NBN Rollout Scrapped

[Calliope]

As demonstrated in every survey ever conducted about the NBN, most Australians do want it.

The NBN myth propagators keep rabbiting on that most Australians want it. As anyone the question whether the want a product delivered to their door faster, and of course they will say yes. Unless of course they happen to be voters with a little more savvy.

From the Myth spreaders survey:

There is overwhelming majority support from Labor and Greens voters but Liberal/National voters were split 36% favour and 49% oppose.

Incidentally the survey you linked to was conducted by by EMC, whose proud boast is;

We know our approach works because when organisations work with EMC they win:

With the ACTU we drove the Howard Government out of power with the Your Rights at Work campaign
With the AEU we secured billions of dollars in federal funding

http://www.essentialmedia.com.au/what-we-do/

Your affiliations are becoming much clearer now.

 

[McLovin]

I have perfectly good broadband access, the NBN does nothing for me.

I don't. I'd like significantly faster and cheaper broadband. I want to be able to watch streaming TV and video. If I could get a decent broadband package then I'd probably buy a Slingbox so I could watch TV from Europe and the US.

That being said, given how quickly data speeds and volume are increasing I do wonder whether building an underground cable network is really the answer. Over the air seems to be able to do 90% of what cable does at 1/10th of the cost.

 

[todster]

I don't. I'd like significantly faster and cheaper broadband. I want to be able to watch streaming TV and video. If I could get a decent broadband package then I'd probably buy a Slingbox so I could watch TV from Europe and the US.

That being said, given how quickly data speeds and volume are increasing I do wonder whether building an underground cable network is really the answer. Over the air seems to be able to do 90% of what cable does at 1/10th of the cost.

Until it gets busy or rains.

 

[todster]

How would you feel about a lazy 16b on some dodgy war planes.
Now theres some value for your tax payer dollar.
The Libs get back in we will be ready to invade another country this time.

 

[McLovin]

Until it gets busy or rains.

AFAIK, WiMax is not overly affected by rain as say satellite TV is. And we do live on the driest continent on Earth so I wouldn't be too concerned about loss of signal. You do realise that cable isn't unlimited bandwidth so will slow down when it gets busy, which was the point I was making; what happens in 10/15/20 years when the cable needs to be dug up and upgraded?

 

[Logique]

T, I have never believed that internet rollout is a zero sum game between optical cable and wireless. Australia needs more access for more people, no question. I come from a value per GB viewpoint.

On the subject of Defence spending, certainly not notable for their parsimony. Collins Class subs a case in point. Beazley praises completion of last Collins Class sub, March 29, 2003: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2003-03-29/beazley-praises-completion-of-last-collins-class/1825990

 

[boofhead]

McLovin: Optical fibres generally have a much longer lifespan and upgradable than you suggest. Telecommunications over optical fibres generally only need the terminating equipment to be upgraded and not the actual cable. I'm not sure where you got any other impression.

Also the individual customer fibre is not shared. You seem to be mixing things up with coaxial cable as used by Bigpond, Optus, and other companies overseas.

Some of the information in this thread reads like it has been delivered by Tony Abbott or Alan Jones. That is without any fact checking.

As for various forms of wireless - as customer densities increase so do the tower densities. Local councils etc. have started to show more resistance to them. Typically they use fibre to connect to the telcos. Some ISPs in Australia have some experience with WiMax.

 

[Smurf1976]

what happens in 10/15/20 years when the cable needs to be dug up and upgraded?

Just replace the electronics at each end and there's your upgrade. F/O cable itself hasn't really changed much over the years and there's not much you could really do to it anyway beyond installing more fibres on key trunk routes.

 

[So_Cynical]

AFAIK, WiMax is not overly affected by rain as say satellite TV is. And we do live on the driest continent on Earth so I wouldn't be too concerned about loss of signal. You do realise that cable isn't unlimited bandwidth so will slow down when it gets busy,

This has been addressed ad nauseum back between pages 0 to 20 ~ wireless has limitations that fibre doesn't.

which was the point I was making; what happens in 10/15/20 years when the cable needs to be dug up and upgraded?

Same as a sewer pipe...it will re replaced as and when necessary with what ever is appropriate at the time...all the myths and misinformation are covered here http://nbnmyths.wordpress.com/ please read it.

 

[sptrawler]

I just hope 2012 sees some goals kicked and some big scores posted for the N.B.N.
If it doesn't there really will be some big issues.
By the way I hope it works, Telstra shareholders couldn't take this size a project onboard. Also Singapore optus, Virgin U.K, Vodaphone Europe didn't want to put money in.
I just really hope the Australian taxpayer can fund it.
The Labor party are banking on it coming in on time, under budget. I personaly wouldn't be putting money on that.
What am I saying it's my money funding it.
But realy I do hope it works out.

