Where in the hell is Australia heading?

[Smurf1976]

We are the biggest per capita carbon burners

How did you calculate that?

Quite a bit of our emissions, specifically that which relates to mining, smelting and LNG are largely the responsibility of others. The EU, China and others have effectively outsourced their emissions to countries such as Australia due to economic, natural resource and political factors.

Much is said about emissions from Hazelwood power station in Victoria. The fact is we export far more than its' entire output via aluminium smelting alone. Then there's all the other minerals we process prior to export...

 

[trainspotter]

and here is the link http://sites.google.com/site/yarrav...l-is-king”-australia-co2-pollution-fact-sheet

Why not just actually check some facts here peoples

http://www.google.com/publicdata?ds...rdim=country&idim=country:QAT:AUS&hl=en&dl=en

So what you do is click on AUSTRALIA and a nice little line appears. Click the box with China, Qatar, USA, Kuwait etc and the nice little line is above us.

Neato.

*GOSH* does anyone realise PER CAPITA that Qatar if waaaaaaaay ahead of us ?

 

[Glen48]

The crumbling U.S. economy has pushed millions of ordinary Americans to the brink of utter desperation. When it comes time to choose between being able to survive or breaking the law, many people are choosing to break the law. These days it seems like Americans will do just about anything for money. All over the country, there are areas where just about anything that is not bolted down is being stolen. A lot of people have resorted to making money however they can - selling drugs, selling their bodies, shoplifting, invading homes, taking bribes, running credit card scams and even stealing from their own family members. You will have a hard time believing some of the things that you are about to read below. When people have their backs pushed up against the wall, often they find that they are willing to do things that they never imagined that they would do. Things are getting crazy out there on the streets of America, and as the economy continues to decline things are going to get a lot crazier.

The following are 15 examples that show many Americans have become so desperate that they will do just about anything for money....

#1 In Utah, one unemployed 28 year old man is offering to be "human prey" for hunters for the bargain price of $10,000. For an additional $2,000, he will let people hunt him down while he is running around naked.

#2 The Huffington Post is reporting that there has been an epidemic of air conditioning thefts all over the United States....

Across the country, in states like Illinois, Texas, Arizona, Georgia and Florida, there have been reports of thieves stealing unsecured air conditioning units weighing as much as 125 pounds.
#3 In Corpus Christi, Texas thieves have actually been breaking into funeral homes in order to steal the embalming fluid.

#4 Even police officers are committing desperate acts these days. Just check out what one police officer in Chicago is charged with doing....

A Chicago Police officer stole $50,000 from his ailing elderly father to pay off his bills and gambling debts and unsuccessfully attempted to swipe his dad’s retirement savings by impersonating him
#5 Nothing is off limits to thieves these days. Criminals recently broke into a southwest Atlanta beauty supply store and took off with $30,000 in hair extensions.

#6 In another area of Atlanta, thieves have been breaking down walls and busting bathroom fixtures with sledgehammers in order to get their hands on copper, brass and steel....

Kids in two Atlanta communities won’t have their neighborhood pools to help beat the summer heat, at least for now. Thieves used what is believed to be sledge hammers to bust walls and break fixtures in bathrooms at Adams and South Bend parks to steal copper, brass and steel.
#7 One grandmother in Florida has been accused of trying to sell her newborn grandson for $75,000.

#8 In Antioch, California a total of approximately 300 power poles were recently knocked down by thieves and stripped of their copper wiring.

#9 In Minnesota recently, a mob of teen girls brutally pummeled a mother and her two daughters until they were black and blue. Apparently the mob of teen girls was enraged over a pair of missing sunglasses.

#10 In Asheville, North Carolina thieves recently took off with 4 metal tables and 16 metal chairs that were sitting outside a pizzeria.

#11 In Florida, thieves have actually been stealing storm drain covers.

#12 In Oregon, thieves recently broke into a Salvation Army community center and stole 3 large air conditioning units. Now all the people that come to that facility for help and for community programs this summer will be absolutely sweltering.

#13 In the Cleveland area, two young boys that had set up a lemonade stand were robbed in broad daylight. The crooks got away with approximately 12 dollars.

#14 In Oklahoma, thieves recently broke into a church and stole "arts and crafts supplies meant to help teach bible stories to children".

#15 A 59 year old man from North Carolina named Richard James Verone was so desperate for money that he actually robbed a bank and got caught on purpose so that he could be put in prison and be given free health care.

