Importing Migrant Workers

[Muschu]

More like the party for rational economic governance. Of course I don't expect all the old people here to understand that.

Is it fair to ask how old is old and how old you are? I gather you claim life experience but that may also warrant definition.

 

[Starcraftmazter]

Well you cant seem to be able to organise a move overseas where you might be happier for a start. I can tell you life holds challenges way beyond that.

You've no idea where life will lead you, you can plan but nothing's guaranteed.

Organising a move is simple. Starting life anew is not. And I do love to plan.

 

[jank]

You must have no life experience if you think moving from country to country is that easy.

LOL, it has gotten alot easier thanks to Rina.

Anyway, to the point it is not that hard, if I can do it. Then again it might be rude wake up call for you.

 

[Starcraftmazter]

Is it fair to ask how old is old and how old you are? I gather you claim life experience but that may also warrant definition.

I'm 22, old is old enough to care about old people.

LOL, it has gotten alot easier thanks to Rina.

Haha, indeed!! Fancy that, being paid to go to work in another country for much more money than you can earn at home.

 

[jank]

Oh **** you've got me. Although now that I think about it, maybe it has something to do with....language, family, friends, employment, connections and transporting my crap around the planet

But Australia is rubbish so just go!!!

Pretty much all old people have property they can sell and put themselves in a home. Even better if they retire in some cheap country so as to not strain Australia's failing healthcare system. They should think of their children (and grandchildren).

OK, so they should move to another country and be a strain on another countries health care system? Yet before you are complaining about immigrants being a strain on the health care system, now OAP's are a strain even though most would have worked all their lives paying taxes to fund said health care system. My should just kill themselves and not be a strain on limited resources? Or maybe the state can implement such a policy. It makes economic sense right?

 

[jank]

Organising a move is simple. Starting life anew is not. And I do love to plan.

Have you ever worked abroad for any period of time? Hell have you ever been abroad apart maybe from a boozed up trip to Bali.
Your 22 so tbh you don't have a clue, I didn't at 22. When you are 32 you will have a totally different outlook on life, when the big bad world hits.

Take my advice, read some books and travel, then form your opinion. Your like a jack in the box willing to give it a guff but failing to understand what exactly you are saying. Thinking is under-rated these days especially by the younger generation. Just sitting there thinking about life or a problem isn't done anymore, for some reason talking $hit holds more value and is deemed to be a sign of knowing something. Maybe its to do with the internet and the short attention span of the youth. Your 22, feck you haven't even seen a proper recession.

 

[Starcraftmazter]

OK, so they should move to another country and be a strain on another countries health care system?

Why in the name of God would I or anyone in Australia care about any other country's healthcare system?

Yet before you are complaining about immigrants being a strain on the health care system, now OAP's are a strain even though most would have worked all their lives paying taxes to fund said health care system.

Right, so maybe old Australians should immigrate to take the strain off our healthcare system? Makes perfect sense. Did I tell you how all Sydney clinics are stuffed full of old people? If you don't want to wait a week for an appointment, forget about bulk-billing. I also don't see the relevance of having payed taxes in the past and getting services into the future in return. Last time I checked, government spends it's revenue into healthcare (and all other services) year to year - they don't set it aside.

Which is yet another reason why income tax should be abolished and replaced with a full user-pays system.

My should just kill themselves and not be a strain on limited resources? Or maybe the state can implement such a policy. It makes economic sense right?

I for one am a proud supporter of euthanasia. It's amazing that people who don't want to live in this world anymore are arbitrarily not allowed to end their own life.

I would support any retired person who has the money to fund their life and healthcare and does not rely on stealing it from others, looks after their grandchildren to allow their children to live more productive lives, and provides other benefits to society - however those who do not do anything productive within the economy and are a bottomless pit for taxpayer money....I take a real issue with them - they are a net drain on the economy with no further purpose.

Everyone should be ranked based on their present contribution to the economy - and if there is any taxation, then those with the greatest benefit to the economy should get most of the services.

