Home Truths on Boat Invasion from the North

[sptrawler]

All I said was they deserve to live and breath air just like you and me, they are human beings after all.

The problem is Bill, they come here with no processing, there is no wayof ascertaining their background.
One would think without background information as to their identity, it would be near on impossible to validate any skills they posses. That is unless an employer wants to vouch for their competence and take on the accountability.
This then leads to the next problem, they have difficulty getting employment and probably, unfortunately end up on welfare.
Which in turn places more strain on our welfare system, luckily we have old people that are prepared to do without, sad, just very sad.

 

[wayneL]

All I said was they deserve to live and breath air just like you and me, they are human beings after all.

So were the Mongol hordes, the Nazis, The Imperialist Japanese, the Huns and 101 other unwelcome visitors.

We all support the concept of a fair go, but we have the right to protect our culture, our society, our people and our way of life from undesirable people and influences. This means filtering out the type of people we don't want and restricting numbers to ensure assimilation rather than the cultural conflicts happening in other western countries.

 

[robusta]

How many do we get a year 7000?, 10000? Now picture that as a NRL or AFL crowd. Hardly a invasion, give me a break.

So were the Mongol hordes, the Nazis, The Imperialist Japanese, the Huns and 101 other unwelcome visitors.

We all support the concept of a fair go, but we have the right to protect our culture, our society, our people and our way of life from undesirable people and influences. This means filtering out the type of people we don't want and restricting numbers to ensure assimilation rather than the cultural conflicts happening in other western countries.

Wow just like the Nazi's you say.

This will be my last comment on this thread but I think the real question is, what are our politicians doing to us while we are distracted by this bull$%&@ issue?

 

[Julia]

Reading this thread actually makes me think I'm racist.

And $%# it - I probably am. Glad to be too.

It all seems fine and dandy when these people sail in on our taxpayer dollars, camp out at Villawood etc on more of our dollars, damage and destruct property that our dollars paid for, and basically act like selfish #$!%$#!# who don't get their own way when they are locked up. Yep - these sound like sane/reasonable people to be let in to this country. To add injury to insult we have to pay for courts so lefty lunatic lawyers can defend this people.

You know what the real kicker is - people say that 'Wogs' & Asians immigrated here - they sure did - and they worked really really hard - farming/small business etc etc - they worked.

They didn't come here - 9/10 sit on welfare - run riots in Sydney - basically act like thugs and try and implement their own 'religious law' on to an already well established country. If you tried to enter their borders I guarantee it would be a fast turnaround/horrible jail conditions until it's lights out for you.

Yep...I'm a racist

I don't think the issue is one of racism as much as resentment of people who are not 'playing by the rules', and (understandably, given the woeful policies of this government) think of Australia as a sure passport to a cushy life. Doesn't matter their skin colour or country of origin.

If you watched the section on "7.30" last night about the Sinhalese Sri Lankans, fishermen, filmed mostly in Sri Lanka, you'd have seen a group of uneducated, unskilled people with families the same, who find thousands of dollars to pay the people smugglers who promise them a job and accommodation, good medical care etc etc in Australia. These people are not refugees. They are not attempting to escape persecution. They are simply poor. As are hundreds of millions of people all over the world.

That doesn't mean we are obliged to have our taxpayers support them.

As has already been pointed out, the Greeks, Italians, Vietnamese came with skills and a strong work ethic, rather than being motivated by a life on the public purse.

 

[DocK]

As has already been pointed out, the Greeks, Italians, Vietnamese came with skills and a strong work ethic, rather than being motivated by a life on the public purse.

And I believe they came via the proper channels - ie welcomed by this country voluntarily. I'm torn on this issue and I genuinely believe most of the politicians who claim to be feeling great angst regarding our official policy are probably being truthful. I'll freely admit to being a fence sitter. If I put myself in the position of those concerned:

If I could pay a people smuggler and enter a country through the back door, but doing so would give my family a chance at a life of opportunity, safety and security rather than endless poverty and/or persecution with little or no chance of an improvement in our circumstances - I'd probably do it, esp for the sake of my children, but....

If I were languishing in a refugee camp in Africa, Thailand etc I would bitterly resent that my family was being kept in such dire straits due to those who could afford either monetarily or geographically to "jump the queue".

Once people have arrived at our borders, albeit by unsanctioned methods, it pains me to see children locked away and treated like criminals. I believe that the likelihood of these people suffering from a mental illness is greatly increased by their virtual incarceration whilst being "processed". Being denied the ability to work and be a productive member of their host country rather than an enforced drain on its taxpayers seems ridiculous, but....

