The role of men in modern society

[Bushman]

There is a news article today that genuinely made me sit up with a start and wonder about men's role in modern society.

http://www.theage.com.au/travel/tra...arating-men-from-children-20120810-23y7q.html

I've attached the article, but as a brief it is a travel story about a Sydney fireman being asked to move seats when an air stewardess noticed that he was sitting next to two unaccompanied minors. Instead, he was swapped with a female passenger due to standing airline policy. Incredible that this man who by all accounts has led an exemplary life and has not been a threat to anyone should be humiliated in front of a packed airline for being, well, a man.

So the message from corporarte Australia is undoubtedly that as you are a man, then statistically you must be a threat to others?

This has made me think about what it means to be a man in today's society? Also if society is increasingly heading down the risk management path then what does it mean for the teaching profession, pediatrics, coaching and other such professions where men work with 'unaccompanied minors'.

Now I am a father and would be appalled if my kids were subjected to a situation where a man posing no threat to them was arbitrarily moved; the message here to the kids is that a man should be feared. Doesn't this then diminish all male role models in their eyes?

Ultimately we life in a modern society that favours homogeneity over overt displays of gender and also a litigious society that is fed stories about male stranger danger. No wonder males are confused ...

Then again, being a white anglo male, maybe it is karma that all this discrimination we have dished out over the millenium should now start to come back our way.

Interesting times ...

 

[Joules MM1]

There is a news article today ........
Interesting times ...

he estimated to be between 8 and 10 years old.

is it just me or do you find, that, that there is no mention of the effect on the two kids as the worst part of the story.......i mean, wot does it instill in them?....that this is normal?.....so they grow up with this twisted normality of how to treat one half of the human population, that is, this is exactly how they can expect to be treated when theyre adults.......a broad brush stroke protectionism for the sake of insurance and litigation .....**** me!

bear markets.......

 

[prawn_86]

Society is becoming increasingly androgynous with men becoming more feminine the further Western societies develop.

Most of males originals 'uses' such as strength, speed, hunting, being the sole provider etc are no longer required and hence the message is that we as men no longer need to display these characteristics for fear of political correctness and no real way to productively utilise these capabilities.

I believe some ASF members were even bemoaning the unfairness and competitivness of sports, which is one of the few platforms men have in which to compete physically against each other...

 

[Bushman]

is it just me or do you find, that, that there is no mention of the effect on the two kids as the worst part of the story.......i mean, wot does it instill in them?....that this is normal?............

Yeah that is the bit that really troubled me about this story . Kids learn from adult behaviour and in this instance they must be sitting there and going that this guy is a threat to us. Why else would they move him? If they are boys, do they then grow up thinking they are a threat?

Ultimately, what right does a Virgin (or any corporation) have to make a call like this?

 

[Julia]

I'm not sure that it's an anti-men attitude so much as an exaggerated response to the threat of paedophilia.

The incident described is awful for everyone concerned and silly.

If the airline has determined they will have such a policy then they should effect it when the seats are originally allocated. Not that hard to find a clearly female name to sit next to the children.

If it makes you blokes feel any better, we women are not immune from suspicion either. I participate in a mentoring program in the schools, usually primary level, and despite having a Blue Card, I was initially told never to be alone in a room with a child for my own protection. Also, never actually touch a child.

I get the bit about not being alone in a room with a kid, but if a child is in tears over something imo there's nothing as useful as a hug.

Institutions and organisations like airlines seem to take the view that prevention is the best protection. You can see their point, but we lose a lot of humanity in the process.

 

[Bushman]

I'm not sure that it's an anti-men attitude so much as an exaggerated response to the threat of paedophilia.

The incident described is awful for everyone concerned and silly.

If the airline has determined they will have such a policy then they should effect it when the seats are originally allocated. Not that hard to find a clearly female name to sit next to the children.

If it makes you blokes feel any better, we women are not immune from suspicion either. I participate in a mentoring program in the schools, usually primary level, and despite having a Blue Card, I was initially told never to be alone in a room with a child for my own protection. Also, never actually touch a child.

I get the bit about not being alone in a room with a kid, but if a child is in tears over something imo there's nothing as useful as a hug.

Institutions and organisations like airlines seem to take the view that prevention is the best protection. You can see their point, but we lose a lot of humanity in the process.

A case of the cure being worse than the disease

 

[DB008]

Spot on Bushman

British Airways compensates man for sexist child seating policy

British Airways has compensated a passenger who was “humiliated’ over its policy of not allowing single male flyers to sit next to solo child travellers on its planes.
British Airways cabin crew told Mirko Fischer to move after he swapped seats with his wife and ended up sitting next to a boy he did not know.
Mr Fischer, 33, accused staff of harassing him and said the policy contravened the Sex Discrimination Act.
BA apologised to the businessman but denied the policy was discriminatory.

Mirko Fischer said he worried what message was being sent to children

And

Surprising Habits Of The Female Pedophile

Back in 1984, a study done by Finkelhor & Russell estimated that about 5% of female children and 20% of male children exposed to sexual predation were abused by women. More recent research among victims suggests that the rate of female predation is alarmingly higher than we thought back then.

 

[numbercruncher]

Virgin should get sued over this issue - only way they learn and show remorse for such ridiculous behviour.

 

[Julia]

A case of the cure being worse than the disease

Yes, indeed.