 

[jank]

Why in the name of God would I or anyone in Australia care about any other country's healthcare system?

You are missing the point, you are complaining and advocating the exact same thing. Once people are not a strain on the tax base you don't care where they end up, thailand or six feet under.

Right, so maybe old Australians should immigrate to take the strain off our healthcare system? Makes perfect sense. Did I tell you how all Sydney clinics are stuffed full of old people? If you don't want to wait a week for an appointment, forget about bulk-billing. I also don't see the relevance of having payed taxes in the past and getting services into the future in return. Last time I checked, government spends it's revenue into healthcare (and all other services) year to year - they don't set it aside.

Which is yet another reason why income tax should be abolished and replaced with a full user-pays system.

Maybe you should put your hand in your pocket and get private health insurance or are you too cheap? Expecting everyone else to pay for your needs but telling every else to sod off somewhere else. Your a libertarian right, so go fund your own health care and get insurance.

I for one am a proud supporter of euthanasia. It's amazing that people who don't want to live in this world anymore are arbitrarily not allowed to end their own life.

I would support any retired person who has the money to fund their life and healthcare and does not rely on stealing it from others, looks after their grandchildren to allow their children to live more productive lives, and provides other benefits to society - however those who do not do anything productive within the economy and are a bottomless pit for taxpayer money....I take a real issue with them - they are a net drain on the economy with no further purpose.

So? What would you do about it?

Everyone should be ranked based on their present contribution to the economy - and if there is any taxation, then those with the greatest benefit to the economy should get most of the services.

What if someone who contributes tens thousands of dollars to the tax base loses their job. As they are no longer contributing, they get nothing right? So by your logic, Gina should get 10,0000x time the services as the average worker, right?

 

[Starcraftmazter]

You are missing the point, you are complaining and advocating the exact same thing. Once people are not a strain on the tax base you don't care where they end up, thailand or six feet under.

Yes, but I don't live in Thailand - so why should I care? If Thailand has a problem with Australian immigrants, they can always change their laws. I just don't see how it relates to me as an Australian.

Maybe you should put your hand in your pocket and get private health insurance or are you too cheap? Expecting everyone else to pay for your needs but telling every else to sod off somewhere else. Your a libertarian right, so go fund your own health care and get insurance.

What exactly makes you think I don't already have private healthcare? Either way, I do not use healthcare services, because I am not an old sickly person. I don't even get sick thanks to a lifestyle of healthy eating and exercise. Maybe I should get some of my tax back? And what did you mean everyone else paying for my needs? I'm a taxpayer myself, and as I just mentioned, I use a disproportionately small (in fact non-existent) amount of healthcare resources. Hmmm, I do wonder who uses disproportionately more than anyone else? Do you care to guess?

So? What would you do about it?

Remove all welfare and healthcare.

What if someone who contributes tens thousands of dollars to the tax base loses their job. As they are no longer contributing, they get nothing right? So by your logic, Gina should get 10,0000x time the services as the average worker, right?

Yes, they should get nothing. If they had a job, they must have savings to draw upon.

Gina provides a net deficit to the economy, because she imports workers who put strain on our 3rd world infrastructure and healthcare systems, while providing nothing in return. I would love to export her worthless fat **** to Thailand - or preferably North Korea. I'm sure there's lots of mining there to do for her.

 

[jank]

Yes, but I don't live in Thailand - so why should I care? If Thailand has a problem with Australian immigrants, they can always change their laws. I just don't see how it relates to me as an Australian.

The point is lost on you. Anyway, it would not make sense for millions of OAP to move to another country much as you would like them to.

What exactly makes you think I don't already have private healthcare? Either way, I do not use healthcare services, because I am not an old sickly person. I don't even get sick thanks to a lifestyle of healthy eating and exercise. Maybe I should get some of my tax back? And what did you mean everyone else paying for my needs? I'm a taxpayer myself, and as I just mentioned, I use a disproportionately small (in fact non-existent) amount of healthcare resources. Hmmm, I do wonder who uses disproportionately more than anyone else? Do you care to guess?