I can see the sense in discouraging further people from circumventing the system and risking their lives on boats, by making the outcome appear as unattractive as possible. If they know they won't be able to get a job and send money home for the rest of their family to pay another smuggler, perhaps they won't take the risk themselves. The dilemma of knowing who is a genuine refugee or who is an undesirable criminal we definately wouldn't want in our society is a real one and some form of processing is absolutely necessary.

It's just a dreadful situation with no easy answer imo, and I'm sure there are many like me who can see that logically the harsher the treatment dished out should result in fewer and fewer boats, but who humanely struggle with the pain this type of treatment inflicts on fellow human beings, most of whom are simply trying to improve their miserable existence and could be valued members of our society if given the chance.

As a country we have the right to protect our borders and decide who we wish to "invite in", and in what number, but...

As human beings and citizens of the world is it right to turn our backs on those in need? What if we were in their place?

Too hard for me.

 

[McLovin]

What DocK said.

 

[explod]

Agree with most of what has been said today.

However, Lib or ALP, if they cannot stem the flow then what? Forget for a moment those that came in with our blessing.

The boat people if they arrive right or wrong are going to have to be dealt with.

We need to secure the north boundaries of this country and if it means locking some of them up in labour camps to produce food or some other benefit to us then maybe we will have to do that. Those that do prove to be legitimate then with them we may relax a bit and put them into positions of oversighting those that are not.

Pull off the blinkers and think about it.

 

[wayneL]

Wow just like the Nazi's you say.

You know it really 5#1ts me when people intentionally twist the argument.

Biologically, yes the Nazis were most certainly human, philosophical arguments aside. Robusta you know my point was not to equate refugees with Nazis, but to point out that membership of the human species does not confer entitlement to enter one or another country, as the global political landscape stands.

The concept of Nationhood puts a whole lot of constraints on who may or may not enter. Those constraints are presumably for the benefit of residents of that country and, as long as those constraints are constructed and administered fairly, we should not be ashamed of that.

This will be my last comment on this thread but I think the real question is, what are our politicians doing to us while we are distracted by this bull$%&@ issue?

Well... that is a whole 'nuther bowl of wax.

 

[explod]

You know it really 5#1ts me when people intentionally twist the argument.

Biologically, yes the Nazis were most certainly human, philosophical arguments aside. Robusta you know my point was not to equate refugees with Nazis, but to point out that membership of the human species does not confer entitlement to enter one or another country, as the global political landscape stands.

The concept of Nationhood puts a whole lot of constraints on who may or may not enter. Those constraints are presumably for the benefit of residents of that country and, as long as those constraints are constructed and administered fairly, we should not be ashamed of that.



Well... that is a whole 'nuther bowl of wax.

Agree, but how do we enforce if it is overwhelming. Remember we are in paradise and the outside world knows it.

Millions today are crossing borders to escape terror across the globe, the only barrier we have at this time is the sea.

You can say "hey stop turn around", but how do you enforce it. Would not exploiting the number build to create a shield at least be a way to protect this country down the track?

 

[Julia]

If I were languishing in a refugee camp in Africa, Thailand etc I would bitterly resent that my family was being kept in such dire straits due to those who could afford either monetarily or geographically to "jump the queue".

And that is only part of the picture. This week we have seen a chunk of the overseas aid budget being diverted to pay for accommodating the asylum seekers arriving by boat in the community. This deprives massively disadvantaged parts of Africa, e.g., of immensely useful agricultural assistance and other aid.

Further, unless you are happy to pay considerably more tax, there are only so many welfare dollars to go round.
So as money is absorbed in paying for accommodation and living expenses for boat arrivals, that is less to assist our own unemployed, homeless and disabled.

A few weeks ago there was an article in one of the papers of a family of asylum seekers from the Middle East, Muslims, who have thirteen children, at least some of whom have been born since they arrived in Australia. The family lives entirely on welfare. No one works.

Is it fair that, for example, Australians with some years to go before reaching retirement age, when they are retrenched purely due to the contracting economy, are forced to use up all their savings before being able to access the meagre unemployment benefit which is a payment below the poverty line, while the 'irregular maritime arrivals' have immediate access to taxpayer funded accommodation plus an income?

Or that disabled Australians are confined to bed because the funding does not exist for a wheelchair?

Or that aged Australians lie in poorly run nursing homes in their own waste because Aged Care is insufficiently funded?

Or that people with serious mental ill health cannot obtain access to treatment when they need it again because of insufficient funding?