 

[todster]

T, I have never believed that internet rollout is a zero sum game between optical cable and wireless. Australia needs more access for more people, no question. I come from a value per GB viewpoint.

On the subject of Defence spending, certainly not notable for their parsimony. Collins Class subs a case in point. Beazley praises completion of last Collins Class sub, March 29, 2003: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2003-03-29/beazley-praises-completion-of-last-collins-class/1825990

As bad as the Collins class debacle was/is it kept a lot of pointy head south aussies employed through some ordinary times unlike jets built o/s

 

[Bill M]

AFAIK, WiMax is not overly affected by rain as say satellite TV is. And we do live on the driest continent on Earth so I wouldn't be too concerned about loss of signal.

I live in an area with a high population and we can not get WiMax, ADSL or any other form of broadband except for G3 or less. I have been with Telstras G3 service for over 2 years now, it has nothing on ADSL for speed and quality. It is terrible when it rains (we get heaps) and drops out frequently. Wireless is not the solution for a permanent broadband connection for homes. The best plan I can get is 12 Gig a Month, I can use that in 2 weeks and then I am slowed to 64 kps which is so hard to use that it is better to turn off the computer, this is Australia.

 

[NBNMyths]

From the Myth spreaders survey:

Incidentally the survey you linked to was conducted by by EMC, whose proud boast is;
We know our approach works because when organisations work with EMC they win:

With the ACTU we drove the Howard Government out of power with the Your Rights at Work campaign
With the AEU we secured billions of dollars in federal funding

http://www.essentialmedia.com.au/what-we-do/

Your affiliations are becoming much clearer now.

Nice cherry pick. I see you ignored all their other campaigns listed on the same page. However, whether Essential has worked for the ACTU doesn't seem particularly relevant to me (Find a polling agency that hasn't worked for a lobby group or party), but if you'd prefer, here's one from Swinburne University:
http://cci.edu.au/sites/default/files/sewing/CCi Digital Futures 2010 1.pdf

Also, if you'd like to provide some opposing evidence, I'll be only too happy to eat my words. So, feel free to find a survey (as opposed to an online poll) that has found majority opposition to the NBN. Good luck with that.

That being said, given how quickly data speeds and volume are increasing I do wonder whether building an underground cable network is really the answer. Over the air seems to be able to do 90% of what cable does at 1/10th of the cost.

Except it's not like that. If we look at current NBN v current 4G wireless, it's actually wireless providing 1/10th of NBN capability and 1/67th of NBN volume for the same monthly cost.

AFAIK, WiMax is not overly affected by rain as say satellite TV is. And we do live on the driest continent on Earth so I wouldn't be too concerned about loss of signal. You do realise that cable isn't unlimited bandwidth so will slow down when it gets busy, which was the point I was making; what happens in 10/15/20 years when the cable needs to be dug up and upgraded?

Pretty much any wireless system is adversely affected by the weather, topography and other obstructions. The degree varies based on the frequency in use and the power outputs more than the type of technology. The problem is that every chunk of radio spectrum can only serve a limited number of users. Widening the available spectrum into higher bands makes the problem worse, because higher frequencies generally have poorer penetration.

As others have written, there's no need to dig up the NBN fibre to increase speeds. Just as is regularly done with our submarine fibre cables, you just upgrade the transceiving equipment at the cable ends to increase the speed. The NBN cable being laid to each premises today offers 100Mbps. Next year they'll start offering 1Gbps over the same cable (with no equipment upgrade). There is a roadmap to 10Gbps in about 5yrs, and 100Gbps in ~15 years, although these upgrades will probably require upgrade of in=-premises equipment, like when we changed from ADSL to ADSL2.

I don't think anyone would argue that.

What is your background in relation to the NBN ?

It's something to which you devote a lot of time.

No background with the NBN. It's just one of my pet obsessions. Not paid by NBN, don't work for them in any way, don't know anyone who is. Don't work or know anyone who works for/has any financial interest etc with any related company etc.

 

[Calliope]

Also, if you'd like to provide some opposing evidence, I'll be only too happy to eat my words. So, feel free to find a survey (as opposed to an online poll) that has found majority opposition to the NBN. Good luck with that.

You gullibility surprises me. Do a survey and ask whether your respondent would prefer to have a BMW or a Holden in his garage. Then ask which one they would buy. Ask your mates at EMC to do the survey. Good luck with that.