Well you obviously have experience waiting in a clinic full of oap's when you are bulk billing, go to a private clinic and you will be seen there and then no problem.
Yes, you pay into it now, you get it back when you are old and/or sick. I too believe in a small welfare state but you are going off the cliff with your ideas.

Remove all welfare and healthcare.

So you must like Ayrn Rand then. Fair enough.

Yes, they should get nothing. If they had a job, they must have savings to draw upon.

OK, therefore nobody would pay tax or indeed nobody should pay tax.

Gina provides a net deficit to the economy, because she imports workers who put strain on our 3rd world infrastructure and healthcare systems, while providing nothing in return. I would love to export her worthless fat **** to Thailand - or preferably North Korea. I'm sure there's lots of mining there to do for her.

LOL, this takes the biscuit. I thought you were getting somewhere now but you revert to type. She has probably paid billions in tax over her lifetime and would be a easily a net contributor to the tax base. These migrants are still paying tax so the exchequer wont lose out at all. Just because you have a bee in your bonnet about it doesn't change those facts. The richest in society are the ones the shoulder the tax burden. Always has been.

By the way i love you way you spin out of an arguement, Gina is Australias richest person and by your very own admission she should get the most back in terms of services from the state yet you cant even admit it!!! Funny stuff!

You are a funny guy, you hate the government, hate welfare, hate old people, hate migrants, hate rich people and poor people. You are just a hater and a spoofer.

 

[Starcraftmazter]

The point is lost on you. Anyway, it would not make sense for millions of OAP to move to another country much as you would like them to.

I don't really care what they do, so long as they don't get my tax money.

Well you obviously have experience waiting in a clinic full of oap's when you are bulk billing, go to a private clinic and you will be seen there and then no problem.

I didn't wait, I walked in, saw the situation, and walked out.

Yes, you pay into it now, you get it back when you are old and/or sick. I too believe in a small welfare state but you are going off the cliff with your ideas.

That's completely stupid. I didn't ask the government for any assistance when I get old - so why should I pay for old people now? I know for a fact there will be ZERO assistance for the aged by the time I retire, because no amount of taxes in the world would be able to pay for it long before I am at retirement age.

So you must like Ayrn Rand then. Fair enough.

I don't know nor care who that is.

K, therefore nobody would pay tax or indeed nobody should pay tax.

Correct.

LOL, this takes the biscuit. I thought you were getting somewhere now but you revert to type. She has probably paid billions in tax over her lifetime

You are speculating. I don't much like speculators. Either give me concrete figures, or nothing at all.

and would be a easily a net contributor to the tax base.

But a net debtor to the economy.

These migrants are still paying tax so the exchequer wont lose out at all.

The tax would still be paid had she used local workers - and more tax would be paid, because she'd have to pay a fair wage. On top of that, existing government services would not need to be strained by unnecessary people within the country.

Just because you have a bee in your bonnet about it doesn't change those facts. The richest in society are the ones the shoulder the tax burden. Always has been.

First of all; no - Singapore, Switzerland. Second of all, what does shouldering the tax burden have to do with importing foreign workers? Probably the fact that it will result in less tax collections against more government services.

By the way i love you way you spin out of an arguement, Gina is Australias richest person and by your very own admission she should get the most back in terms of services from the state yet you cant even admit it!!! Funny stuff!

How? I never said the services must relate to wealth - but to the amount of tax payed. Convenient of you to ignore that.

And government services do not include importing foreign workers by the way. Maybe they should buy her a treadmill or something? I'm all up for that.

You are a funny guy, you hate the government, hate welfare, hate old people, hate migrants, hate rich people and poor people. You are just a hater and a spoofer.

I don't hate any of the demographics nor institutions you mentioned. I only hate those who take and don't give.

If there was no welfare and public healthcare, no wars, no government intervention in the markets - then I would love the Australian government, and have no problem with any immigrant, old person or whoever else presently leeches off my hard work and that of others.