Of course it's sad that in many parts of the world people are poor. But do you really believe we should be opening our borders to everyone wanting a better life at the expense of our own who are so in need?

I don't. But most of all my heart breaks for those who have been the victims of hideous assault and abuse, mostly in Africa, who have walked for weeks, carrying their children, to escape the violence, and who are continuing to spend apparently endless years in UNHCR camps while we admit those not at all suffering persecution but just looking for a taxpayer funded existence which they could never dream of in their home country.

 

[IFocus]

What DocK said.

+ 1...........

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

I'll freely admit to being a fence sitter. If I put myself in the position of those concerned:

If I could pay a people smuggler and enter a country through the back door, but doing so would give my family a chance at a life of opportunity, safety and security rather than endless poverty and/or persecution with little or no chance of an improvement in our circumstances - I'd probably do it, esp for the sake of my children, but....

If I were languishing in a refugee camp in Africa, Thailand etc I would bitterly resent that my family was being kept in such dire straits due to those who could afford either monetarily or geographically to "jump the queue".

Once people have arrived at our borders, albeit by unsanctioned methods, it pains me to see children locked away and treated like criminals.

I can see the sense in discouraging further people from circumventing the system and risking their lives on boats, by making the outcome appear as unattractive as possible. If they know they won't be able to get a job and send money home for the rest of their family to pay another smuggler, perhaps they won't take the risk themselves. The dilemma of knowing who is a genuine refugee or who is an undesirable criminal we definately wouldn't want in our society is a real one and some form of processing is absolutely necessary.

It's just a dreadful situation with no easy answer imo, and I'm sure there are many like me who can see that logically the harsher the treatment dished out should result in fewer and fewer boats, but who humanely struggle with the pain this type of treatment inflicts on fellow human beings, most of whom are simply trying to improve their miserable existence and could be valued members of our society if given the chance.

As a country we have the right to protect our borders and decide who we wish to "invite in", and in what number, but...

As human beings and citizens of the world is it right to turn our backs on those in need? What if we were in their place?

Too hard for me.

That is what we have governments for mate.

To make those hard decisions.

The present mob are lacking.

ALP cannot be trusted with Borders or Refugees from the North.

They are like you. All questions, no answers. ( no reflection on you, I have the same questions of myself as you.)

gg

 

[Julia]

That is what we have governments for mate.

To make those hard decisions.

The present mob are lacking.

+1.

 

[bunyip]

What an interesting proposition...to conscript all those Muslims into the armed forces. LOL

I’m sure our military would be most impressed at the demands for stop for prayers three times a day. I’m sure they’d be impressed when all the Muslim lads refused to eat the tucker because the meat wasn’t killed ‘halal’.
And so on and so on.

My take on all this is that we should only accept people who apply through the legal channels to come here. Anyone who comes uninvited should immediately be barred from ever gaining citizenship to this great country.
Make it so their efforts to come here have all been in vain, even if they manage to arrive. They want to come, they apply through the legal channels just like my Irish relatives who want to come here, can already speak the language, have the skills and education to fit in and pay their way from day one.
Same story with many other people from countries like Germany, Zimbabwe, South Africa who have the work skills, the language skills, a similar culture to us, the money to pay their own air fares, the ability to start contributing to our society immediately. And yet they’re being put on hold while the illegals flood in and are looked after by Aussie taxpayers.
A crazy situation.

Sure, the illegals are human beings, but so are the people who are trying to come here through the legal channels, so are the homeless people in our society, so are our intellectually disabled people, all of whom are woefully under-funded.

Look after our own people first, and forget this silly obsession to look after down and outers from around the world.
If you're a do-gooder who genuinely cares about people and wants to help the disadvantaged, there's pleny of scope for your talents and your caring nature right here among your fellow Australians.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

ALP Policy on Our Northern Borders.

Come one, come all.

Everyone welcome.

Just google Centrelink before you set off on a leaky boat.

gg

 

[drsmith]

ALP cannot be trusted with Borders or Refugees from the North.

The current version of Labor cannot be trusted with anything full bloody stop.

 

[sptrawler]

Hey doc,I had an interesting chat with a young Dutch backpacker, while watching the Nullabor glide by on the Indian Pacific.
She said Belgium is in such a bad state, they are talking of splitting it between France and Holland.
That would send alarm bells around the world.
I don't know how much fact it was based on. However it is obviously an issue for a young backpacker to be suggesting it in a general conversation.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

Hey doc,I had an interesting chat with a young Dutch backpacker, while watching the Nullabor glide by on the Indian Pacific.
She said Belgium is in such a bad state, they are talking of splitting it between France and Holland.
That would send alarm bells around the world.
I don't know how much fact it was based on. However it is obviously an issue for a young backpacker to be suggesting it in a general conversation.

