It's not something I lose any sleep over...I am not in denial.
Just so I'm clear.... You're concerned if the ALP don't meet KPIs on a project they're running, but if the Coalition miss KPIs on the same project, you won't be concerned?
NBN Rollout Scrapped
- Thread starter Garpal Gumnut
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Just so I'm clear.... You're concerned if the ALP don't meet KPIs on a project they're running, but if the Coalition miss KPIs on the same project, you won't be concerned?
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Oh, I think Caliope means we're in denail of the fact we're now in a Coalition universe where wireless spectrum has infinite capacity, where signal atenuation over copper occurs at a tenth of the rate in the Labor universe (hence they wotn need that many nodes to do their network), and huge complex network rollouts are bullet proot simply becuase of the poltical party in charge.
Wait till his denail meets reality in a year or two and we'll see how he's feeling then.
Garpal Gumnut
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Just as transistors were quickly overtaken by microchips, within one generation, I would predict that biological methods will be the next frontier, and all the bloody cable will be redundant.
gg
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Sounds like you've been talking to a guy I used to work with. You don't know a Barry in Sydney?
He was a firm believer in various types of aliens and used to tell us he was close to a zero propogation form of communication based on how plants communicate with each other. They even do interstellar chats since the way they communciate has the same signal propogation whether you are in the same room or in a different galaxy.
I dare say the Christian right will be against using biological systems. They can't even get their heads around GM crops or stem cell research, so no way will they see a biological comms system as acceptable.
Garpal Gumnut
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Laugh away.
I predicted Tony Abbott would be PM.
As we speak the transmission of data by biological means is being investigated and will eventually replace
gg
I predicted Tony Abbott would be PM.
As we speak the transmission of data by biological means is being investigated and will eventually replace
gg
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What a load of nonsense. Two "denails!!! You are getting very careless. I guess it's denial syndrome.
And don't worry about how i'll feel in in year or two. Why should I worry? I have no interest in fibre to nodes or premises, but I'd love to see a denail meeting reality.:22_yikes:And as for Myths;
Wrong again. I am concerned about neither.
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What a load of nonsense. Two "denails!!! You are getting very careless. I guess it's denial syndrome.
Then why are you such an active poster in a thread who's topic you have no interest in?
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Biological transmission may be viable over short distances, but nothing beats the speed of light. There's no (theoretical) limit to the amount of data that can be transmitted over a single fibre strand. The only limitation is the frequencies we can use, and our ability to measure the slight wavelength differences so that wave division multiplexing can be used. Those limits have and continue to be increased - 100Gbs per wavelength is being rolled out now.
I'm confident in saying a FTTP has a far longer economic life than FTTN.
Lets see how the auditing of the 70% of ~ 40 million copper pairs goes - in the Coalition universe this will be achieved in 90 days. Just a tad over 300000 pairs to audit each day. Should be a piece of cake.
Considering I was told by Telstra at work today that to get a line tech with the appropriate skills to fix a main cable issue could take up to a week, I have full confidence that MT will work the miracle.
- - - Updated - - -
Just for laughs.
:topic
So_Cynical
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Guys, wasting your time talking sense to the hard core ASF right...they really are not interested in anything new, just winding back the clock and nothingness.
Most of the ASF right just post in the general threads and are 100% politically motivated, no sense, logic or wisdom is sort, just politically biased opinion is offered up....much like the Alan Jones radio show.
Most of the ASF right just post in the general threads and are 100% politically motivated, no sense, logic or wisdom is sort, just politically biased opinion is offered up....much like the Alan Jones radio show.
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Although I would agree that fibre is the best medium available today, I certainly would have issue with that statement. It's plainly illogical. The speed of light is finite, as are the possible attributes of a light stream that can be used, both now and in the future, to encode information, so that creates an upper limit to the amount of data that can be transferred in a given time. That will always be the theoretical limit, irrespective of the transmission/detection capabilities.
Sydboy is essentially correct, in that there is no known theoretical limit. There is (for all intents) an infinite number of light wavelengths in the light spectrum. An optical fibre can carry multiple light streams at any one time, split into different wavelengths (colours). It's called WDM.
