NBN Rollout Scrapped

[sptrawler]

You have got to be kidding Mt Magnet lol how do you kill something that has been dead for years.
You can't have been there to make a statement like that.

So your saying theres no NG retic in Kalgoorlie?

Mt Magnet population has been decimated by fifo, as for never been there I've lived there on and off for 18mths building a power station.

As to your second statement, I said Kambalda has no NG retic.
Also like I said we will probably waste money putting in N.B.N fibre optics to the households.

 

[sptrawler]

MT Magnet 2006 census population wait for it...........wait.......ready....456
Awesome example got any more lol.

I can't follow what you are getting at. I think we are wasting taxpayers money putting optical fibre to the home in these towns.
You seem to be agreeing with me.

 

[todster]

I can't follow what you are getting at. I think we are wasting taxpayers money putting optical fibre to the home in these towns.
You seem to be agreeing with me.

Ok can you recall Mt Magnet being decimated by FIFO?
It was your example...in 2006 it had a population of 456.

 

[todster]

Mt Magnet population has been decimated by fifo, as for never been there I've lived there on and off for 18mths building a power station.

As to your second statement, I said Kambalda has no NG retic.
Also like I said we will probably waste money putting in N.B.N fibre optics to the households.

Shire website has the current population at 750 lol.
Your just digging a deeper hole.

 

[moXJO]

Why? The NBN is funded from bonds, which will be repaid by network revenue (not taxation revenue).

Unless there is either a substantial cost blowout .

This is the only thing I think the NBN will fail on. I read some of the contracts a way back and some of the conditions were a little suss. High union control as well.

 

[sptrawler]

Shire website has the current population at 750 lol.
Your just digging a deeper hole.

Mt Magnet council minutes.

Council makes the following comments on FIFO workforce:
(A) Organisations using the FIFO options to towns that have appropriate infrastructure that has been provided in most cases using Federal State and Local Government funds, should be required to have a percentage of their staff reside in that area.
(B) The Federal Government could use its taxation powers to make the FIFO option less attractive for the employer.
(C) Many FIFO workers claim “A” or “B” zone tax rebates, but spend their monies and invest in the area that their families reside, not in Regional Australia, and therefore should not qualify for this concession.
(D) During the Census of Population, most FIFO workers record their residential address as where their family lives and therefore the region where they work is not recognised and as a result the regional or remote Council’s miss out on many/less grants for that Local Government. Many grants are based on population numbers.
(E) Council recognises that some FIFO is inevitable (specialised and short term contractors etc).
(F) An incentive that would provide some benefit to residents of remote areas is a large increase in Zone “A” and “B” tax rebates. Zone Tax rebates have not increased for many years and are not of the incentive value that they used to be when they were introduced. An increase in Zone Tax rebates to a realistic level is requested.


From W.A State Government report
Population
The Mid West’s population has increased steadily over the past 20 years and at June 2010 was estimated to be 55,584. The region's population makes up 9% of the states regional population and 2.4% of the total state population. Between 2005 and 2010 the region grew at an average rate of 1.7% per anum.

While the current population makes the Mid West the sixth largest of Western Australia’s nine regions, with the region's high projected population growth expected to make it the fourth largest by 2026. Major economic developments such as the numerous resource projects proposed for the Region have the capacity to boost these projections quite significantly. The region’s enviable lifestyle, proximity to the metropolitan area, strong supportive social infrastructure and relatively cheap housing are attracting even more interest from retirees and those looking for a sea-change. A number of growth scenarios have been calculated and depending on actual developments, the region's population could grow to between 80,000-90,000 by 2026.

Population within the region is unevenly dispersed. The City of Greater Geraldton's population is estimated to be 38,733 or more than 70% of the region's population. Between 2000 and 2006 coastal municipalities (Geraldton/Greenough, Chapman Valley and Irwin) have shown a strong growth, including 1.8% average annual average growth in the Shire of Chapman Valley to the north of the Geraldton/Greenough area. Many farming areas (Carnamah, Morawa, Mingenew and Coorow) have recorded decreases in population, largely as a result of farm amalgamation. The population of inland shires where mining is a dominant feature has tended to be variable depending on the level of economic activity. However, since the mid 1990's when fly-in/fly-out became established, population has tended to decline.