One day Verone walked into an RBC Bank in North Carolina, handed a clerk a note demanding exactly one dollar and sat down and waited for the police to arrive and arrest him.

Verone has a growth on his chest and two ruptured disks but he does not have any health insurance. He is hoping that in prison he will get the medical treatment that he needs.

As society continues to unravel, prison is going to look like an appealing option for more and more people.

At least in prison you get fed, you have a roof over your head and they will take care of your medical needs.

For a whole lot of Americans, that would be a major step up.

Have you noticed that the thin veneer of civilization that we all take for granted is starting to disappear?

America is becoming a cold, cruel place and lawlessness is everywhere.

For many more signs that our society is starting to crumble, please see these two articles....

*"18 Signs The Collapse Of Society Is Accelerating"

*"12 More Signs That Society Is Collapsing"

For ages, Americans have looked down on the crime and the depravity that goes on in other areas of the world.

Well, now America has all of the crime and depravity it can handle and it is going to get a lot worse as millions of formerly middle class Americans descend into poverty.

A regular commenter on my website who identifies himself as "El Pollo de Oro" recently described the kind of chaos that he believes is coming to the streets of America....

I live in Philadelphia, a city that used to have a ton of blue-collar manufacturing jobs as well as a great deal of white-collar employment, but the blue-collar manufacturing jobs have disappeared–and on the white-collar side, a college degree isn’t necessarily the ticket to prosperity it once was. Philly has its share of nasty, dangerous ghetto areas as well as ritzy, upscale areas like Rittenhouse Square. But then, there are parts of Mexico City that look like Beverly Hills except that the signs are en español. A minority of Chilangos are filthy rich, which is what you expect in a Third World country: an uber-rich minority and a poor majority. And when The Banana Republic of America (formerly the USA) signed on for globalism and ignored Ross Perot’s warning, it opted to become a Third World country””which means that you can kiss the American middle class goodbye.

But there will be some growth industries in The Banana Republic of America: kidnapping, drug smuggling, murder for hire, carjacking, armed robbery. And if you want a taste of what life will be like in American cities in the future, just spend a few weeks in Guatemala City, Johannesburg or Caracas””all of which have the type of horrible crime rates that BRA cities can look forward to in the future. Desperate people do desperate things, and hardcore desperation will be in the norm in the BRA. It won’t be fun (unless, of course, being robbed at gunpoint in broad daylight is one’s idea of a good time).

Welcome to life in a rotting, decaying Third World hellhole. Welcome to the collapse of the Roman Empire. Welcome to life in The Banana Republic of America, formerly the USA.
America is changing. The safe, secure environment that we all used to take for granted is dying. The number of truly desperate people rises by the day, and many of those desperate people are willing to do just about anything for money.

The United States used to have a thriving middle class, but our economic system has been so manipulated over the decades that now almost all of the economic rewards go to the very top of the food chain.

25 years ago, the wealthiest 12 percent of all Americans controlled 33 percent of all the wealth. Today, the wealthiest 1 percent of all Americans control 40 percent of all the wealth.

In the United States today, we are actually witnessing the death of the middle class. Our jobs have been shipped overseas, the banks have enslaved us to debt, the government keeps finding more ways to tax us and the Federal Reserve keeps debasing our currency.

Everywhere you go, despair is in the air. According to a brand new Reuters/Ipsos poll, 63 percent of Americans believe that the nation is on the wrong track.

Fortunately, many Americans are responding to these signs of trouble by preparing.

One local Oklahoma newspaper recently did an article that profiled a few of the growing number of Americans that are preparing for hard times....

Rod and Lauretta Smith estimate they could survive a year without going to the grocery store.

A large garden on their 5-acre property in south Tulsa produces hundreds of quarts of canned and frozen beans, tomatoes and other vegetables. Chickens provide eggs.

The Smiths are among a small but growing number of people stocking up on food to become more self-reliant in a time marked by natural disasters and economic uncertainty.
The truth is that all of us should try to become less dependent on the system. The Democrats, the Republicans, the Federal Reserve and the big corporations are not there to help you. They are not going to come riding to the rescue if you lose your job and your home.

We all need to do what we can to become more independent and to prepare ourselves and our families for the incredibly difficult economic times that are inevitably coming. Those that have faith that their jobs will always be there or that the government will always take care of them will be deeply disappointed.

The system is dying and society is coming apart.

