NBN Rollout Scrapped

[drsmith]

No. The framework they created was for a single open-access network with retail competition.

Splitting hairs to say no perhaps. That's a monopoly at the network level.

TPG are trying to use a loophole in the legislation which allows small extensions of existing networks, which made sense because banning any addition could leave new premises 'at the end of the line' without a service until the NBN went through.

It was never the intention to allow TPG (or anyone else) to light up their installed commercial dark fibre, then 'extend' it into hundreds of premises and turn it into a vertical monopoly FTTN network. The legality of those actions is yet to be tested, but in any case could be easily overcome with an amendment to the NBN legislation.

The problem is that banning it would go against Turnbull's public demands for infrastructure competition, while allowing it will destroy his business case. Decisions, decisions.

In essence, an oversight by Labor that leaves MT with an ideological dilemma.

My bolds.

 

[sydboy007]

Splitting hairs to say no perhaps. That's a monopoly at the network level.


In essence, an oversight by Labor that leaves MT with an ideological dilemma.

My bolds.

Probably more due to the ACCC forcing the NBN to moved from an 8 POI rollout to have 121 POIs, so I doubt the ACCC would have made it easy to "strand" all the fibre within metro areas from being used in the way TPG has.

As for splitting hairs, I'd prefer an infrastructure monopoly that HAS to provide open access and that the industry wont need to go through time consuming and costly negotiations every step of the way like has occurred with Telstra.

Are you advocating an NBN model that doesn't have a monopoly infrastructure provider?

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

I can tell you that the NBN will deliver more seats to the LNP, Libs, and Nationals at the next election than any other hair-brained scheme thought up by the ALP Rudd/Gillard Government.

It is an atrocious burden on the population, physically, financially and economically.

Time alone will tell whether it will be a worthwhile infrastructure project in terms of cost/benefit.

I doubt it.

It is a half baked pie.

gg

 

[sydboy007]

I can tell you that the NBN will deliver more seats to the LNP, Libs, and Nationals at the next election than any other hair-brained scheme thought up by the ALP Rudd/Gillard Government.

It is an atrocious burden on the population, physically, financially and economically.

Time alone will tell whether it will be a worthwhile infrastructure project in terms of cost/benefit.

I doubt it.

It is a half baked pie.

gg

Is this along with your prediction that Abbott will turn out to be the best PM Australia has ever had?

 

[overhang]

I can tell you that the NBN will deliver more seats to the LNP, Libs, and Nationals at the next election than any other hair-brained scheme thought up by the ALP Rudd/Gillard Government.

It is an atrocious burden on the population, physically, financially and economically.

Time alone will tell whether it will be a worthwhile infrastructure project in terms of cost/benefit.

I doubt it.

It is a half baked pie.

gg

Yes I'm sure those voters will see a greater benefit from fighter jets......

 

[sydboy007]

Yes I'm sure those voters will see a greater benefit from fighter jets......

They might have to hire the same group from Iran who did their stealth plane photoshop just to convince other countries we'll have a flight capable airforce.

 

[DB008]

Is this along with your prediction that Abbott will turn out to be the best PM Australia has ever had?

Lets be 100% honest here.

At least the Libs have their heads screwed on when it comes to looking after the nations finances.

The ALP had a mantra of spend, spend, spend without thinking....'How are we going to afford this (now) and pay it back later?' Paying ~$12 Billion a year, just in 'interest', is crazy, because they wanted to win votes.

 

[sydboy007]

Lets be 100% honest here.

At least the Libs have their heads screwed on when it comes to looking after the nations finances.

The ALP had a mantra of spend, spend, spend without thinking....'How are we going to afford this (now) and pay it back later?' Paying ~$12 Billion a year, just in 'interest', is crazy, because they wanted to win votes.

So you fully supported Howard freezing the fuel excise which has taken roughly $50 in 2014 $$ from the budget since the decision was made?

You fully support the rolling out of a FTTN network when the Government hasn't completed negotiations with Telstra and Optus and has no idea as to what it will cost to gain access to the copper and HFC networks. If you can't put a $$ figure to what could be a major cost to the rolling out of the network, then how can you say it will be cheaper than the Labor FTTP network? How do they have an credibility left when within 3 months of getting into power their iron clad promise was dropped and the network had over 100% blowout in time?

