2013 Federal Election: 7 September 2013

[drsmith]

This report is the best I could find - ....

I think that while you'll find the Howard Government bdidn't run big enough surpluses during the latter years of the resources boom, it's been Labor in government that's failed to adequately respond on the expenditure side of the ledger in response to reduced revenue growth while in government in order to balance the books.

Lets not forget that the last three years of Coalition tax cuts were implemented under a Labor government during the GFC. Peter Costello was right when he said that if surpluses weren't handed out as tax cuts, Labor would waste the money when in office. Labor has still managed to waste billions anyway.

 

[Calliope]

Labor has still managed to waste billions anyway.

Most posters on this forum wax indignant over Abbott's "over generous" offer to our pregnant working mothers. Yet we just accept as normal that Labor will spend $200,000 on each illegal immigrant just to make them feel at home.

The government has spent $30 million in the run-up to the election on a saturation ad campaign stating that boat people who destroy their documents will never be settled permanently in Australia. It is a fantasy. Since Rudd announced that boat people will be sent to Papua New Guinea and never see Australia, his ploy has collapsed. Three thousand boat people have arrived since then and most are being warehoused in Australia. Based on Labor's policies, they will spend years in the Australian legal system at an average cost to taxpayers of roughly $200,000 a person. Madness.

(My bold)

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/comment/smile-youre-on-candidate-camera-20130825-2sjrn.html#ixzz2d2Z5PgGQ

 

[Julia]

Most posters on this forum wax indignant over Abbott's "over generous" offer to our pregnant working mothers. Yet we just accept as normal that Labor will spend $200,000 on each illegal immigrant just to make them feel at home.

Um, I don't think we accept this as normal at all. It's hardly as if there hasn't been plenty of outrage expressed over it.

 

[Calliope]

Maybe. But criticism of PPL comes from both the left and the right (including me)... but criticism of the enormous waste of billions in providing every service possible for boat people to circumvent the system, is missing from the left.

There is no doubt that both sides are going to waste billions on undeserving recipients. Rudd prefers illegals for his largess...Abbott prefers mothers. It's a no-brainer really.

 

[sydboy007]

I think that while you'll find the Howard Government bdidn't run big enough surpluses during the latter years of the resources boom, it's been Labor in government that's failed to adequately respond on the expenditure side of the ledger in response to reduced revenue growth while in government in order to balance the books.

Lets not forget that the last three years of Coalition tax cuts were implemented under a Labor government during the GFC. Peter Costello was right when he said that if surpluses weren't handed out as tax cuts, Labor would waste the money when in office. Labor has still managed to waste billions anyway.

Howard and Costello are held up as being marvelous economic managers. Abbott uses this belief to imply that he will also be a great economic manager.

I have a lot of issue with this claim because:

* The halving of CGT caused massive house price inflation.

* The increased cost of housing has made the economy far more vulnerable to shocks.

* The increased cost of housing has a huge impact on the quality of life for those with a mortgage - higher than would need be - and renters - rents higher than need be. This is a huge drain on the economy as we now devote far to much of national income to support the over priced housing.

* Flow on effect of the CGT changes is govt revenue is depleted by ~ $5-8B a year due to NG

* By running too small surpluses interest rates were higher than needed.

* Higher interest rates were one of the major causes of the AUD being so over valued which has caused much more damage to the non resource sectors of the economy than needed to occur. The hollowing out of many sectors may be permanent due to this.

* Foreign debt is probably $2-300B higher than it needs to be due to the excessive pricing of housing in this country, along witht eh associated debt boom the house price inflation caused - remember CBAs 'equity mate" adds?

Focusing just on debt as the only indication of good Governence is wrong. The explosion of middle class welfare under Howard was destructive to the economy. He took a temporary jump in the ToT and made permanent increases in Govt outlays and large cuts to Govt revenue. Labor were stupid to go intot he 2007 election promising the last 3 tax cuts, but Howard and Costello wear some of the blame for suggesting them in teh first place.

What would have been better to have been done is run the surpluses they did, and topped this up with either direct payments into super accounts or set up a SWF as a rainy day insurance policy for when it was needed. This would have increased national savings, helped to limit the interest rate increased we had, kept the AUD at a more realistic vauation, helped the rest of the economy have an easier adjustment to the resource boom, limited the hollowing out of manufacturing and made the current budget situation a lot easier to handle.

Remember Howard kept on spending even when the RBA was raising interest rates as inflation was getting out of control. A good economic manager would have set fiscal policy to be in step with monetary policy. Howard was actually fighting the RBA and we saw mortgage interest rates peak at around 9% due to this.