The only rational thing to do is to prepare for what is coming

 

[So_Cynical]

We are a country the size of a continent, sheer logistics mean we will pollute on a higher per capita basis. We are not the size of Japan, Italy or NZ even. Our population isn't going to double in the next 100 years and with the industrialisation of Africa, China, India to name a few, i am betting others per capita pollution will rise and ours will stay stagnant.

Agreed...also the fact that we have enormous coal reserves means we simply burn more coal than others.

The reduction target is small, the costs are huge and as i have stated before we will be purchasing tens of billions of dollars per annum overseas for the right to use our own resources, it's insanity. Not to mention the UN tax grab.

As i have posted before...this is a 2 way street, it is widely accepted that forestry offsets are easy and cheap offsets and so therefore will be the first taken up en mass...Australia is the best placed country to take advantage of that...i would think that within 10 or 15 years Australia will be exporting more offsets than it buys.

Don't worry SC once the Chinese start buying iron ore from the Congo, they will be wetting their pants laughing. That is the benefit of an emerging nation over one that is full of it's self importance. Meanwhile, i am sure that the Congo will be a recipient of our 10% carbon tax donation to the UN, to 'help' third world nations manage their carbon emissions. Geeeee i can't see any money going astray in the African nations, they are all so anti-corruption.

You mite want to have a look at this map of mining developments in the DRC
http://www.equamineral.com/i/cominco-equamineral-map-congo.jpg
Some of those deposits are a 1000 clicks from the coast and notice how there's not actually any rail lines to get ore to the coast...yep the Chinese must be really looking forward to spending billions on rail lines and power, port infrastructure so they can get there hands on that cheap carbon tax free iron ore.

Humans contribute 3.8% of global carbon in the atmosphere, of that 3.8% we contribute 1.3% and of that 1.3% we want to reduce it by 5%. Do the maths and see how much that will change global atmosphere. It's absurd.

I cant argue against inevitability.

The US sure as hell aren't going to buy it.
http://epw.senate.gov/public/index....ecord_id=d5c3c93f-802a-23ad-4f29-fe59494b48a6

Change comes slowly to America..they only just adopted a half decent national health plan, 20 > 30 years after the rest of the world did...they still don't have seat belt and helmet laws in many states..and don't have any realistic federal fuel taxes (The United States federal excise tax on gasoline, as of February 2011, is 4.86 ¢/L)..all this will change, inevitable.

I am not saying the world will end, but Australia will sure as hell have a sore foot from shooting itself.

The world is changing.

 

[sails]

And this from Wiki: List of countries by carbon dioxide emissions

Australia is at number 15 with a tiny 1.3% andand the highest emitters are China and the US emitting just of 40% of global co2. I understand the US is not going to price carbon and China is still burning coal and building new coal power stations.

To reduce our emissions by 5% is like spitting in the wind, and yet Gillard is willing to put people out of jobs (eg talks of closure of one power station already), risk our current reliable power source for renewables that are generally more costly and reliability is questionable, risk the Aussie economy for a spit in the wind and that?

The cure seems many times worse than the disease even IF it does exist.



Figures in the screen shot above was were captured when Wiki had some 2011 figures so you will see some minor differences between the picture below and what's currently on the Wiki page.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

We will all be rooned.

gg

 

[Julia]

Who was that obnoxiously servile reporter in the Canberra press gallery asking Gillard for advice on what to write?:bowdown: Thank God for The Australian

It was Mark Riley of channel 7, the infamous idiot who challenged Tony Abbott a few months ago about his "**** happens" remark in Afghanistan or Iraq. Mr Riley was subsequently widely criticised and even the government agreed Mr Abbott's comments had been totally misrepresented by Mark Riley.
In other words, a grub.

I'm not, would you care to provide some evidence to this claim ?

No, I would not. It has been thoroughly detailed in various threads on this forum and many other websites. I can't believe you are unaware of this fundamental fact.
Time to do some investigation and reading perhaps.

Acceptance of the science by whom ? By you ?

I can only assume you are being provocative here, rather than simply ignorant in the shift of support for AGW.

RandR - do some reading. There are numerous references to this on the other threads - the Climate Hysteria one and the Carbon Tax Lie one. It was admitted by the Labour government that the 'per capita emission' figures included our exports - which of course makes a complete nonsense of the figures.

See above. I gave a reference on one of the other sites to 900 peer reviewed reports written by climate change sceptics. Also look at the Joanna Nova site. For goodness sake, inform yourself of the facts before you form your opinions!!