From State Government documents

 

[Smurf1976]

It is horrendously expensive to deliver cellular wireless data. The technology has such a short lifespan that equipment replacement is regular and expensive. Each wireless generation is superseded about every 5 years, meaning regular multi-billion dollar upgrades.

This cost still exists with the NBN since unless it is literally everywhere, having WiFi at home doesn't remove the need to be able to use the device where WiFi is not available.

10 years ago ISP's had trouble most evenings because people came home, dialed up (yes, dialed up) the ISP and used the internet. The point being that most usage was at home, and most of that was of an evening. People sat down to use the computer as a specific task.

Two or three years ago people still rushed to post updates once they got home after things like music festivals etc. But in 2012 they post the update not only before they get home, but while the band is still playing. You can find out what others are saying about a particular performance, only a few minutes after it has started and whilst you're standing outside.

I also out remember employers and their policies regarding staff internet usage. No share trading, gambling, streaming media etc even during official lunch breaks. These days such policies are completely pointless - walk into the lunch room and every employee under 30 is sitting there watching, updating or downloading something using their own device. They wouldn't want to use the company's desktop PC for such things even if there were no rules to prevent it.

So far as I can tell, the wireless era is already here perhaps not in terms of bulk data, but certainly in terms of the number of users, devices etc.

 

[NBNMyths]

For those interested, there is an NBN Q&A/info session tonight at 7pm via a webcast. They have been asking people to submit questions over the last couple of weeks.

Not sure if there is any limit to the number of users, but you have to register to watch it:

http://webcast.viostream.com/?viocast=5605&auth=4ebc7a4a-0e21-44c1-874d-fab3b890c277

 

[DB008]

Conroy = Visionary....

Australia's official digital 'visionary': Conroy

Australia now has its own official visionary.
Senator Stephen Conroy, Minister for Broadband, Communications and the Digital Economy, has collected his Visionary of the Year award from the New York-based Intelligent Community Forum for his work establishing the national broadband network (NBN).
Senator Conroy was in New York city last week to receive the accolade, using the opportunity to level scathing attacks at Telstra which he identified as a major initial obstacle in the project's implementation.
Advertisement: Story continues below
"The challenge for our government was at the time how do we deal with our incumbent Telstra [...] I gave them two options - they could agree to a prospective structural separation over 10 years [...] if they didn't agree they would be banned from buying new mobile spectrum of 4G services. Telstra's management chose to agree to the NBN."

Link

 

[sptrawler]

Funny thing is, it depends which side of the fence you are on.
One side call him a visionary, the other side call him a blackmailer and extortionist.

 

[Logique]

Good of the govt to use our tax dollars to advertise the NBN -that a lot of us won't even get access to, and plenty won't be able to afford.

Looking at the ads, apparently everyone in the bush is a self employed web designer, commodities trader or white collar professional. Presumably this is how bush folks can afford to pay the NBN rates.

 

[NBNMyths]

Good of the govt to use our tax dollars to advertise the NBN -that a lot of us won't even get access to, and plenty won't be able to afford.

Looking at the ads, apparently everyone in the bush is a self employed web designer, commodities trader or white collar professional. Presumably this is how bush folks can afford to pay the NBN rates.

100% of Australians will have access to the NBN, via either optical fibre (93%), 4G-LTE wireless (4%) or satellite (3%).

The NBN is no more expensive than ADSL+phone. At the entry level, it's actually much cheaper. Exetel for example have a 12/1Mbps NBN service with 50GB of data and a phone for $35/month total. Up the speed to 25/5Mbps for an extra $5. Perhaps you'd like to link to a cheaper option on the copper network?

What's more, NBN pricing is the same nationwide, whether you live on a cattle station in Anna Creek or an apartment on George St Sydney.

