QANTAS Grounds all Flights

[Calliope]

QANTAS has locked out international pilots, baggage handlers and engineers, essentially bringing its operations to a halt.

We are locking out until the unions withdraw their extreme claim and reach agreement with us,” Qantas chief executive Alan Joyce told a press conference today.

Mr Joyce said his hand had been tipped by the impossible demands of the three unions.

“They are trashing our strategy and our brand,” he said. “They are deliberately destabilising the company and there is no end in sight.”

If the industrial action continued, Qantas would have no choice but to shut down its business “part by part”, the chief executive said.

He believed the lock out and grounding of the fleet was the only effective avenue at his disposal to bring about a solution to the dispute.

Mr Joyce said he was sorry the course of action had become necessary but the ball was now in the unions' court.

“They must decide just how badly they want to hurt Qantas, their members ... and the travelling public,” he said.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/bus...unds-all-flights/story-e6frg95x-1226180313383



The unions destroyed Ansett. They are on track to destroy Qantas

 

[JTLP]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/mo...passengers-today/story-fn7x8me2-1226180030416

It's actually all flights now. Good old unions - if they're all for the jobs they wouldn't be destroying QANTAS would they?

 

[robusta]

Re: QANTAS Grounds all Flights

From a investment viewpoint maybe the returns would be better if they sold everything and put the capital in the bank. The unions may hurt Qantas their members and the travelling public but IMO the shareholders would be better off not throwing money into this business. Same goes for Virgin as well.

 

[Whiskers]

The unions destroyed Ansett. They are on track to destroy Qantas

Not quite true.

Rupert Murdock controlled Ansett, put off renewing aircraft and the like to milk it of cash and sell out of it before the extent of the emptiness of the Ansett shell became apparent.

I have little time for TWU in particular in particular, but to echo Joyce's commentary is folly for me at this stage. Joyce seems more of the confrontational Murdock style than a people person Branson for example... ie whereas Murdock would deliberately milk companies of their assets, especially cash, before letting them go broke, Joyce is more likely to just cause collateral damage to get his way.

I want to have a closer look at who actually controls Qantas, literally through the share register and or who Joyce might be playing in favor of, before casting aspersions.

 

[drsmith]

Jetstar is still operating.

http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-new...ted-capacity-this-weekend-20111029-1mpiw.html

 

[trainspotter]

Alan Joyce gets a 71% pay increase and now pays himself 5 million dollars a year. The airline was losing 15 million a week from industrial action. The workers were asking for $1 per hour payrise. The airline since being grounded is losing 20 million dollars a day. The pilots association was not involved in the dispute. It is now.

And this is the Unions fault?? The blame lies squarely at Alan Joyces feet. DYOR.

 

[kavla1970]

Alan Joyce gets a 71% pay increase and now pays himself 5 million dollars a year. The airline was losing 15 million a week from industrial action. The workers were asking for $1 per hour payrise. The airline since being grounded is losing 20 million dollars a day. The pilots association was not involved in the dispute. It is now.

And this is the Unions fault?? The blame lies squarely at Alan Joyces feet. DYOR.

$1? That's it.

 

[trainspotter]

$1? That's it.

YES ..... the lowly paid workers are on $20 per hour. They wanted a 3% pay increase same as the Customs officials plus some benefits totalling an extra $1 per hour.

Same staff that helped them to a $534 million dollar profit last year as well.

http://m.news.com.au/TopStories/pg/2/fi903767.htm;jsessionid=CEB361080C75CD102F643E85ED74A2ED

 

[startrader]

That little creep is destroying the airline. How he still has job I just don't know. He is feeding lies and disinformation to the media who are printing it verbatim as they want those advertising dollars to keep coming in.

 

[Tim Canberra]

The question now is whether or not to buy Qantas shares on Monday. I'm assuming there may be a trading halt and/or price plummet.

 

[Julia]

From a investment viewpoint maybe the returns would be better if they sold everything and put the capital in the bank. The unions may hurt Qantas their members and the travelling public but IMO the shareholders would be better off not throwing money into this business. Same goes for Virgin as well.