So I really hope Abbott shows more restraint that the Howard Govt, but so far that's not looking likely. His 10 year "plan" will be hard to achieve because it will require a level of fiscal discipline that NO Govt has ever shown.

 

[MrBurns]

Kevin Rudd removing restrictions on foreign investment caused the latest housing bubble, Chinese bought and are still buying, everything regardless of cost. Driving our young out of the market or into very large debt.

I despise that slimy reptile of a man.

 

[Calliope]

So I really hope Abbott shows more restraint that the Howard Govt, but so far that's not looking likely. His 10 year "plan" will be hard to achieve because it will require a level of fiscal discipline that NO Govt has ever shown.

I know you hate the conservatives, but more objective people will judge him against the Rudd/Gillard performance.

 

[sydboy007]

Kevin Rudd removing restrictions on foreign investment caused the latest housing bubble, Chinese bought and are still buying, everything regardless of cost. Driving our young out of the market or into very large debt.

I despise that slimy reptile of a man.

* Can you explain the difference between the current treatment of foreign investors for housing and how it was under Howard? I ask because I don't know and you say you do.

* You still love Howard even though his CGT changes allowed boomers to NG into housing and push house price inflation to stratospheric levels. Vale the FHB

 

[sydboy007]

I know you hate the conservatives, but more objective people will judge him against the Rudd/Gillard performance.

How about you confine your posts to facts rather than character assessments?

Please put some effort in and refute what I have posted or just stay quiet for a change.

FYI - I have equal displeasure with both sides of politics.

I'm assuming you believe you are in the objective group of people?

I have my point of view, but at least when I post I supply a reasonable level of information to support my view. I have no issue with someone questioning my reasoning, just so long as they explain why they think I'm wrong with some supporting evidence to back up their claim.

I don't think I've seen you ever realy contribute to the debate Calliope. You never provide a reasoning, besides blatant ideology.

I joined ASF to share ideas and to learn. I didn't joint to receive personal attacks which you seem to deal in quite a bit, at least when referrign to my posts.

 

[noco]

Please Rudney Rude, cut, cut, cut out the lies

The majority are awake up to you.

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/rudds_campaign_of_lies/

 

[Calliope]

How about you confine your posts to facts rather than character assessments?

Name me an instance where I have assessed someone's character...except politicians, or "stay quiet for a change".:shake:

Aren't you the guy who referred to Abbott as a "giant twat". Would you like me to give a "character assessment" of your role model, Peter Slipper?

FYI - I have equal displeasure with both sides of politics.

You are like a cracked record...all Abbott -Abbott -Abbott and Howard-Howard_Howard. Your displeasure with Rudd is just a slight tiff.

Your other serial "displeasures" are Turnbull and Telstra.

Apparently when someone disagrees with you it's a "personal attack". Grow up.

 

[drsmith]

So I really hope Abbott shows more restraint that the Howard Govt, but so far that's not looking likely. His 10 year "plan" will be hard to achieve because it will require a level of fiscal discipline that NO Govt has ever shown.

One difference is that the Howard government in its early years was much more fiscally prudent than Rudd/Gilard/Rudd Labor has been throughout its time in office.

I don't think you'll get much argument that the Howard government should have run larger fiscal surpluses in its latter years then it did. That history has been well and truly covered as has Labor's poor fiscal management record whilst in government. The Libs at least weren't running deficits year after year with no end in sight while in office.

As Calliope has pointed out, judgement on election day will be relative and with regard to the $AUD, it's still relatively high despite low interest rates.

 

[sydboy007]

Name me an instance where I have assessed someone's character...except politicians, or "stay quiet for a change".:shake:

I know you hate the conservatives, - I don't see the point of you saying that. If that's not talking about my character, then i stand corrected.

Aren't you the guy who referred to Abbott as a "giant twat". Would you like me to give a "character assessment" of your role model, Peter Slipper?

I don't think I've used that term. If you can show me the posting I'll stand corrected.

The only reason I've mentioned Peter Slipper, never defending him, was that he's possibly goign to jail for doing something that Abbott, and a fair chunk of Federal politicians, have done ie claimed personal travel to the tax payer. Would you have supported someone sneakily referring Tony's book signing travel expenses straight to the AFP in a similar way to Slipper? Would you have supported someone doing an Ashbury on Tony? Why didn't the coalition sort Slipper out years ago as it seems his activities were well known for at least a decade? Gillard showed poor judgment giving him the speaker roll, but the Coalition provided him his senate seat let him hold it while knowing what he was up to.