 

[DB008]

So you fully supported Howard freezing the fuel excise which has taken roughly $50 in 2014 $$ from the budget since the decision was made?

You fully support the rolling out of a FTTN network when the Government hasn't completed negotiations with Telstra and Optus and has no idea as to what it will cost to gain access to the copper and HFC networks. If you can't put a $$ figure to what could be a major cost to the rolling out of the network, then how can you say it will be cheaper than the Labor FTTP network? How do they have an credibility left when within 3 months of getting into power their iron clad promise was dropped and the network had over 100% blowout in time?

Hey Syd. Lets not start a tit-for-tat sptrawler debate here.

I suport FFTH for a start.

Telstra should have been split/sold off as a commodity like the NBN.Co (wholesaler). Selling/moving the biggest telecommunications monopoly to another entity and keeping all the infrastructure to themselves was a mistake.

Drawing out a national scheme bigger than the Snowy Hydro on the back of a paper napkin was doomed to fail from the start (aka - Pink Batts brain fart), even though it was probably what Australia needed at the time. I support the NBN, but not the way it has been rolled out.

Every other industry is dying right now. We need to innovate in something. Technology is a good way to move as the whole world is heading that way. In typical ALP fashion (probably both side of Gov tbh), it has been done in a wasted way. Lets roll out to the country first - get no return...then scratch our heads in why there is no uptake.

Roll out to the most populated areas and business too (CBD - SYD/MEL/BNE/ADL).
Get returns that people can see.
Measure these returns.

Hell, I had faster broadband in Budapest a few years ago (on copper) than I have right now in Sydney.

 

[NBNMyths]

Lets roll out to the country first - get no return...then scratch our heads in why there is no uptake.

Roll out to the most populated areas and business too (CBD - SYD/MEL/BNE/ADL).
Get returns that people can see.
Measure these returns.

Hell, I had faster broadband in Budapest a few years ago (on copper) than I have right now in Sydney.

Your point is made on a false premise…. Or several.

First, it has not been rolled out to the country first. It has been rolled out simultaneously in numerous city/suburban/regional/rural and remote areas. The 5 test areas comprised one each of five various topography and density types, so it could be seen what issues would be faced once the volume rollout began. The selection options and criteria are all documented (as opposed to being a brain fart). Likewise, the volume rollout order was essentially dictated by the ACCC's decision on where the 121 POI would be located, which was in turn dictated by the location of existing transit backhaul.

Second, your assumption that metro areas would result in a faster take-up is false. By far the fastest take-up occurred in the regional areas of Kiama and Willunga. Both achieved about double the take-up rate of the metro trial area in Brunswick.

Third, the claim that "there is no uptake" is also false. The take-up of the NBN (even in the slowest take-up areas) is far, far ahead of the standard tech curve (and any network like it anywhere in the World). In Kiama and Willunga for example, the take-up of the NBN after 18 months was about 300% higher than the take-up of Optus cable in their (metro) footprint after a decade. It was also about double the take-up of Verizon FTTP (USA) after 5 years. NBN take-up after 18 months was 10-20 times higher than the take-up of ADSL in Australia (also after 18 months of availability).

 

[sydboy007]

Got to love how stuck in the dialup lane the Coalition parliament members are.

Steve Ciobo (seat of Moncrief in Queensland) now parliamentary secretary to Ponzi Joe.

Last Tuesday he decided to yet again engage his mouth without getting his facts into gear

“We understand, when you look at the costs of Labor’s rollout ”” how slow it was, how many targets were missed, how many inefficiencies were built into the system, how many disputes there were with contractors ”” that we saw the actual cost of Labor’s NBN rollout forecast to reach over $90 billion. I see in recent media reports that Telstra on their 4G wireless communications network are providing speeds of ”” you guessed it ”” 100 gigabytes.”

Labor MP and former Telstra employee Tim Watts interjected to Ciobo’s speech, stating: “You’re rewriting the laws of physics!” In addition, a member of the Coalition also corrected Ciobo, claiming that the correct term was “megabytes”. However, what appeared to be a different member of the Coalition was then forced to correct that initial correction, noting, correctly, that the appropriate term for measuring broadband speed was ‘megabits’.

So lets do some fact checking:

* $90B for labors NBN?? False. The Government funded review showed with some tweaking the full FTTP network could be rolled out for $54B

* Telstra network hitting 100 gigabytes? False. Real world speeds on the Telstra network tend to max out at on average around 40-60Mbs with a high degree of variability on time of day and location.