Perhaps not as simple as that. Qantas is one of the essential Australian icons.
We need to have a national carrier.

Maybe take into account that Virgin staff are not nearly as well paid as their equivalents in Qantas.

Perhaps Richard Branson has the personal charisma and capacity to carry people with him and this is something Mr Joyce lacks.


This evening ABC are reporting that the government has intervened. About time.
This will be quite a test of the usefulness of Fair Work Australia.

 

[Whiskers]

I haven't been following this dispute very closely, but Joyce seems to think that because some of the demands by the unions are outside industry norms, he will win with a return to work order.

That's the folly of his reasoning, I think. If everything stayed within industry norms, nothing would ever change.

All it says to me is Joyce is not prepared to be a trend setter in employment conditions like some other successful companies. He sees lower employment costs by overseas recruitment and provision of maintaince services etc as the only solution to competitive market forces. We all know about the compromise in safety and the worsening safety record from Qantas in recent years.

I wouldn't rule out other unions joining in now as a matter of principle, maybe even an ACTU complete shut down of Qantas and it's associates.

From the Labor Gov point of view, this could be the final nail in their coffin if they support Joyce. The ACTU will further dissociate themselves from the ALP and maybe launch one hell of a campaign against the ALP come next election... and I think Labor knows it... and know they can't afford it.

I'm a bit curious of support of Joyce by insto's, in the light of opposition by retail investors and the increase in the share register of the likes of Franklin Resources Inc. and it's affiliates with the timing of Joyce's announcement immediately after the AGM.

With Joyce seemingly having a preplanned strategy, the Gov pissed off that it wasn't consulted, an emergency FWA hearing set, the ACTU meeting to consider it's position... it's going to be an interesting couple of days with someone ending up with egg in their face.

Since Qantas was still running at a profit, albeit a reduced profit, I'm wondering whether their grounding of the fleet and subsequent application to the FWA will be considered an abuse of the FWA act. It's a hell of a risky move by Joyce.

 

[Smurf1976]

Maybe take into account that Virgin staff are not nearly as well paid as their equivalents in Qantas.

Perhaps Richard Branson has the personal charisma and capacity to carry people with him and this is something Mr Joyce lacks.

You've hit the nail on the head there.

The airline business is a tough one and that is no secret. Virgin management have clearly done a good job of keeping the staff on side and making a go of it whereas Qantas management is a comparative failure.

In all seriousness and looking at other occupations and the level of responsibility involved, I'd value the true worth of the Qantas CEO at $30 per hour. He's a trouble making dud pure and simple. Worth a bit more than a truly unskilled worker perhaps, he does have some skills, but nowhere near as valuable as someone who can actually fly a plane or even fix one. He clearly lacks the ability to resolve conflict, indeed he seems to be doing the exact opposite.

I've seen similar scenarios in a few smaller businesses before and my guess is that Qantas simply won't exist at all in a few years time if management keeps going the way they are. Whilst Qantas is focused on infighting and all this strife, rivals are just getting on with it and focusing on running the business. That alone gives rivals a massive strategic advantage over Qantas - they are focused on growing the business, Qantas is focused on managing decline.

End the fight with the unions, stop all this argument for the sake of argument, then they might have a chance of turning it around. But it's not going to be good whilst Qantas management are determined to whack the unions over the head for the sake of it.

As I posted a while ago on the Virgin thread, I'd quite willingly pay more to fly Virgin than I'd pay to fly Qantas and the reasons why are a no brainer really. Why take a chance with old aircraft and unhappy staff (likely to make errors...) when there's an alternative that is simply getting on with the job of flying from A to B with comparatively few problems?

Qantas is a classic case of marketing based on past glories unfortunately. For those who only ever fly with them, all seems well. But those who also fly with the main domestic competitor will be well aware that Virgin have made a lot of improvements to their service over the past few years and are now a serious alternative rather than the "cheap" airline they were a few years ago. In short, they've taken note of what customers want and are getting on with the job of running an airline. Likewise there are plenty of good international airlines as well.

