What does the Carbon Tax mean for me?

[sails]

That's a crock! i say the majority of ASF posters are right wing because the evidence of that is totally overwhelming (number of posts and threads) we live in a world of capitalism tempered with socialism..if you don't like that go live in the US were the minimum wage is like $6...

I've got a better idea. Tell that to the striking Qantas workers...

And, I agree with Julia that it's very silly to call people who are dissatisfied with this government as being "right". Most thinking Australians are concerned for this country and don't like the deceitful way this carbon tax has been forced on to us.

When there was similar anger against Howard's work choices, would you then consider all swinging voters as "left" even though some of those same voters now will swing to the "right"?

It's more about what's best for the country and which party will inflict the least damage on to our economy.

 

[McLovin]

Typical of you to quote the minimum wage without reference to the fact that most of the income of most people in the US on this low wage is derived from tips, something that hardly exists in Australia.

In most states working in a job with tips will reduce the minimum wage that has to be paid. At the extreme, in Virginia, for example, the minimum wage can be reduced to $0 if it can be shown the worker will earn the minimum wage in tips. Hardly a system to strive for.

 

[So_Cynical]

It's more about what's best for the country and which party will inflict the least damage on to our economy.

The last part of your post says alot..and its something ive been going on about in this forum for a while...You and the majority of the right want Govt's to do nothing, change nothing...the overwhelming concern seems to be about the (perceived) damage done rather than the cost of opportunity.

Change is life sails...embrace it.

 

[Knobby22]

Yes many states have wages below $3.00 if there are tips.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._minimum_wages

 

[McLovin]

Yes many states have wages below $3.00 if there are tips.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._minimum_wages

Not only that, but in 1979 the minimum wage was $2.90. 32 years later and it's $7.25. You don't need to be a CPI wonk to know it's been going backwards in real terms.

 

[Knobby22]

Not only that, but in 1979 the minimum wage was $2.90. 32 years later and it's $7.25. You don't need to be a CPI wonk to know it's been going backwards in real terms.

It's been worse lately.
The average pay the middle class gets has actually gone down over the last 8 years. Saw the chart on Mish's Blog a while back.

How can the USA recover if they make the ordinary person poorer. THe trickle down affect from the top isn't working. You can tell by the Wall Street sit in and the Tea party people that the average Joe is starting to get sick of being cut out from a fair share of the wealth. I give it about 8 years before we start getting a sea change in US politics.

 

[derty]

Not only that, but in 1979 the minimum wage was $2.90. 32 years later and it's $7.25. You don't need to be a CPI wonk to know it's been going backwards in real terms.

Ahh yes the trickle down economy appears to be a little too viscous.

 

[McLovin]

It's been worse lately.
The average pay the middle class gets has actually gone down over the last 8 years. Saw the chart on Mish's Blog a while back.

How can the USA recover if they make the ordinary person poorer. THe trickle down affect from the top isn't working. You can tell by the Wall Street sit in and the Tea party people that the average Joe is starting to get sick of being cut out from a fair share of the wealth. I give it about 8 years before we start getting a sea change in US politics.

Great question. They're squeezing the middle-class (who are also bearing the tax burden) into working poor and then wondering why the middle-class isn't spending.

 

[Wysiwyg]

What is the government (us?) striving for? Better living conditions? How much better is better? Where does it stop? Why can't people be happy with living simply and comfortably? Everyone wants more more more.

Shelter :- that being rent or buy a dwelling.
Problem :- Cost to rent upward from 25% of wage, cost of house unaffordable by "average" wage earner.

Food/clothing/furniture/whitegoods etc. :- nourishing, wholesome food for the organism; comfortable, climate-suitable clothing, fridges, computers
Problem :- escalating costs due to what? manufacturing/production costs, labor costs (chicken or egg first), importing more and more from other countries, GST.

In the end it is the same story, the majority run through life with the wealth carrot dangling in front of their nose, forever just out of reach.