 

[noco]

I think SCM is one of Bob Brown's advanced ALIEN crew ready to change the world and how we live.
More likely he is now living in LA,LA LAND.
Get ready folks for SCM to become World Vice Presdent of the new World Government.
Dream on young man. You have a lot of living to do and a lot of lessons to learn.
You are 22 and I am 82.
I was in uniform when you were in liquid form.

 

[joea]

It is interesting to note some of the comments throughout this forum.
Actually I am interested in some of the comments from SCG, because of his age and the thinking of that age group.
Also some of his comments are possible, or could I say justly probably in the future.

No doubt he has internal strength as well, as he is certainly dishing out as good as he gets.
Sometimes post are written in haste or anger. Maybe some of us could count to ten before getting fired up.

So with migrants I foresee a lot of discussions by government and companies to see how the importing of these workers fit in with our society.
What amuses me, is that there are many workers here on that exact visa already, and not a peep from anybody about it.

I personally see the unions bosses are just "sooking" about the exercise because of possible loss of union members. Also the unions are attempting to get a toe hold in the mining sector. It appears they have put
Gillard in her place, and in the same time exposed the engine room of the Gillard government.
Just watch the unions pursue the safety aspect of integrating workers. Especially if they cannot understand English. I have not seen many media exploits by union officials that have not mentioned safety.

Anyway I will sign off, check the market and watch the rain come down againnnnn!
cheers joea

 

[jank]

I didn't wait, I walked in, saw the situation, and walked out.

Why didn't you go to a private clinic if you had health insurance? Unless you wanted an excuse to get angry.

That's completely stupid. I didn't ask the government for any assistance when I get old - so why should I pay for old people now? I know for a fact there will be ZERO assistance for the aged by the time I retire, because no amount of taxes in the world would be able to pay for it long before I am at retirement age.

You mean you won't. Learn to talk in the proper tense. Maybe those old people have built up a lifetime of credit with the government in the form of taxes. Instead of giving out in an internet forum go do something about it, Join a political party. Your views would go down very well in China. By the way the Swiss have very generous state pensions, so that's another country off your list. We have to live in the real world mate.

I don't know nor care who that is.

Nah, she is only probably the most influential author of libertarian thought and philosophy of the 20th century. She is also the founder of Objectivism The two of you would see eye to eye on a lot of things. Her book Atlas Shrugged is allegedly the 2nd most influential book in the United States Senate and Congress only behind the Bible, but sure it speaks volumes that a little kid like your self, instead of thinking about libertarian issues and the actual meaning behind this theory just spouts nonsense like a troll. Actually don't bother reading her stuff, it is clear your undeveloped mind could not possible comprehend what she writes abouts.

Your not a libertarian, your just a kid who doesn't like to pay taxes (welcome to life) and hates all people because they are leeches. Have you seen "There will be blood"? You remind me of the main character Daniel Plainview played by Daniel Day-Lewis. A person who just hates people. Very apt I think!

Correct.

Who will pay immigration officers? Police? Schools? Army? Roads? Transport?
Who will pay for the courts or rule of law? Do you want anarchy?

You are speculating. I don't much like speculators. Either give me concrete figures, or nothing at all.

No, you are speculating nonsense and I have disproved such nonsense before. Disprove me that she doesn't pay a large amount in tax.

But a net debtor to the economy.

Everybody therefore is a net debtor to the economy. Maybe we should all migrate and leave Australia to the birds and the trees. You are fecking crazy or a great troll.

The tax would still be paid had she used local workers - and more tax would be paid, because she'd have to pay a fair wage. On top of that, existing government services would not need to be strained by unnecessary people within the country.

I thought you were against tax, but now you want more tax, which is it!!
You do realise that one of the two most powerful things an economy can have to make itself stronger is a big movement of labour? Its one of the things that keeps Australia ticking over. Without it you would still be talking about the sheeps back bemoaning that Australia is missing out on the global economy. Look at NZ's economy, it cant keep up because of low inward migration and high emigration.