 

[Calliope]

100% of Australians will have access to the NBN, via either optical fibre (93%), 4G-LTE wireless (4%) or satellite (3%).

What's more, NBN pricing is the same nationwide, whether you live on a cattle station in Anna Creek or an apartment on George St Sydney.

That's no way to run a business. It is not surprising that the taxpayers won't get their money back before 20 to 30 years. It reminds me of German war reparations after WW1.

Quigley, the NBN Co Supremo said the government business enterprise was planning to repay the Government’s equity contribution to the project — expected to run into the several tens of billions of dollars — within a 20 to 30-year time period.

 

[NBNMyths]

That's no way to run a business. It is not surprising that the taxpayers won't get their money back before 20 to 30 years. It reminds me of German war reparations after WW1.

Quigley, the NBN Co Supremo said the government business enterprise was planning to repay the Government’s equity contribution to the project ”” expected to run into the several tens of billions of dollars ”” within a 20 to 30-year time period.

Maybe you missed the entire point of the NBN then?

They aren't building it to make a profit. They are building it to provide ubiquity and break even.

How long do you think it took to recoup the investment in the rollout of power, water, sewer, gas and telephone networks?

 

[Calliope]

How long do you think it took to recoup the investment in the rollout of power, water, sewer, gas and telephone networks?

Yeah, but there were no better alternatives. Bad analogy.

 

[NBNMyths]

Yeah, but there were no better alternatives. Bad analogy.

What's the better alternative? Make sure you include some supporting refs.

 

[Julia]

What's more, NBN pricing is the same nationwide, whether you live on a cattle station in Anna Creek or an apartment on George St Sydney.

How is that reasonable? Means people in cities are subsidising the others doesn't it? Or perhaps I'm misunderstanding how it works.

Article in the Weekend Australian, with specific reference to cost for students, but obviously relevant to other people on low incomes, extract:

Under the copper network students can access the internet from as little as $20 a month but under the NBN internet service providers face a $24 a month access fee even before retail packages are offered to consumers.

Under the new system an entry level broadband user will face fees of about $60 a month, effectively tripling costs, while mid level plans hover about $90 and high level packages at $110.

I'm presently paying just $39.95 for a service which is entirely adequate for my purposes and resent any suggestion that this will become much more expensive for something I neither want nor need.

Comments, NBN Myths?

 

[Calliope]

What's the better alternative? Make sure you include some supporting refs.

OK, make it other alternatives if you like. However any private enterprise broadband system would be more taxpayer-friendly.

 

[NBNMyths]

How is that reasonable? Means people in cities are subsidising the others doesn't it? Or perhaps I'm misunderstanding how it works.

Article in the Weekend Australian, with specific reference to cost for students, but obviously relevant to other people on low incomes, extract:


I'm presently paying just $39.95 for a service which is entirely adequate for my purposes and resent any suggestion that this will become much more expensive for something I neither want nor need.

Comments, NBN Myths?

Yes, that's the way it works. A cross-subsidy in essentially the same way as other services (eg: Phone, mail, healthcare and to a certain extent water, power and gas).

The Australian isn't exactly known for their accurate NBN reporting.

You cannot currently get internet for $20 a month because (almost everywhere) you first need to have a phone with line rental before you can buy the internet connection. So you must add line rental at ~$30 a month to the $20 for internet, for a total of $50 a month.

Under the NBN there is no line rental charge. So the $35 plan from Exetel (which I mentioned above) is all you pay for phone and broadband combined. Also, the phone calls on that $35 plan are 10c each, un-timed to any fixed line in Australia. This is less than half the cost of a local call on the copper network, let alone STD calls.

 

[Knobby22]

How is that reasonable? Means people in cities are subsidising the others doesn't it? Or perhaps I'm misunderstanding how it works.

?

Yes, but that is how we work in Australia. The country gets a good deal and I think that is good. They already suffer in heathcare and petrol (though they are subsidised in both). I can't see what is wrong with that.