As for Qantas being a "national" airline - there's a pretty clear lesson with things "too big to fail" and that is that they go horribly wrong under under private ownership for the simple reaons that the fundamental principles of capitalism are undermined by the virtual certainty of a government bailout should things go wrong. If government is going to carry the risk then we may as well just nationalise it and be done with it.

 

[Calliope]

This evening ABC are reporting that the government has intervened. About time.
This will be quite a test of the usefulness of Fair Work Australia.

Fair Work Australia is biased towards the unions. I agree with Peter Reith. There is no place for government intervention in industrial disputes, especially a Labor Government. When the unions want to take control of a company (as they did with Ansett) the company then becomes non-competitive.

 

[Ferret]

Government should cancel Joyce's work visa and put him on the first (non-Qantas) flight back to Ireland!

 

[Calliope]

Not quite true.

Rupert Murdock controlled Ansett, put off renewing aircraft and the like to milk it of cash and sell out of it before the extent of the emptiness of the Ansett shell became apparent.

The Unions killed off Ansett

The unions were fully aware of the arrangements at Virgin Blue which allowed it to operate at costs 40 per cent below Ansett's. But when Mr Toomey, CEO of Air NZ/Ansett, came to the unions six months ago with an agenda to make the company more competitive with Virgin Blue, he was spurned. Even when the firm went bankrupt, the unions continued their bloody-mindedness. They initially blocked Qantas from taking Ansett's planes by demanding that it match Ansett's more generous wages and conditions.

http://www.ipa.org.au/news/452/the-demise-of-ansett/pg/3

 

[todster]

The Unions killed off Ansett



http://www.ipa.org.au/news/452/the-demise-of-ansett/pg/3

Gut Qantas to promote Jetstar.
Nick Xenephon talked about this a while back you should read more.

 

[drsmith]

As for Qantas being a "national" airline - there's a pretty clear lesson with things "too big to fail" and that is that they go horribly wrong under under private ownership for the simple reaons that the fundamental principles of capitalism are undermined by the virtual certainty of a government bailout should things go wrong. If government is going to carry the risk then we may as well just nationalise it and be done with it.

What's that in the distance after the the flood levy ?

Is it a bird ?

Is it a plane ?

Is it a Qantas levy ?

 

[Smurf1976]

The Unions killed off Ansett

My experience with unions tells me that it takes rather a lot to actually start a dispute and that they aren't usually completely one sided.

It reminds me of a far simpler situation as follows. In short, workers used to drive company cars home each day. Then management decided that this was not an entitlement so they would end commuter use of vehicles. The bottom line is that it ended up costing more to lease overnight parking space than it used to cost to have employees drive them home. Needless to say the unions got involved and this is a classic example of defective management - wasting money and upsetting the unions as well for zero gain to the company.

Things like that happen an awful lot, and I suspect the Qantas issue has more to do with management trashing the Qantas brand than anything about wages and conditions. I could be wrong, but the entire management strategy seems to involve a race to the bottom - something that other airlines are already moving away from because it isn't overly profitable.

 

[startrader]

John Borghetti used to work for Qantas and was passed over in favour of Joyce for the top job. He left after six months "after seeing the company was going in a direction he didn't want to go" and was offered the CEO job at Virgin. Since then he has changed the name of the airline, struck international alliances with major airlines, such as Singapore Airlines, amongst many other changes. Staff morale is very high and the staff love him.

There couldn't be a more stark contrast with him and Joyce and I never see this mentioned in any of the media. Part of being a good manager is to manage your staff well and clearly Joyce is doing the opposite of this.

Joyce's goal is to get rid of Qantas entirely and only have a low cost carrier or drive the share price down so low that there is a private equity bid for the airline that he will profit from.

That is rubbish that he keeps sprouting about Qantas being uncompetitive and not making money and the pilots being overpaid. Also they are not being paid anything like the figures that are being printed in the papers. I keep reading that pilots working for overseas companies are paid peanuts and so the Qantas pilots should be too but this is just completely untrue. I have brothers flying for two very well known overseas companies and they are on huge money.