First of all; no - Singapore, Switzerland. Second of all, what does shouldering the tax burden have to do with importing foreign workers? Probably the fact that it will result in less tax collections against more government services.

LOL, a so called libertarian advocating Singapores system. They do have a very good standard of living and economic freedom in fairness. Tax's are generally low but it is a very autocratic system of government. Little press freedom, no political freedom, very little individual freedom, lots of things are banned. If you want to have a protest against the government you must get a permit which is almost always not given. Many things that are totally against the principles of libertarianism. You clearly do not think out anything you right. You see "low tax", or "isolationism" and think like a hormone crazed maniac, "yea, ill have some of that" without looking at the big picture
Have you even vistited the place, bet you havent, bet you still live with mama and papa. I know lots of people that live there, many only stay 2-3 years and leave again. It is not that great a place to live long term. Been there myself countless times. Dull is not an understatement

How? I never said the services must relate to wealth - but to the amount of tax payed. Convenient of you to ignore that.

No, because she would have paid many more times taxes then the average person. Are you disputing this?

And government services do not include importing foreign workers by the way. Maybe they should buy her a treadmill or something? I'm all up for that.

Personal remarks are just a sign of your immaturity and your childishness. People in life will take you a lot more seriously if you cut it out.

I don't hate any of the demographics nor institutions you mentioned. I only hate those who take and don't give.

I'm an immigrant who has paid taxes day one, yet I should be entitled to nothing, right?
A dog chasing his tail.

If there was no welfare and public healthcare, no wars, no government intervention in the markets - then I would love the Australian government, and have no problem with any immigrant, old person or whoever else presently leeches off my hard work and that of others.

What hard work? Your a ****ing trader! That isn't hard! There are thousands of other jobs that are harder then yours. You don't contribute anything other then some messily tax dollars to the economy. You sit in from of the computer and trade numbers hoping its goes up and down. You dont create jobs, you dont have a family, you have no one to look after. When you do, you will have a different outlook.
Probably good that you sit in your room all day as I don't think you would survive in an office environment. There are people out there you know!

 

[Trembling Hand]

What hard work? Your a ****ing trader!
..
You sit in from of the computer and trade numbers hoping its goes up and down.

No Jank you have that wrong.

He's a want-to-be trader.

 

[tigerboi]

back to the thread......

its all about wages you only have to listen to rineharts own words on the

corporate video...

"high cost base structure"

thats boss code for we want to pay 3rd world wages...

the greed of this woman is untold.

 

[Klogg]

back to the thread......

its all about wages you only have to listen to rineharts own words on the

corporate video...

"high cost base structure"

thats boss code for we want to pay 3rd world wages...

the greed of this woman is untold.

No, it's boss code for we don't want to pay $250k a year to get the qualified people here, because the majority of people on the eastern side of the country are too lazy to re-locate.

As far as I'm concerned, she's just trying to get a job done for the lowest amount possible. It's not her concern, nor her responsibility, to care for the rest of the country.

So long as she pays her taxes and works within government guidelines, then she's doing her part.

 

[Starcraftmazter]

Why didn't you go to a private clinic if you had health insurance? Unless you wanted an excuse to get angry.

When I last went to a clinic (quite a while ago), I didn't yet have private insurance. Also the fact that private clinics are very scare, and I fail to see why I have to travel to go to a clinic.

You mean you won't. Learn to talk in the proper tense.

Right now, when I am paying taxes, I am not asking the federal government to give me any services, nor will I ask in the future. Makes sense?

Maybe those old people have built up a lifetime of credit with the government in the form of taxes.

What exactly do you mean a lifetime of credit? Their tax money was SPENT it was SPENT ALREADY, the government DOES NOT PUT ASIDE TAX REVENUES FOR FUTURE SPENDING ON WELFARE. What is so hard about this to understand?

Instead of giving out in an internet forum go do something about it, Join a political party. Your views would go down very well in China. By the way the Swiss have very generous state pensions, so that's another country off your list. We have to live in the real world mate.