 

[basilio]

I like your line WYSIWG. Perhaps the best answer is to be live more simply and not try and keep up lifestyles that we simply can't afford - either individually or collectively.
_____________________________________________________________________

Looks like BIG Business is coming out in support of a carbon price to tackle the effects of Global Warming. (Remember that this the main game in the debate)

Business leaders issue 2˚C Challenge
More than 175 corporations sign new statement demanding global emissions deal to limit temperature rise and build green economy

By Will Nichols

20 Oct 2011

More than 175 of the world's largest companies will today call on governments around the world to agree a "robust, equitable and effective agreement" on climate change at the Durban summit later this year.

Shell, Tesco, Kingfisher, BSkyB, Unilever, Lloyds Bank and EDF are among the businesses from 29 countries to endorse the 2˚C Challenge Communiqué launched in cities across the world by members of the Corporate Leaders' Network for Climate Action (CLN).


As BusinessGreen revealed earlier this month, the Communiqué warns that without urgent action climate change threatens to "undermine global prosperity and inflict significant social, economic and environmental costs on the world".

It also warns that the legal basis for the world's carbon markets will be allowed to lapse and "business will have insufficient clarity or certainty of action to invest to its full potential" in low-carbon projects if there is no international deal to extend or replace the Kyoto Protocol. debate.)

http://www.businessgreen.com/bg/news/2118466/business-leaders-issue-2-c-challenge-communique

 

[Calliope]

That's a crock! i say the majority of ASF posters are right wing because the evidence of that is totally overwhelming (number of posts and threads) we live in a world of capitalism tempered with socialism..if you don't like that go live in the US were the minimum wage is like $6

JTLP's remark must have cut you to the quick. You not only aspire to be the leading Leftie but you continually tell us what a smart trader you are.

 

[Julia]

I like your line WYSIWG. Perhaps the best answer is to be live more simply and not try and keep up lifestyles that we simply can't afford - either individually or collectively.

Agree in principle but the reality is that an increasing percentage of Australians seem to be unable to afford even the most basic lifestyle. e.g. how can anyone exist on an unemployment benefit of $240 p.w.? Not everyone on this benefit is a so called bludger. Many decent, hardworking Australians have been made redundant as companies have downsized during the GFC.

The increases in electricity and other costs from the carbon tax for people living in poverty will place a disproportionate burden on them.

So easy for all those who are responsible for instigating this illogical tax to impose it when they're earning above average incomes.

 

[basilio]

Agree in principle but the reality is that an increasing percentage of Australians seem to be unable to afford even the most basic lifestyle. e.g. how can anyone exist on an unemployment benefit of $240 p.w.? Julia

Quite true. I think that is a scandal.

I was actually referring to the range of people in more normal income level , and I suggest everyone. Reducing our overall energy/environment impact makes sense on many grounds. At the most basic it will be because economic conditions deteriorate and we will have to work out how to live on less.

By the way the compensation package the Government has floated for either pensioners or lower income families should overcompensate them for cost increase due to carbon levy costs.

 

[Calliope]

By the way the compensation package the Government has floated for either pensioners or lower income families should overcompensate them for cost increase due to carbon levy costs.

Yes, that shows it's more about winning votes. There is Buckley's chance of it affecting climate change.
.

 

[tothemax6]

Your quite right to point out the challenge to our economy.

But unless every analyst is totally wrong (yet again ) we are definitely running out of cheap easy to find energy and the consequences will be dire. And that is certainly one of the reasons we need to start the change away from carbon fuels.

Nuclear is the only realistic base load energy source going forward.

 

[IFocus]

If you're actually expecting a response from IF, don't hold your breath. I'm still waiting for a response to a question I asked days ago.

When you develop some manners and behave yourself I will start talking to you.

 

[Wysiwyg]

Nuclear is the only realistic base load energy source going forward.

Yes away from communities and water supplies and earthquake zones and cyclone activity and grazing land is fine.
Oh and jettison the waste into the sun.

 

[IFocus]

I have empathy for you IF.

I understand why you want to change the subject.

That one is a bit hard to deal I take it.

There is a revenue hole approaching future governments Abbotts narrative means he will not be able to deal with when he becomes PM.

That also includes an incredible long list of other issues.

 

[wayneL]

When you develop some manners and behave yourself I will start talking to you.

Julia,

I can translate leftist doublespeak:

What IF is saying is that he has no answers to your question.

 

[Eager]

Cheerio Eager.

Please close the door on your way out.

You're one funny guy!