Virgin should get sued over this issue - only way they learn and show remorse for such ridiculous behviour.

It's not confined to Virgin. ABC Radio this evening covered the story and had an interview with an airline journalist who said all airlines pursue the same policy. They just do it undetected, as I suggested earlier, thus covering themselves and not insulting any passengers.

That seems reasonable enough, I suppose, in today's ridiculously over-sensitive society, so hardly a case for taking action on the matter.

Just a hypothetical question for you, numbercruncher: What do you think should have happened had the airline not moved the adult passenger and he subsequently turned out to inappropriately touch the children?
Who would be held responsible?
Remember an airline takes responsibility for the safety of unaccompanied children as far as I know.

 

[IFocus]

The policy would likely have come from their insurance company trying to reduce a perceived exposure.

If it was my kids I actually would prefer a female sitting next to them.

 

[bellenuit]

In addition to whether the policy is fair or not, I was appalled at the insensitive way it was handled. When the stewardess asked a female passenger to take the place of the male passenger, she didn't say "Our policy is that men are not allowed to sit next to unaccompanied children", but instead said "HE is not allowed sit next to minors". I could imagine how embarrassing that must have been to him, with no explanation offered.

 

[Tink]

Yes, bellenuit, agree.
The way it was said and handled, no explanation given on policies, just, you cant sit next to that man.
As Julia said, it should have all been handled before boarding the plane, or at least an explanation given on their policies.
How long have minors been boarding planes unaccompanied (10 and 8 years old)?
All new policies that have had to be created?

 

[numbercruncher]

The policy would likely have come from their insurance company trying to reduce a perceived exposure.

If it was my kids I actually would prefer a female sitting next to them.

If it was my kids I would much rather the NSW firefighter who probably has a bluecard and definately has a thorough background check.

The woman could of been any old crack addict hey ?

And ask the 8 and 10 year old boys who theyd rather sit next to , a random woman or a NSW firefighter , I know what I would of chosen at the age of 10 .....

And ask the insurance company who they would rather have in that seat - Im sure they would say Virgin made the wrong discrimitory sexist choice.

And further more this need'nt of happened if Virgin had any logistical planning skills at all.

Moral of the story is if your a male, fly Qantas.

 

[tinhat]

A friend of mine picked up her unaccompanied minor off a Virgin flight at Sydney airport recently and he wasn't even being supervised in arrivals. There's a hot tip for paedophiles.

 

[Julia]

If it was my kids I would much rather the NSW firefighter who probably has a bluecard and definately has a thorough background check.

The woman could of been any old crack addict hey ?

And ask the 8 and 10 year old boys who theyd rather sit next to , a random woman or a NSW firefighter , I know what I would of chosen at the age of 10 .....

And ask the insurance company who they would rather have in that seat - Im sure they would say Virgin made the wrong discrimitory sexist choice.

And further more this need'nt of happened if Virgin had any logistical planning skills at all.

Moral of the story is if your a male, fly Qantas.

The policy exists across all airlines.

 

[Bushman]

yep i would much rather a firefighter sit next to my kids than say a women who is childless and has no experience with children. Also the message is so mixed. This guy would be a hero if he goes and saves a child from an inferno but when he steps on a plane he is a 'potential pedo'?

Also the thinking behind this is so flawed; I would suggest that statistically speaking there would no chance that a professional male who has never committed a sexual assualt against a minor would suddenly and opportunistically offend in an airplane.

It is so highly offensive and takes this 'all men are potential predators' myth to its extremes.

Ultimately we all bemoan the lack of community and human connection in our modern world. But how can you foster a sense of community when everyone demonstrates this irrational fear about 'strange' men.

Also what happens if the man was a male whose ethnicity was not 'anglo saxon' or if the man was homosexual? Would this then be seen as discriminatory?

Disgraceful ...

 

[DB008]

I think 18 is a respectable age to marry a girl, if you intend to do so at a young age.

5 is a bit young, as is 13

http://www.guardian.co.uk/journalismcompetition/girl-brides-in-yemen

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2001029/Child-brides-young-5-married-secret-middle-aged-men.html

 

[numbercruncher]

The policy exists across all airlines.

You sound rather sure about that ? but not much actual proof ?

While Virgin Australia was adamant that it was not alone in implementing such a policy, Qantas has not responded to repeated attempts to clarify its position from Fairfax Media today.

However, the BBC reported Qantas and Air New Zealand had a similar policy in 2005, after a businessman successfully sued British Airways on the grounds of sex discrimination after he was moved away from an unaccompanied child on a flight.*

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/travel/tra...think-again-20120810-23y7q.html#ixzz23DKzdcUc

 

[disarray]

Then again, being a white anglo male, maybe it is karma that all this discrimination we have dished out over the millenium should now start to come back our way.

this is rubbish and there is no way we should be wearing some communal guilt for our society or its history.

 

[Julia]

You sound rather sure about that ? but not much actual proof ?

Before I put you on Ignore again, I will repeat that this was clearly stated by a spokesperson for the airline industry on ABC Radio National on Friday evening.
If you want to check, you can look up the ABC website. It was on the "Drive" program.

And, before you start asking me for 'proof', perhaps consider that you need to have some basis for suggesting it's only Virgin that maintains this policy.

Too silly.