Surely members of parliament have to uphold their code of ethics. How can they continually get away with blatant lies, ignoring the information provided by the reviews they themselves sometimes organised?

 

[sptrawler]

Hey Syd. Lets not start a tit-for-tat sptrawler debate here.
.

That's a bit rough Danny, I resemble that remark.

 

[sydboy007]

It will be very interesting to see what Turnbull decides to do now that Morrow has been named in a law suit from his time at PG&E. 9 deaths, over $100M diverted from gas safety and operations.

“For its part, the CPUC has roundly criticised PG&E for inadequate safety practices, internal cost-cutting practices outside industry norms, and the alleged diversion of maintenance funds to executive bonuses and shareholder returns.” (http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/may/23/nbn-executive-legal-action-disasters).

Considering how Turnbull spend over 18 months attacking Quigley, possibly defaming him by claiming he'd been sacked from NBN, hopefully he will be just as determined in extracting answers from Morrow. Somehow I doubt News Corp or Turnbull will be as nearly interested in the past events of Morrows' career as they were with Quigleys'

 

[sptrawler]

Well I don't know about the issues in Townsville.
But in Mandurah W.A, they are saying the same thing, change over or be disconnected.

http://www.nbnco.com.au/about-us/media/news/countdown-started-for-mandurah-to-switch.html

The funny thing is, my place falls in the mapped area and they can't connect me and don't know when they will be able to.lol

Latest update on real life NBN connection.

A mate rang tonight spitting chips, he has taken two days annual leave to connect to the NBN, also foregone an overtime shift.

Apparently this is the third attempt to organise a connection, the previous two were cancelled.

This booking through Telstra was organised a month ago, after their last cancellation, there was an initial visit organised for Friday. Then a further visit next Tuesday for Telstra to intergrate the house appliances eg modem, phone.
They rang him today to say they will have to re schedule, well he is ropeable.lol
Told them they either turn up or f off.
Sounds like a really well oiled machine this NBN.

By the way, he has recieved the change over within 15 months notice.lol

 

[sydboy007]

Latest update on real life NBN connection.

A mate rang tonight spitting chips, he has taken two days annual leave to connect to the NBN, also foregone an overtime shift.

Apparently this is the third attempt to organise a connection, the previous two were cancelled.

This booking through Telstra was organised a month ago, after their last cancellation, there was an initial visit organised for Friday. Then a further visit next Tuesday for Telstra to intergrate the house appliances eg modem, phone.
They rang him today to say they will have to re schedule, well he is ropeable.lol
Told them they either turn up or f off.
Sounds like a really well oiled machine this NBN.

By the way, he has recieved the change over within 15 months notice.lol

Question is is it Telstra stuffing up or NBN?

I deal with Telstra, and lesser extent Optus, on a daily basis and can testify to the large number of times appointments are missed / cancelled by them at the last minute, so if it is NBN causing the problem they're in good company with the current main players. The issue could very well be that Telstra hasn't processed the order properly, which I can understand as NBNs systems are not the most user friendly, even when compared to Telstra LOLS.

-----------

Possibly because my parents and relatives were in an early release area but they were connected to the NBN via their ADSL provider with practically no effort on their part. If an 82 year old pensioner who still refers to an ATA as the cheap voice box for overseas calls can do it, then I would say things ain't too bad.

Would be interesting to see how NBN is comparing to new ADSL installs. Considering Telstra has been caught AGAIN using wholesale data to help it's retail arm try to poach customers it just reinforces why we need a neutral wholesale provider.

 

[sptrawler]

Question is is it Telstra stuffing up or NBN?

I deal with Telstra, and lesser extent Optus, on a daily basis and can testify to the large number of times appointments are missed / cancelled by them at the last minute, so if it is NBN causing the problem they're in good company with the current main players. The issue could very well be that Telstra hasn't processed the order properly, which I can understand as NBNs systems are not the most user friendly, even when compared to Telstra LOLS.

.

I am catching up with him on the weekend, i will find out more.

