NBN Rollout Scrapped

[boofhead]

When governments change, so can projects. There's no hard and fast 100% rules that says the next government has to complete the project. Those involved will want compensation though. Like the Opel project of the coalition. Why have the conditions in the Telstra deal? Tony Abbott.

You're a little hard to stay respectful in replying to you trainspotter. You seem to have little respect for others.

 

[sptrawler]

Trainspotter, you the same as me think this is a stupid waste of money, as was the first home owners boost, home insulation boost, build a canteen boost, give me a solar boost, throw some money to China plasma t.v boost.
Actually the N.B.N is the only initiative that this government came up with that is still floating. That is after four years in government, it is just a sad indictment, rather than step back and reconsider the impost on future living standards. They plough on regardless because they are "committed" and you will just have to suck it up.
Actually not unlike the way the union works, and I have always been and still am a fully paid up union member. That would be 40years

 

[So_Cynical]

LOLOL ....... And you honestly expect this to happen? Delusional at best. Pie in the sky wankfest at worst. Spending the taxpayers dollars there dude, hardly investing at all.

TELSTRA'S $9 billion deal with the NBN Co could be settled as early as this week and will include break fees that could be worth more than $1 billion to protect shareholders should the $36bn rollout be abandoned or substantially revised in the future.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/bus...es-nbn-break-fee/story-e6frg8zx-1226073987329

If it so set in concrete of it's success then why would the Government agree to break fees then?



Not that hard now was it? If you are gonna sprout the stats please provide the links.




Bwahahaahahahhaaaaa *gasp* gagagagagaaaahahaha GAG ! I remember when they laid out the deep sewer ........ it was free as well to start with. It was YOUR cost to connect in, which is fine. After a while the people weren't connecting into the deep sewer so the Government MADE YOU PAY FOR IT even when you weren't connected TO FORCE YOU to connect. Internet banking was promoted the same way. NO FEES ... IT'S ALL FREE ........ yeah right !!!!!!!!!!

So we have all of these people with a box strapped to the side of their house and doing nuffin. YAY !!!!!!! That's sensible now isn't it !!!!



I want a Panadol for the crapola you are selling. CHUNKS !!!!!!!!!! :

View attachment 43244

= Tranny got PWNED...you got nothing but empty rhetoric and slogans of fear and confusion....alot like 1 vote Tony and the coalition.

Its just the inevitable Tranny, nothing to be afraid of.

 

[NBNMyths]

LOLOL ....... And you honestly expect this to happen? Delusional at best. Pie in the sky wankfest at worst. Spending the taxpayers dollars there dude, hardly investing at all.

OK, so why don't you think it will happen? There are only two real variables here, the cost could blow out, and/or the takeup won't hit 73%. We've already dealt with the likelihood of the takeup not being met, so that leaves the build cost blowout.

By all reports, the tenders for pretty much everything are going swimmingly now. Even if the cost of the fibre portion were to somehow blow out to 150% of the forecast (Incredibly unlikely given the contracts signed so far), that only takes the total from $36bn to $42bn. Hardly the end of the world, and I'd hazard a guess that it would keep the return above the bond rate. And that's still assuming that the conservative revenue predictions from the business case aren't exceeded.

So what exactly is your reasoning for expecting it not to meet expectations, apart from your personal dogmatic reasoning?

TELSTRA'S $9 billion deal with the NBN Co could be settled as early as this week and will include break fees that could be worth more than $1 billion to protect shareholders should the $36bn rollout be abandoned or substantially revised in the future.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/bus...es-nbn-break-fee/story-e6frg8zx-1226073987329

If it so set in concrete of it's success then why would the Government agree to break fees then?

That's easy. So if the Coalition get in in 2013 or 2016, and they want to try and cancel it, Telstra get compo. Part of the deal with Telstra is that they have to wear the cost of upgrading their pit and pipe where required for use by the NBN. Obviously, if they have spent that cash, then the NBN is cancelled, they will be out of pocket. MT will be spitting chips about that one. Thanks Telstra for being so diligent.

Bwahahaahahahhaaaaa *gasp* gagagagagaaaahahaha GAG ! I remember when they laid out the deep sewer ........ it was free as well to start with. It was YOUR cost to connect in, which is fine. After a while the people weren't connecting into the deep sewer so the Government MADE YOU PAY FOR IT even when you weren't connected TO FORCE YOU to connect. Internet banking was promoted the same way. NO FEES ... IT'S ALL FREE ........ yeah right !!!!!!!!!!