There will always be a practical limit though. It comes from the ability of the electronics to detect smaller and smaller differences in colour, but as technology improves, so does that ability. 40 years ago, we were limited to 1 wavelength. 20 years ago maybe 20 wavelengths. Today 128 wavelength systems are common, and more are being tested in the lab. There's no theoretical reason why we couldn't be using 20000 different wavelengths in the future.
In addition to a growing number of wavelengths per strand, the capacity of each wavelength also continues to increase. From 10Gbps to 40Gbps and now 100Gbps per wavelength being used for major links.
'Lab' tests already have 69,000Gbps travelling on a single fibre, over thousands of kilometres. It is unlikely that the practical capacity of a single strand of fibre to each home will ever be overwhelmed, and impossibly unlikely to occur within the next several generations.
Yep Nbn And Syd
So damn obvious that FTTP is far superior to FTTN. I honestly cant see how they will save $$$ with the FTTN model considering their power needs alone.
I hope MT goes quite on the issue and the NBN will just roll on.
Cost is not the issue here. The issue is just about politics which is sad
Shaker
So damn obvious that FTTP is far superior to FTTN. I honestly cant see how they will save $$$ with the FTTN model considering their power needs alone.
I hope MT goes quite on the issue and the NBN will just roll on.
Cost is not the issue here. The issue is just about politics which is sad
Shaker
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Very few argue that FTTP is not superior to FTTN of course it is.
The real question is should the unknown cost of the NBN take precedence over Health, Education and real infrastructure (roads, ports, rail)
Of course it's the issue if the Labor government's NBN was on schedule and budget then it would be easier to accept.
The NBN to date is a joke you guys (NBNMyths/Syd) amaze me you carry on about the NBN as if it was viable.
Your defending something that is smoke and mirrors. Labor's NBN was never going to be built relying on Labor's thought bubble calculations and hopeless policy delivery.
Perhaps a better question for Syd and Myths would be at what extreme of price and delivery would you still justify the NBN .
Don't forget the NBN progress report that was sitting on Albanese's desk is sure to be released by the government shortly
I'm quite positive for the future on the NBN
I think the Australian political cycle is working quite well in this regard.
Firstly the Howard government were culpable in not addressing the issue.
Then the Labor government did what they usually do which is come up with an expensive unrealistic solution
but at least they started the process.
Now finally the Coalition will modify it to meet realistic goals and we will have an outcome which 95% of the
population will be happy with.
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I think what needed to happen was for some of the Coalition members to actually have the NBN at home and see what a difference it makes. I'm amazed at how much my parents use of the internet has changed since they got hooked up to the NBN nearly 2 years ago. They're both in their 60s and making use of the increase in speed and reliability, while saving around $40 / month in telco charges (mainly not requiring a landline anymore).
The level of competition that is occurring for them is amazing too. There was no facilities based competition. All the ISPs there pre NBN were telstra resellers so the cost of an ADSL plan above 1.5Mbs was quite expensive. After the NBN was installed the cost of internet access dropped or at worst stayed the same, and the download quota was increased by up to a factor of 4.
<sarcasm alert>
It's just sad that the take up rate in Kiama has been so poor. No one wants it you know. People in Kiama have migrated to the NBN faster than comparable FTTP rollouts around the world, but you can tell what a white elephant this infrastructure is going to be just by the way it saves people so much money and provides a faster and more reliable service. Absolute waste of taxpayer funds.
Hi Waza
I guess the point is FTTP would of saved costs to Health ultimately and also individuals Health costs. The same will be for most of the major family issues.
On FTTN. I live in a relatively new suburb in WA, less than 20 years old. Our copper network is stuffed. Our cable TV network is also stuffed. The cost base for maintaining the copper network will be massive.
When the details of the copper network is revealed i reckon a rethink will happen. If they don't speak about it then we will get what we deserve not what we should have.
Shaker
I guess the point is FTTP would of saved costs to Health ultimately and also individuals Health costs. The same will be for most of the major family issues.
On FTTN. I live in a relatively new suburb in WA, less than 20 years old. Our copper network is stuffed. Our cable TV network is also stuffed. The cost base for maintaining the copper network will be massive.