You are like a cracked record...all Abbott -Abbott -Abbott and Howard-Howard_Howard. Your displeasure with Rudd is just a slight tiff.

You're like a cracked record Rudd Rudd, Gillard Gillard.

Your other serial "displeasures" are Turnbull and Telstra.

I attack Turnbull and Telstra on technical issues. If you think I'm wrong then come out and say it. When I asked you for a specific policy of Abbotts that makes you want to vote for him you never provided one.

Apparently when someone disagrees with you it's a "personal attack". Grow up.

I think it is an attack of my character to say "I know you hate the conservatives," because i don't. I believe in the free market and see the role of Government to stop the market from destroying itself ala the GFC and what the finance industry got up to.

Once again I'l ask you to criticise what I say, and have the decency to provide some supporting evidence as to why you believe I'm wrong, but you never do. The only issue you seem to have with my postings is when I criticise the Coalition.

On this forum I do criticise the Coalition more than Labor, mainly because the majority here never really do, well beyond PPL but then you'd be doing an Abott defendign the indefensible.

Abbott is likely going to be PM in a couple of Sundays. Isn't it about time he started to deliver more than hot air and simple slogans?

 

[drsmith]

Slogans don't come much simpler than cut-cut-cut.

As for hot air, I have my stash of Liberal Party balloons to blow up on election day to celebrate the demise of Uncle Psycho's government.

Labor too I suspect will be celebrating if Uncle Psycho loses his own seat.

 

[sydboy007]

I don't think you'll get much argument that the Howard government should have run larger fiscal surpluses in its latter years then it did. That history has been well and truly covered as has Labor's poor fiscal management record whilst in government. The Libs at least weren't running deficits year after year with no end in sight while in office.

The point I'm trying to make is that by not running much larger surplusses Howard caused a blowout in private debt as big, if not bigger than what Labor has. His CGT changes have been a perpetual hit to revenue.

The other issue I have is when people talk about Labors debt, they don't take into account that the Federal Government HAD to take on some debt during the GFC. I'd say probablly a $100B hit to the budget was within order, because to keep it much below that would have caused a larger drop in revenue than we've seen.

I'm looking forward to seeing how Abbot and Hockey cope with managing an economy with a ToT in reverse to what they had a decade ago, where any cuts they make will cause a further fall in GDP growth. No more free lunches.

It's interesting the debt is bad rhetoric from Abbott has stopped now. No surplus till his second term. Will he be man enough to take ownership of any deficit in the 2014/15 or 2015/16 FY? Surely 21 months is more than long enough to get a budget surplus? Labors issues have been more of over spending, so does he have the cajones to make the cuts required to get things back in order? h emight surprise me, but his stance in opposition doesn't bring me much hope.

I REALLY hope to be proved wrong, but my projection is Abbott will be remembered as the GW Bush Jr of Australian PMs

 

[drsmith]

Surely 21 months is more than long enough to get a budget surplus?

It's not for Labor.

 

[Calliope]

I know you hate the conservatives, - I don't see the point of you saying that. If that's not talking about my character, then i stand corrected.
...I think it is an attack of my character to say "I know you hate the conservatives,"

It's really questioning your rationality or common sense rather than attacking your character. I think you are confusing character with acumen. I'm sure that apart from some political hang-ups you have a lovely character.

 

[Julia]

I think it is an attack of my character to say "I know you hate the conservatives," because i don't.

To be fair, you do give every impression of incessantly pointing out where you feel the Coalition has failed or is lacking. That's entirely reasonable, but - given that you almost never make any similar criticism of Labor - it doesn't seem unreasonable for anyone to see you as intensely disliking the conservative side of politics.

That's also fair enough, and I don't see any observation of this to necessarily represent an 'attack of your character". i.e. why should dislike of any side of politics represent a failing of character on the part of the person making that observation?

 

[drsmith]

Andrew Bolt has summarised today's 2PP polls,

Essential Media: Labor 50, Coalition 50

Newspoll: Labor 47, Coalition 53

Morgan: Labor 48.5, Coalition 51.5

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/polls_gap_narrows/

This too wouldn't be a surprise to me if true,

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/...r_supporters_lie_to_hijack_the_peoples_forum/

 

[sails]

Andrew Bolt has summarised today's 2PP polls,



http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/polls_gap_narrows/

This too wouldn't be a surprise to me if true,

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/...r_supporters_lie_to_hijack_the_peoples_forum/

It's on twitter. If true, it is hard to believe the dishonest tricks and lies used by the left:




https://twitter.com/captdudd/status/371772191626362880/photo/1