So we have all of these people with a box strapped to the side of their house and doing nuffin. YAY !!!!!!! That's sensible now isn't it !!!!

Yes, it's very sensible. Whether you like the NBN or not, refusing a free connection when it comes through it just plain stupid. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't be too happy about buying a house without a phone line running into it. Same for the NBN in 10 years time.

And when people refuse initially, then 18 months later the copper is switched off, and they are charged a NBN connection fee*, they will be the first ones whinging to Alan Jones about it.

* (Note that at this stage NBN haven't said they will charge for non-rollout connections, but I think that would be inevitable eventually. Telstra certainly do it. It's a waste of time and money to return and do it later, and the customer should be charged IMHO. What I would hope is that they have a first round of freebies during the rollout, then a second round of freebies just before the copper is decommissioned to pick up stragglers. Anything after that, bill 'em, Dano.)

The water and sewer are exceptions to the service charge rule. There's no service charge if you don't want a phone line, and there's no prospect of a service charge if you don't want an NBN connection.

 

[sptrawler]

Well trainspotter, the NBNMythdick is absolutely correct, at this point in time no one can dispute their statistics. However as time goes by the statistics become more accurate.
He is obviously connected and will become disconnected with the government.LOL

 

[drsmith]

It will run over budget and behind schedule and that's assuming the current government stays in power for the duration of the project which in itself is most unlikely.

Bedding down the biggest cost saving of all, Telstra's pipes and ducts, seems to be taking forever.

 

[medicowallet]

$36bn to $42bn. Hardly the end of the world,

Are you SURE you are not Wayne Swann??

Truly, a more stupid comment has never been made in the history of comments

 

[sptrawler]

It will run over budget and behind schedule and that's assuming the current government stays in power for the duration of the project which in itself is most unlikely.

Bedding down the biggest cost saving of all, Telstra's pipes and ducts, seems to be taking forever.

This is the whole problem, drsmith, how do you forcibly take back something you have sold for a huge profit and still try and appear moral.

 

[sptrawler]

NBNMyths, I don't want to get into a slanging match and all your posts I have given due respect for their accuracy. However the fact remains this will not in any way increase employment opportunities for my grandkids.
Australia can't compete with the world on a manufacturing base. We are increasingly using remote control for for our mining operations. Our retail is going down the toilet to internet purchasing.
Where are your kids going to work.
It goes back to do they need high speed internet or jobs. Like putting in a national L.N.G reticulation sytem, dams in the north supplying irrigation for food and work in the south. High speed rail infrastructure so the dependance on air travel is reduced, also giving a steady load to the electricity grid so renewables are feasable.
The problem is this N.B.N is premature a bit like the Tandy trs80 I bought with 16k of extended memory. LOL

 

[trainspotter]

When governments change, so can projects. There's no hard and fast 100% rules that says the next government has to complete the project. Those involved will want compensation though. Like the Opel project of the coalition. Why have the conditions in the Telstra deal? Tony Abbott.

You're a little hard to stay respectful in replying to you trainspotter. You seem to have little respect for others.

Thanks for pointing it out boofhead. Of all the posters in here you are the least likely to play the man. RESPECT.

 

[trainspotter]

= Tranny got PWNED...you got nothing but empty rhetoric and slogans of fear and confusion....alot like 1 vote Tony and the coalition.

Its just the inevitable Tranny, nothing to be afraid of.

Are you like 15 or something So_Cyclical? Go and play some more FPS games and occupy yourself in cyberland.

 

[trainspotter]

OK, so why don't you think it will happen? There are only two real variables here, the cost could blow out, and/or the takeup won't hit 73%. We've already dealt with the likelihood of the takeup not being met, so that leaves the build cost blowout.

By all reports, the tenders for pretty much everything are going swimmingly now. Even if the cost of the fibre portion were to somehow blow out to 150% of the forecast (Incredibly unlikely given the contracts signed so far), that only takes the total from $36bn to $42bn. Hardly the end of the world, and I'd hazard a guess that it would keep the return above the bond rate. And that's still assuming that the conservative revenue predictions from the business case aren't exceeded.