When the details of the copper network is revealed i reckon a rethink will happen. If they don't speak about it then we will get what we deserve not what we should have.
Shaker
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Some good points there Syd .............if all our pollies were internet/ computer savvy then we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Here's my personal scenario....I have always gone for the Highest speed plan currently ADSL1 1.5-8 mbps
but I live in a rural area I doubt if the NBN as it is would have reached me in my lifetime.
I would love more speed but am reasonably happy with what I have. I download a heap of content (200g plan )and trade consistently for long hours .I do Skype calls and share screens through Skype and Team Viewer.
As well as that the copper line to my place is degraded and Attenuation reading is way above normal parameters
but still my internet experience is quite good and over the years the price has come down.
If in the future the NBN speeds are available for a cost of a few grand to hook up then I'll be first in line and hopefully it will be sooner rather than later
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No doubt there will be savings to Health with the NBN but I think this is exaggerated plus who's to say that most
hospitals won't get FTTP anyway . Also at what speed do you save money?
Perhaps the 25mbps will save 95% of what 100mbps will save.
We should also have a decent health/ hospital system do we have it? No
Do we have properly funded aged care and protective services for children? No
Do we have proper funding for Science and Technology? No
There are plenty of things we should have but don't get. We must have priorities.
We deserve better internet speeds and we will get them
You demonstrate a lack of understanding of the cost and funding for the NBN.
Cost:
Firstly, the cost is not "unknown". It was first estimated at $43bn by KPMG, which was assessed by Greenhill-Caliburn and being found to be reasonable. The capex forecast was then reduced to $37bn, and later back up slightly after some rollout changes that resulted from the Opts and Telstra deals being signed off.
Since then, the actual cost of the rollout has begun coming in, and is broadly on budget. The AFR reported last week from a leaked draft report that peak funding required had increased slightly (by $1.6bn or ~5%), although that is not public so the accuracy is unknown, and there was no mention of a capex increase.
Funding:
The NBN is funded as an asset on the budget, from the issue of bonds. The bonds are to be repaid from user revenue, not tax/consolidated revenue. So spending on the NBN has absolutely no effect on the spending for the other things you mentioned.
That aside, the NBN will be a benefit to health and education, with many identified uses and huge support amongst the healthcare and education communities.
And, for argument's sake, even if you assume that the NBN was an expense to the budget, it pales into insignificance alongside the health and education budgets. Over the 10-year build of the $40bn NBN, the Govt will spend $1.2 trillion on health, and $500bn on education.
Of course it's the issue if the Labor government's NBN was on schedule and budget then it would be easier to accept.
The NBN to date is a joke you guys (NBNMyths/Syd) amaze me you carry on about the NBN as if it was viable.
Your defending something that is smoke and mirrors. Labor's NBN was never going to be built relying on Labor's thought bubble calculations and hopeless policy delivery.
Perhaps a better question for Syd and Myths would be at what extreme of price and delivery would you still justify the NBN .
Don't forget the NBN progress report that was sitting on Albanese's desk is sure to be released by the government shortly
I'm quite positive for the future on the NBN
I think the Australian political cycle is working quite well in this regard.
Firstly the Howard government were culpable in not addressing the issue.
Then the Labor government did what they usually do which is come up with an expensive unrealistic solution
but at least they started the process.
Now finally the Coalition will modify it to meet realistic goals and we will have an outcome which 95% of the
population will be happy with.
Most of the delay in the NBN came from the time it took to do the Telstra deal, for access to infrastructure. This was necessary before the build could start, otherwise the cost and disruption would have been huge due to the need to lay ducts across the nation.
As noted above, the AFR has already seen the report, and the best they could come up with was a $1.6bn peak funding increase due to the delay in revenue caused by the rollout delay, but no increase in capex.
Also don't forget that the biggest reason the FTTP plan came about was because Telstra (with the 3 amigos in charge) refused to play ball with FTTN back in 2007. It was not possible for the ALP to do FTTN (which was their policy), because to build FTTN you need access to the copper. Telstra were proposing to charge $20bn for it, making FTTN just as expensive as FTTP.
It's yet to be seen how much Telstra will charge for their copper now in order for the Coalition's plan to go ahead.