No background with the NBN. It's just one of my pet obsessions. Not paid by NBN, don't work for them in any way, don't know anyone who is. Don't work or know anyone who works for/has any financial interest etc with any related company etc

Yes, you are obviously obsessed. It is a political obsession.

 

[NBNMyths]

You gullibility surprises me. Do a survey and ask whether your respondent would prefer to have a BMW or a Holden in his garage. Then ask which one they would buy. Ask your mates at EMC to do the survey. Good luck with that.

Yes, you are obviously obsessed. It is a political obsession.

If you note my original statement, it was "every public survey has shown a majority of Australians do want the NBN".

I've provided you with three surveys, two by Essential and one by Swinburne Uni. You apparently disagree, but have provided zero evidence to support your position, other than attacking the messengers. Until you do so, I'm sure any reasonable person would say you must concede the point. I believe Put Up or Shut Up is the colloquial term.

Actually, I don't have a particularly strong political obsession. I do usually vote ALP state/federal, but not always. I never vote ALP in local elections. During the last NSW State election I voted for the Libs, because the ALP was long past their use-by date..... However, given their rather disappointing more-of-the-same performance, I won't vote for them in 2014.

As I've written before, I am supportive of the NBN, not necessarily the parties who back it.

More specifically, I actually support building a communications network that provides world-class infrastructure to all Australians at a universal, affordable monthly price. Since the NBN is the only policy on the table that delivers on those objectives, I support the NBN. Now if the Coalition were to move into the 21st century and announce a viable alternative to the NBN, then I'd be only too happy to consider it.

 

[Calliope]

More specifically, I actually support building a communications network that provides world-class infrastructure to all Australians at a universal, affordable monthly price.

Gillard couldn't have said it better. However you left out "for working Australians" and "going forward."

Unlike you, I am not obsessive about an NBN. In fact, I couldn't give a fig about the NBN. My service provides me with all I need. However my Scottish heritage programs me to abhor wastage of the money that is poured into NBN Co. and goes down the gurgler, without any checks and balances. "It's like deja-vu, all over again."

 

[NBNMyths]

Gillard couldn't have said it better. However you left out "for working Australians" and "going forward."

Unlike you, I am not obsessive about an NBN. In fact, I couldn't give a fig about the NBN. My service provides me with all I need. However my Scottish heritage programs me to abhor wastage of the money that is poured into NBN Co. and goes down the gurgler, without any checks and balances. "It's like deja-vu, all over again."

Nice to know that the I'm alright Jack principle is alive and well.

The fact is that Australia's broadband capabilities lag far behind most countries in the OECD. We fall further behind our trading partners and competitors every year.
The fact is that Australians living outside the small footprints of competitive ADSL2 networks and the even smaller footprints of the HFC networks pay far more for broadband than the lucky ones who live in a few cities and their suburbs.
The fact is that many Australians in metro areas can't even get ADSL at any price.

Don't you agree that all Australians should have access to decent broadband at similar pricing? Just as the vast majority of us have access to power, water, telephone etc at similar pricing, why should broadband be any different? Especially as more and more of our lives depend on it.


This is the situation that 11 years of Coalition communications policy gave us. This is the situation of "leaving it to the market" gave us. Not exactly a good example of success.


Exactly how is money invested in NBN Co going "down the gurgler", and how many checks and balances do you want? NBN Co has more scrutiny applied to it than pretty much any other GBE.

 

[Calliope]

NBN Co has more scrutiny applied to it than pretty much any other GBE.

Not by the Fairfax Press or the ABC. And Conroy, predictably, wants to muzzle News Ltd.

 

[awg]

...all the myths and misinformation are covered here http://nbnmyths.wordpress.com/ please read it.

Thx for the reference, so I did. Excerpt quoted below

**********

4. Noone else in the world is installing such a system

False

Fibre-To-The-Premises or Home (FTTP/H) is currently being rolled out in hundreds of countries around the World, including the UK,

***************

This is mathematically impossible, as the total number of countries in the entire world is <197 http://www.worldatlas.com/nations.htm

What I do know for sure, is the NBN will have an army of overpaid seat-shiners.

Is that an official NBN site?

 

[NBNMyths]

Not by the Fairfax Press or the ABC. And Conroy, predictably, wants to muzzle News Ltd.

Perhaps you're confusing "scrutiny" with "making stuff up"?

http://www.presscouncil.org.au/docu...torGroupID=662&LocatorFormID=677&FromSearch=1