So what exactly is your reasoning for expecting it not to meet expectations, apart from your personal dogmatic reasoning?

The cost blowout for construction in rural areas can very easily be a telling factor. Not that long ago the tenders were way over budget constraints. Head of construction PATRICK Flannigan quit in a veil of secrecy. Tender process cancelled and then lo and behold Silcar to the rescue. I smell something fishy going on there !

Tell me what government (irrespective of colours) has EVER delivered on time and or budget? Some examples are Rail Link, BusWay, Border Protection, Hospitals, City Link, BER, Pink Batts ........ I could go on and on but am limited to the size of the reply to this post.

The other thing is if the Liberals/Coalition/Whatever get in to power and CANCEL the roll out due to budget constraints for the whole country .... THEN WHAT? The whole thing is in tatters. A few isolated go fast networks and for what? Because we needed to be competitive with South Korea?

That's easy. So if the Coalition get in in 2013 or 2016, and they want to try and cancel it, Telstra get compo. Part of the deal with Telstra is that they have to wear the cost of upgrading their pit and pipe where required for use by the NBN. Obviously, if they have spent that cash, then the NBN is cancelled, they will be out of pocket. MT will be spitting chips about that one. Thanks Telstra for being so diligent.

See my above response for this.

Yes, it's very sensible. Whether you like the NBN or not, refusing a free connection when it comes through it just plain stupid. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't be too happy about buying a house without a phone line running into it. Same for the NBN in 10 years time.

And when people refuse initially, then 18 months later the copper is switched off, and they are charged a NBN connection fee*, they will be the first ones whinging to Alan Jones about it.

* (Note that at this stage NBN haven't said they will charge for non-rollout connections, but I think that would be inevitable eventually. Telstra certainly do it. It's a waste of time and money to return and do it later, and the customer should be charged IMHO. What I would hope is that they have a first round of freebies during the rollout, then a second round of freebies just before the copper is decommissioned to pick up stragglers. Anything after that, bill 'em, Dano.)

Just like the Government to FORCE you into it to pay for it hence my original statement.

The other factor is if there is more of a downturn in global finances then the Government of the day will be toe cutting wherever it can to shore up it's dodgy bottom line. This will happen. The other thing that will happen is that "luxuries" will be the first thing to go ...... as in broadband.

 

[trainspotter]

When governments change, so can projects. There's no hard and fast 100% rules that says the next government has to complete the project. Those involved will want compensation though. Like the Opel project of the coalition. Why have the conditions in the Telstra deal? Tony Abbott.

You're a little hard to stay respectful in replying to you trainspotter. You seem to have little respect for others.

OPEL was cancelled by Labor BTW. I am pretty confident IF the Libs get in the first thing that will go down the **** shute will be the NBN. My response was mainly directed at NBNMyths who is espousing the benefits of the NBN as if it were the Holy Grail and completely untouchable. The word zealot springs to mind. :

 

[boofhead]

I didn't realise I said Coalition cancelled it. All I meant was it was a Coalition project. It is a project of one government that is cancelled by another. So a lot of why things are being setup and where things are rolled out are partly political. Makes it harder to unpick. A lot of votes in the cities - the type that have a lot of input in to newpapers, television and radio. It would be unpopular for city dwellers to have crappier internet than regional people.

I would have benefited from Opel only by having competing backhaul across Bass Strait although the prices are unknown and there may have been little end user difference in service or cost. NBN is way better for me as a consumer.

I can understand NBNMyths' enthusiasm. It isn't a continuation of the mish-mash of crap added on and it doesn't leave a lot of the population outside the major metropolitan areas left behind, like usual.

 

[trainspotter]

I didn't realise I said Coalition cancelled it. All I meant was it was a Coalition project. It is a project of one government that is cancelled by another. So a lot of why things are being setup and where things are rolled out are partly political. Makes it harder to unpick. A lot of votes in the cities - the type that have a lot of input in to newpapers, television and radio. It would be unpopular for city dwellers to have crappier internet than regional people.

I would have benefited from Opel only by having competing backhaul across Bass Strait although the prices are unknown and there may have been little end user difference in service or cost. NBN is way better for me as a consumer.

I can understand NBNMyths' enthusiasm. It isn't a continuation of the mish-mash of crap added on and it doesn't leave a lot of the population outside the major metropolitan areas left behind, like usual.