This was a topic of great interest in the nunnery over northern summer.

Belgium will split.

It has a Flanders sector and a Walloon sector.

One mob speak French, the other Dutch

They dislike each other intensely.

One mob are industrious, the other are lazy bastards. Can't remember which.

Brussels is in the Flanders sector but mostly speak French. It is the capital of Ruddland, an entity where people with big ideas and small intellect get paid big moolah to talk, never come to a decision and impoverish their subjects.

gg

 

[bunyip]

COME ONE, COME ALL (by Bunyip)

Come one come all
You’re welcome here
To share our great south land
Howard kept you from our shores
But Kevin took a stand
"We cannot shun these folk” he said
“Who share the Aussie dream
We’ll throw our borders open wide
We’ll scrap the Howard scheme”

So Rudd and Swan and Gillard too
A trio starry-eyed
Aglow with altruistic zeal
They threw our borders wide
Come one come all
The message was
You’re welcome in our land
If you are down upon your luck
We’ll lend a helping hand
Bring your wives and kids along
Your aunts and uncles too
We’ll feed and clothe you, give you cash
A comfy house for you

And if you cannot speak our tongue
Or have no working skills
No problem – leave it all to us
We’ll shoulder all your bills

So come they did – a trickle first
That soon became a flood
A massive ALP mistake
Rudd’s policy a dud
And so at last with Kevin gone
And Julia in charge
She said with worried frown to Swan
“This problem’s rather large
We’re getting swamped by all these boats
Solutions are not easy
We should have stuck with Howard’s plan
Let’s talk to Albanese
He’s not the brightest lad, and yet
He might know what to do”
But Albo told them “Sorry guys
I’m clueless just like you
We just can’t seem to stop these boats
But maybe experts can
We should appoint a bunch of them
To formulate a plan”

The ‘experts’ drafted up a plan
Designed to stem the flood
Of boats upon our northern shores
Brought on by Rudd the dud
With strong support from Jules and Swan
And Albanese too
A useless bunch of dithering clowns
Who didn’t have a clue

The invasion keeps on coming
There isn’t any doubt
The boats keep pouring in
While our cash keeps pouring out
To feed and clothe and house them
To train them in new skills
And all the while they play us for
A bunch of bloody dills

There clearly is a lesson here
That’s plain for all to see
If you want decent government
Then don't vote ALP

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

COME ONE, COME ALL (by Bunyip)

Come one come all
You’re welcome here
To share our great south land
Howard kept you from our shores
But Kevin took a stand
"We cannot shun these folk” he said
“Who share the Aussie dream
We’ll throw our borders open wide
We’ll scrap the Howard scheme”

So Rudd and Swan and Gillard too
A trio starry-eyed
Aglow with altruistic zeal
They threw our borders wide
Come one come all
The message was
You’re welcome in our land
If you are down upon your luck
We’ll lend a helping hand
Bring your wives and kids along
Your aunts and uncles too
We’ll feed and clothe you, give you cash
A comfy house for you

And if you cannot speak our tongue
Or have no working skills
No problem – leave it all to us
We’ll shoulder all your bills

So come they did – a trickle first
That soon became a flood
A massive ALP mistake
Rudd’s policy a dud
And so at last with Kevin gone
And Julia in charge
She said with worried frown to Swan
“This problem’s rather large
We’re getting swamped by all these boats
Solutions are not easy
We should have stuck with Howard’s plan
Let’s talk to Albanese
He’s not the brightest lad, and yet
He might know what to do”
But Albo told them “Sorry guys
I’m clueless just like you
We just can’t seem to stop these boats
But maybe experts can
We should appoint a bunch of them
To formulate a plan”

The ‘experts’ drafted up a plan
Designed to stem the flood
Of boats upon our northern shores
Brought on by Rudd the dud
With strong support from Jules and Swan
And Albanese too
A useless bunch of dithering clowns
Who didn’t have a clue

The invasion keeps on coming
There isn’t any doubt
The boats keep pouring in
While our cash keeps pouring out
To feed and clothe and house them
To train them in new skills
And all the while they play us for
A bunch of bloody dills

There clearly is a lesson here
That’s plain for all to see
If you want decent government
Then don't vote ALP

Mate I dips me lid.

Long after this mob are consigned to footnotes starting with , whitlam, alp, khemlani, pink batts, slipper, awu, hsu, gillard, swan, rudd, this poem will be recited throughout Australia.

gg