 

[sydboy007]

I wonder why MT isn't highlighting the issues of delayed trials? If they're having trouble getting power to 1 node what does that say about their chances with tens of thousands of them? It also seems not quite as easy for Telstra to hand over the copper and HFC networks for free as MT lead us to believe.

http://www.zdnet.com/au/nbn-fibre-to-the-node-trials-delayed-7000030026/

NBN Co was due to commence live trials of fibre-to-the-node technology in Umina in New South Wales, and Epping in Victoria at the start of May, however neither trial has yet commenced.

"The Epping trial in Victoria has slowed down a bit, while we work with the utility there to find a power solution. We're working through that," he said.

It comes as reports suggest Telstra and NBN Co will miss the mid-year target for the completion of the negotiations to overhaul the existing AU$11 billion agreement to allow NBN Co to access Telstra's copper and cable networks as part of the multi-technology mix model NBN.

 

[sydboy007]

Some background on what the new NBNCo board had been trying to get away with

In its document, NBN Co noted that it planned to offer five speed tiers for the FTTN/B infrastructure ”” 12/1Mbps (download/upload), 12/5Mbps, 25/10Mbps, 50/20Mbps and 100/40Mbps. These tiers mimic NBN Co’s existing speed tiers for its Fibre to the Premises infrastructure. However, NBN Co noted that selecting the correct speed tier would be “the responsibility of the end user and the provider”.

“For example, NBN Co does not intend to prevent end users and/or providers from ordering the ‘Up to 100Mbps’ speed tier for a service that would typically experience speeds of less than 50Mbps,” the document states. “To assist in ordering FTTN/B services, NBN Co will consider developing a service qualification tool that enables providers to check the estimated speeds available to premises.”

Note they're only considering building a tool to help customers choose the appropriate speed plan. Hopefully they come up with some a bit more accurate than the Government myboradband website that says my 10Mbs connection is in a 17Mbs median speed area.

So yesterday at the Senate Economics Legislation Committee former Communications Minister and Labor Senator Stephen Conroy asked ACCC chair Rod Sims for his opinion on the matter.

“If in ideal conditions, a [Retail Internet Service Provider or RSP] determines that it can deliver a VDSL service of say 38Mbps to an end user, would it be appropriate for an RSP to market that product as an up to 100Mbps service?” asked Conroy. “Well, the circumstance that you’re describing, if I accept the facts as you put them, Senator, would suggest that’s misleading,” responded Sims.

Conroy also asked Sims again to confirm if, under Australian law, it would be “misleading and deceptive” for a RSP to sell a customer a 100Mbps product when the RSP was aware that it could only provide a service of 38Mbps, and the RSP had a product it could sell at up to 50Mbps.

“That would at its face, given those facts, be misleading,” Sims responded again.

Conroy then read out the specific section from NBN Co’s consultation paper dealing with this issue, with Sims confirming that the ACCC had seen the document. “This is NBN Co in writing, saying we don’t mind if you defraud Australian consumers,” Conroy said. “This is NBN Co itself stating that they don’t mind selling a service of up to 100Mbps, when they know the typical experienced speeds are less than 50Mbps. That’s just fraud.”

“Under our terms it’s misleading,” responded Sims.

It's amazing how fast corporate culture can change. It might explain why so many senior staff at NBNCo have left. They couldn't bring themselves to work in a company that is doing it's best to allow customers to pay for services that cannot be provided. Gone from guaranteed speed tiers to an up to and no legislated right as to what you can actually get. Even Ziggy Switkowski has come out and said they can't guarantee anything via FTTN / FTTB. In the USA this kind of practice would have class action written all over it.

 

[So_Cynical]

A bit of NBN work has been going on in my street over the last couple of months, started with Telstra pit rehabilitation and has now moved on to actual cable replacement, pulling out the 40 year old copper and replacing it with brand new copper concrete saws to cut through the foot path, digging trenches, laying new conduit, a big job and finished with copper cables.

Crazy to be going to all that expense to save so little on the Copper v Fibre.

 

[sydboy007]

A bit of NBN work has been going on in my street over the last couple of months, started with Telstra pit rehabilitation and has now moved on to actual cable replacement, pulling out the 40 year old copper and replacing it with brand new copper concrete saws to cut through the foot path, digging trenches, laying new conduit, a big job and finished with copper cables.

Crazy to be going to all that expense to save so little on the Copper v Fibre.

Be thankful they're doing copper remediation in your area. I'd be interested to know what suburb.

I believe they were budgeting for about 10% remediation over the FTTN footprint. If they can honestly get away with around 50% I'd be surprised.