Thanks for the explanation. We are both on the same page on this one. A bit like in WA when the Lib Guvmint announced 38 million for a new hospital in the March budget and Labor got into power and took the credit for the hospital upgrade Samma samma Dong.

NBNMyths claimed there were only 2 things that would cause this thing to not meet expectations which were cost blow outs and low takeup rates. I was pointing out that if this nation building exercise is so gilt edged it would only take an unfriendly Guvmint to unravel the whole catastrophe by cancelling it to shore up the bottom line if necessary. The noises from the blue camp do not lead me to believe otherwise. Also if it is such a foregone conclusion then the powers that be would not agree to compensation on the Telstra dealing either.

Another flood or cyclone on the East Coast and what then? It is possible that money could be diverted to rebuild existing infrastructure rather than lay cable to a populace that does not understand the magnitude nor the capabilities of high speed internet via fibre optic cable. They have not exactly explained themsleves to convince Mr and Mrs average punter that this thing is the best thing to happen to them by a long shot.

I can understand NBNMyths enthusiasm for an NBN as well but methinks the snout is a little too far in the trough and cannot see the pitfalls. Either that or the brainwashing has worked too well. If both parties had agreed to the shiny blue cable and commited to the long haul programme then I don't see too much black smoke on the horizon. Unfortunately the previous examples set by both sides of politics on such major infrastructure contracts have not filled me with much confidence.

The NBN according to Deutsche Bank:-

But there is only a 45 per cent chance of the network proceeding as planned, according to a note from Deutsche Bank to clients.

This is based on a 50:50 chance of Labor losing the next election, scheduled for 2013, and the possibility of the Coalition scaling back the project (40 per cent chance) or the project being cancelled altogether (15 per cent chance).

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/bus...n-agreement-20110530-1fd13.html#ixzz0qu1mEOA7

 

[DB008]

NBN chief takes broad approach to truth

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/opinion/nbn-chief-takes-broad-approach-to-truth/story-e6frezz0-1226077720078

According to the US Department of Justice and Securities and Exchange commission, Acatel allegedly violated the US Foreign Corrupt Practices Act between 2001 and 2006 by paying millions of dollars in bribes to foreign officials in more than a dozen countries to win deals.

The Act prevents US firms from using bribery in foreign markets. It applies to US companies and foreign companies (such as Alcatel) which raise money or borrow in the US. Hundreds of companies and a far smaller number of individuals have been charged, most since 1998.

Corruption by Alcatel was initially exposed in the Costa Rican press in 2004 and investigated by local authorities.

Quigley was President of Alcatel Americas (including Latin America) from March 2001 to December 2002, President of Alcatel North America from January 2003 to April 2005, and Alcatel's President and Chief Operating Officer (or effective number two) from April 2005 to late 2006, when the merger with Lucent occurred. He left Alcatel-Lucent in August 2007. Quigley became NBN Co's CEO in July 2009.

Beaufret joined Alcatel as Deputy Chief Financial Officer in late 1999 and became Chief Financial Officer in 2002.

He left in November 2007. Beaufret became NBN Co's CFO in September 2009.

 

[DB008]

Former Telstra executive Phil Burgess slams NBN

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/business/former-telstra-executive-phil-burgess-slams-nbn/story-e6frede3-1226077276035

TELSTRA'S broadband network would be cheaper than the NBN and could have been finished already, a former executive says.

With his characteristic charisma and bombast, Phil Burgess launched a full-on attack on the Federal Government and the competition regulator for "renationalising the telecommunications network" and stymieing Telstra's own plans to build an NBN.

Mr Burgess, who was speaking at a business lunch in Adelaide yesterday, was one of former Telstra chief executive Sol Trujillo's so-called "three Amigos" who he brought in to help run the company in 2002.

Mr Burgess, a guest of Carnegie Mellon University, yesterday railed against the idea of a government-owned monopoly building and owning the NBN.

A key criticism was the fact that providers such as Telstra and Optus were not allowed to compete with the NBN in metropolitan areas over their already-established cable networks.

 

[Glen48]

Nothing wrong with the NBN 1/2 of OZ will be able to sit at home soon surfing for pr0n , horoscopes, gambling etc at high speed while they wait for their dole payment to go in the bank a lot quicker.

