.
Click to expand...

Continuously bumping into good gardeners, pool maintenance people and lawyers!

Julia, I don't know how you do it!

If you are in business, like tech/a, you will meet and befriend "professionals".
You may even talk AFL.

The cousin of a friend even takes clients to see a match!

I knew a lawyer once.
He died 6 years ago. *sad*
 
burglar said:
Continuously bumping into good gardeners, pool maintenance people and lawyers!

Julia, I don't know how you do it!
Click to expand...
I'm just careful about who I choose to do work. Plenty of no-hopers to weed out before finding the good ones.

There's a big difference between being friendly and respectful to someone who is doing work for you, accepting a similar attitude in return, and engaging a personal friend to do any sort of business. If anything goes wrong, then usually the friendship will be over.

If you are in business, like tech/a, you will meet and befriend "professionals".
Click to expand...
I spent most of my working life in business and applied the above rule always.

You may even talk AFL.

The cousin of a friend even takes clients to see a match!
Click to expand...
Again there's a huge difference between entertaining clients and using a friend as essentially an employee.
The two are not even close imo.
 

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