Thank you Ruby. OK now, Rand? Hopefully next time you'll have a look at a few facts before making a post.

 

[Calliope]

To reduce our emissions by 5% is like spitting in the wind, and yet Gillard is willing to put people out of jobs (eg talks of closure of one power station already), risk our current reliable power source for renewables that are generally more costly and reliability is questionable, risk the Aussie economy for a spit in the wind and that?

The cure seems many times worse than the disease even IF it does exist.

So we come back to the quuestion...why the hell is she doing this? Why would she want to destroy our competitive edge in fossil fuels. There can be only one answer. To keep the Greens on side.

 

[Calliope]

It was Mark Riley of channel 7, the infamous idiot who challenged Tony Abbott a few months ago about his "**** happens" remark in Afghanistan or Iraq. Mr Riley was subsequently widely criticised and even the government agreed Mr Abbott's comments had been totally misrepresented by Mark Riley.
In other words, a grub.

Thanks Julia. I thought I recognised him. What a servile clown he is.

 

[Wysiwyg]

So we come back to the quuestion...why the hell is she doing this? Why would she want to destroy our competitive edge in fossil fuels. There can be only one answer. To keep the Greens on side.

Isn't it to raise funds for alternative energy research and development?

 

[noco]

Just to follow this type of thinking thru...if all country's simply waited for others to lead then how would anything happen? funny how this appeals to so many coalition voters...the do nothing approach to government.

Excuse me, wasn't that the purpose of Kyoto, Copenhagen and Cancun desgned to rope all nations into this crazy deal.

It did not work then and never will now. Do you really want Australia to be left up the creek without a paddle?

 

[noco]

Isn't it to raise funds for alternative energy research and development?

No way mate. They have reached the bottom of the barrell and need more doh,rae me to balance the bugdet.

How they will do it no one knows. This carbon tax thingy will create a black hole of $4 billion in the first year!!!!!!!!!

 

[sails]

Isn't it to raise funds for alternative energy research and development?

That's what Gillard is telling people. But when you look at the list below, I don't know what will be left. A bit of commsense suggests it will be very little for alternative energy, which imo, should be developed, tried and tested AND affordable BEFORE economists decide to make our current power so expensive that green energy will seem cheap in comparison. Here is where some of the carbon tax pie is to be used, as I understand it:

• compensation (big chunk of the C/T pie and going to people who are unlikely to change their habits)
• the new government departments needed to admister C/T
• the new fat cat high salaries for each new department
• 10% for the UN
• abatements going off shore to other countries (around $3-4 billion?) for the co2 we don't reduce to the target.

I am not sure if abatements are part of the tax or an extra cost (of course paid by "polluters" and passed on to the taxpayer). Shouldn't that money be kept here in Australia for development in renewables? But when economists design a solution for a complex climate science issue, it's going to be all about the money and little to do with the climate.

How much do you really think will be left? And just look at the track record of this government to manage finances, let alone a major tax change like this one.

If this goes through, it will be the mother of all Gillard debacles, imo. The mismanagement and further debt is inevitable, also imo.

I believe Gillard is only telling half truths out there and is taking us for fools. Good on the lady who spoke to Gillard in the shopping centre who told Gillard bluntly, "I'm not stupid".

 

[trainspotter]

I wonder how long it will be before "Stimulus Package #2" is required to invigorate the economy in Australia?

Afterall since the announcement of the carbon tax, Obama debt crisis, Greece bailout, Euro jitters, interest rates forecast to drop and China inflation figures, our piddly little economy has gone from a 2 speed drag car to a 1 speed unicycle.

 

[trainspotter]

Just some of the Government Departments setup to handle this mess. There will be hundreds more yet to come.

Australian National Registry of Emissions Units registry-contact@climatechange.gov.au
Carbon Farming Initiative General enquiries: CFI@climatechange.gov.au
Domestic Offsets Integrity Committee: DOIC@climatechange.gov.au
Emissions Intensive Trade exposed Industry Assistance EITE@climatechange.gov.au
Freedom of information co-ordinator (FOI) FOI_contact_officer@climatechange.gov.au
General Enquiries enquiries@climatechange.gov.au
Greenhouse and Energy Reporting reporting@climatechange.gov.au
Greenhouse and Energy Audit audit@climatechange.gov.au
Government Greenhouse and Energy Reporting (GGER) gger.help@environment.gov.au
Home Insulation EEHousehold@climatechange.gov.au
Media Unit media@climatechange.gov.au
Low Carbon Communities lowcarboncommunities@climatechange.gov.au
National Authority for the Clean Development
Mechanism and Joint Implementation DNA: DNA@climatechange.gov.au
DFP: DFP@climatechange.gov.au
OSCAR Technical Support oscar@climatechange.gov.au
Recruitment recruitment@climatechange.gov.au
Tax deductions for carbon sink forests carbonsinkforest@climatechange.gov.au
Tenders dcctenders@climatechange.gov.au