 

[todster]

Nothing wrong with the NBN 1/2 of OZ will be able to sit at home soon surfing for pr0n , horoscopes, gambling etc at high speed while they wait for their dole payment to go in the bank a lot quicker.

Lol no need for that where you live.

 

[NBNMyths]

NBN chief takes broad approach to truth

Yep, if you want objective, accurate reporting, look no further than Piers Akerman. What a despicable fat old slimebag he is.

Personality aside, the irony of his complaint about Quigley allegedly failing to reveal the whole truth is absolutely breathtaking, considering all the pertinent facts he decided to omit from his blog, and the inaccuracies within.

Nobody is claiming that Quigley or Beaufret knew of, approved or in any way were involved in the bribery. While 3 of the countries involved were at some stages under the Americas region Quigley administered, the sham consultants worldwide were the product of Alcatel Standard based in Switzerland, which reported through Europe (outside Quigley's region).

The closest anyone has come to such a claim is Pier's story, which I would suggest is on the knife edge of being libellous. I would hope there are some very highly paid lawyers looking it over right now.

Anyway, I digress.

The SEC didn't even seek to question either of them during their investigation into Alcatel, and they are not named in any SEC documents. There is absolutely no evidence implicating them in anything. Despite extensive digging no-one has been able to find any, no doubt to the chagrin of Turnbull et al. The whole incident is a coalition attempt to play the man instead of the ball in their attempt to derail the project. Piers (as the self-appointed mouthpiece of everything right-wing) is only too happy to aid the smear.

I think the AFR's David Crowe sums the whole thing up quite well:

http://www.afr.com/p/business/technology/hint_of_mccarthyism_in_coalition_gpkarfG0Zr1dhRO0qzes6J

The Coalition sought to justify its concerns about Quigley by spending much of the evening looking into the bribery at his former employer, Alcatel.

It was a pointless effort. Nothing emerged to suggest that Quigley knew of the bribery, was involved in it, was somehow at fault for not doing anything about it or was to blame in any other way for the affair.

Quigley apologised again for suggesting weeks ago that he had not been responsible for Alcatel’s operations in Costa Rica, where many of the bribes were paid. As the head of Alcatel Americas for several years, he should have known what he was responsible for.

That simple error is hardly the stuff of scandal. Yet for all the digging into Quigley’s past, that mistake is the biggest single revelation to emerge from the Australian end of the bribery affair.
...
Nothing that has emerged casts any doubt on Quigley’s competence in running the NBN. The bribery was real but nobody suggests Quigley was involved in it. So why keep digging?

At some point the exercise stops being a valid line of questioning and turns into a witch-hunt. There’s a good argument that the point has already passed. In any case, it makes sense for the Coalition to stop.

It's a pity, because from all reports Mike Quigley is a very good man, who rose from being a cadet at STC in Sydney to being 2IC at one of the World's largest multinational communication companies. He fought and beat cancer, twice, and donated his entire $2M first year's salary to Australian cancer researchers. But us Australians love nothing better than cutting those tall poppies down to size, facts and consequences be damned.

This from Renai LeMay:
http://delimiter.com.au/2011/05/17/in-defence-of-an-honourable-man/

Overall, Quigley has been nothing less than honest and straightforward in all of his public dealings — more so than almost any other high-profile executive, politician or bureaucrat in my experience, with the exception of a handful — Defence chief information officer Greg Farr being one notable example of a similar man of impeccable character.

With all this in mind, what are we to make of the constant and incessant attacks on Quigley’s character?

We should publicly label them as vile treachery being perpetuated on an honourable man.

We should publicly label them as the abandonment of any pretense of civilised debate over the NBN policy by those who have tried desperately but have failed to oppose the NBN on reasonable, honourable grounds (of which there are still many) and are now resorting to last gasp dirty tricks.

We should label them as the hallmark of those who have abandoned their own honour in our cynical society and seek to bring down all those around them who will not abandon theirs.

It is completely legitimate to debate the merits of the NBN policy; like many others, I myself have been a long-term critic of the project, particularly its economic model. But it is not legitimate to link an innocent man with bribery and corruption charges simply to serve those ends. As Australians, we should be ashamed to do so, and we should not tolerate the vilification and defamation of an honourable man in this fashion.

I had thought it wasn't possible, but reading Pier's pathetic smear yesterday lowered my opinion of him even further.