But they have lower taxes as well. Political parties never change anything, all Australian mainstream parties are absolute rubbish. Nothing but a bunch of corrupt puppets.

Nah, she is only

I repeat, I do not know nor care who she is.

Your not a libertarian

I didn't ask for your flawed and entitled opinions about my ideology.

your just a kid who doesn't like to pay taxes (welcome to life) and hates all people because they are leeches. Have you seen "There will be blood"? You remind me of the main character Daniel Plainview played by Daniel Day-Lewis. A person who just hates people. Very apt I think!

The lowest form of argument, you should be ashamed of yourself.

Who will pay immigration officers? Police? Schools? Army? Roads? Transport?
Who will pay for the courts or rule of law? Do you want anarchy?

You seem completely oblivious to the existence of state and local governments.

No, you are speculating nonsense and I have disproved such nonsense before. Disprove me that she doesn't pay a large amount in tax.

Wtf, YOU made the claim, so YOU prove it.

Everybody therefore is a net debtor to the economy. Maybe we should all migrate and leave Australia to the birds and the trees. You are fecking crazy or a great troll.

Is everyone Gina? No.

I thought you were against tax, but now you want more tax, which is it!!

If you read my previous posts carefully, I clearly said IF there is any tax, THEN it should be used to provide services for people whom pay it most - not those who do not pay tax. Why do I have to remind you of the discussion? If you are incapable of remembering what is happening in a debate, then don't bother.

You do realise that one of the two most powerful things an economy can have to make itself stronger is a big movement of labour? Its one of the things that keeps Australia ticking over. Without it you would still be talking about the sheeps back bemoaning that Australia is missing out on the global economy. Look at NZ's economy, it cant keep up because of low inward migration and high emigration.

NZ had a housing bubble burst, as we get ours, our economy will tank as well.

LOL, a so called libertarian advocating Singapores system.

I'm not advocating anything, I'm citing them as an example of low taxed countries who are rich - to disprove your idiotic argument that only high-taxing countries can be rich. Stop putting words into my mouth to support your stupid, worthless arguments.

No, because she would have paid many more times taxes then the average person. Are you disputing this?

I am not disputing it, and I'm not agreeing with it. Until you show me her tax return, as far as I am concerned, she's paid no tax.

Personal remarks are just a sign of your immaturity and your childishness.

By that logic, you must be the most immature and childish person here. Just read your own damn post you hypocrite.

I'm an immigrant who has paid taxes day one, yet I should be entitled to nothing, right?

Correct. Nobody is entitled to anything.

What hard work? Your a ****ing trader!

Actually I'm an engineer, I trade for fun.

 

[Starcraftmazter]

No, it's boss code for we don't want to pay $250k a year to get the qualified people here, because the majority of people on the eastern side of the country are too lazy to re-locate.

As far as I'm concerned, she's just trying to get a job done for the lowest amount possible. It's not her concern, nor her responsibility, to care for the rest of the country.

So long as she pays her taxes and works within government guidelines, then she's doing her part.

How can you prove they are too lazy to re-locate? People across the eastern states are now losing their job because of this damn housing bubble caused so much oversupply, there is massive slack in the construction industries. These workers will not be able to just find another job - and I contend that they will have no choice but to move to the mining areas to put up construction work there.

Why not let this natural process play out, why hire foreign labour? This is just madness

 

[numbercruncher]

No, it's boss code for we don't want to pay $250k a year to get the qualified people here, because the majority of people on the eastern side of the country are too lazy to re-locate.

As far as I'm concerned, she's just trying to get a job done for the lowest amount possible. It's not her concern, nor her responsibility, to care for the rest of the country.

So long as she pays her taxes and works within government guidelines, then she's doing her part.

Well thats exactly it - 457 isnt about getting the job done as cheaply as possible ! thats exactly what its not spost to do - its a rort and you obviously agree by saying shes doing it to get the job done as cheap as possible when its spost to be filling jobs that ongoing targetted recruitment cant fill ....