http://www.climatechange.gov.au/about/contact-us.aspx

While families are bracing themselves for further increases in prices and interest rates, the government is showing no signs of making any similar effort to cut back. Quite the opposite – since 2007 the government has expanded the public service by, on average, 6,000 a year, (that would be 24,000 more public servants) including 200 in Julia Gillard’s own department over the next financial year.

According to the latest annual report, there are 1027 public servants working for the Department of Climate Change alone. You need a significant workforce when you impose a failed pink batts scheme on Australian households and then have to try and clean it up. You also need a big workforce when you are preparing to tax Australians even more through a carbon tax. And how could I forget the government’s $13.7 million carbon tax ad campaign that is sure to keep all of those people busy.

http://laborwaste.com.au/committee-...n-program-an-extra-24000-public-service-jobs/

Whne Julia was in Opposition she was dead against using Guvmint (taxpayers) money to advertise to brainwash the populace. It would appear that this is different because that was the old Julia that was in Opposition and not the new Julia that is leading by deception. "There will be no carbon tax under the government I lead", to answer that truthfully means that Julia Gillard is not the leader of the goverment now is she? Bob Brown has the steering wheel and is leading us straight onto the rocks of financial oblivion.

 

[sails]

It is truly sickening. And these deluded people think we are leaving a better world for our grandchildren?

If Gillard takes us down this track, she will ruin Australia in the process, imo. And for what? Just so that Gillard gets her compulsive obsessive tax for her own achievement? This tax clearly has little, if anything, to do with the environment.

No thank you. I want to leave an Australia that is economically sound for my grand children. If co2 were such an imminent threat, the US and China would both be doing something about it and Gillard wouldn't be flitting around everywere in a dedicated jet for her purpose.

Abbott might not be perfect, but at least the libs know how to manage the economy.

 

[Ferret]

Abbott might not be perfect, but at least the libs know how to manage the economy.

They did in the past, but now?

A "direct action" plan that may even be even worse than the carbon tax.
Ridiculous and unaffordable lengths of paid maternity leave.
Joe Hockey at the helm of the economy.

As the title of the thread says, where the hell are we heading, even when we change government?

 

[sails]

They did in the past, but now?

A "direct action" plan that may even be even worse than the carbon tax.
Ridiculous and unaffordable lengths of paid maternity leave.
Joe Hockey at the helm of the economy.

As the title of the thread says, where the hell are we heading, even when we change government?

Yes, I agree Ferret. I don't like everything the coalition has on offer. I think they are divided over co2 and it was interesting listening to Costello yesterday on the Bolt Report on TV. As he pointed out there was much more public support for carbon pricing a few years ago, but that is falling off now. So, perhaps the coalition are slowly coming to their senses over Australia's futility of co2.

And the public is waking up too. With some dire predictions of no rain, etc which haven't wasn't correct, it's no wonder that people are not so sure anymore.

The paid maternity leave seems a lot to be desired. However, perhaps they will eventually shelve action on co2 until major countries such as US and China all work together. But I'm not so sure that we actually have a dire problem anyway.

But, even with their imperfections, the coalition would have to be a better choice than the one woman agenda and the tax payer funds she is throwing at her agenda is unbelievable, imo.

 

[Calliope]

Isn't it to raise funds for alternative energy research and development?

The Green's plans for renewable energy are pie in the sky. Germany is the Greenest country in the world and they are the worlds leading players in solar energy. They have expended 90 billion on it. And guess what? Solar delivers 0.50% of their energy needs.

Instead of wasting money on wind and solar we would do better to invest in Research and Development of efficient renewable energy alternatives.

 

[springhill]

They did in the past, but now?

A "direct action" plan that may even be even worse than the carbon tax.
Ridiculous and unaffordable lengths of paid maternity leave.
Joe Hockey at the helm of the economy.

As the title of the thread says, where the hell are we heading, even when we change government?

At least the money would stay in Australia, i'd rather they pissed it up against the wall like that than give it to the UN.