NBN Rollout Scrapped

[trainspotter]

It will be dismissed as some sort of unobtainable "voodoo technology" by NBNMyths no doubt. Anyone that has a valid statement against the NBN is automatically categorised as screaming heretics and neophytes.

 

[NBNMyths]

Are you sure about this?

I was of the understanding that there have been some significant scientific discoveries/breakthroughs over the past few decades that would appear to presage the advent of superior (in terms of speed and infrastructure size) data transmission technology.

Perhaps you could put the "rose coloured" optics aside for a moment and perform an exhaustive investigation first, rather than automatically fending off the various challenges to the wisdom of NBN policy with such bold statements about "future-proof" data transmission technology.

When I read this, I though you were serious and I was all ready to write a nice, factual response. Then I read this.....

Discoveries regarding quantum entanglement appear to suggest that seemingly "instantaneous" data transmission is achievable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_entanglement

.... and now am pretty sure you're either having a shot, or have just been watching too many episodes of Fringe.


ROFL....Quantum Entanglement! Yep, I'm sure that commercial technology that violates Einstein's theory of relativity is only just around the corner.

 

[trainspotter]

It will only take one geeky kid or technoboffin to write a code that can decompress data into bite size chunks to change this story. There was an Australian guy who invented an engine that was 50% lighter and 30% more fuel efficient. A fuel company bought it so bye bye technology. Sarich was his name.

Whatever happened to this startling breakthrough?

“The scratched glass we’ve developed is actually a Photonic Integrated Circuit,” he explained in a University of Sydney statement. “This circuit uses the ‘scratch’ as a guide or a switching path for information -- kind of like when trains are switched from one track to another -- except this switch takes only one picosecond to change tracks.

“This means that in one second the switch is turning on and off about one million times,” he added. “We are talking about photonic technology that has terabit per second capacity.”

An initial demonstration of the photonic technology has revealed it as capable of providing speeds around 60 times faster than today’s networks, which rely on electric switching, but the team is confident that further development will glean even quicker performance.

http://www.thetechherald.com/articl...ircuit-sends-internet-speeds-through-the-roof

 

[IFocus]

It will only take one geeky kid or technoboffin to write a code that can decompress data into bite size chunks to change this story. There was an Australian guy who invented an engine that was 50% lighter and 30% more fuel efficient. A fuel company bought it so bye bye technology. Sarich was his name.

Whatever happened to this startling breakthrough?



http://www.thetechherald.com/articl...ircuit-sends-internet-speeds-through-the-roof

Sarich made I think $500 million and didn't produce a engine? I don't think ASIC would let him get away with that to day.

The orbital engine was invented in 1972 by Ralph Sarich, an engineer from Perth, Australia, who worked on the concept for years without ever producing a production engine. A prototype was demonstrated, running on the bench with no load. The engine can run on compressed air or steam. The engine does not need oil to run at all. It produces very high revs. It has only one moving part which can be run as a pump.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbital_engine

The real issue isn't that we will all move over to wireless for BB as mobile devices will / are going to crowd out the available spectrum anyway which will become a issue for BB users.

 

[NBNMyths]

It will only take one geeky kid or technoboffin to write a code that can decompress data into bite size chunks to change this story. There was an Australian guy who invented an engine that was 50% lighter and 30% more fuel efficient. A fuel company bought it so bye bye technology. Sarich was his name.

Whatever happened to this startling breakthrough?

http://www.thetechherald.com/articl...ircuit-sends-internet-speeds-through-the-roof

Thanks IPfocus for the Sarich stuff. +1. Additionally, the conspiracy theory that an oil company bought the patent and shelved it has been around for a while, but I've never seen any actual evidence of it. Even if true though, the patent expired over 15 years ago, so if the engine actually worked, then there's been nothing stopping it being developed for well over a decade. Me thinks that Ralph's baby was not so good as he claimed it was....

On the other points...

Any mythical future super-data-compression system could just as easily be applied to fibre as well as copper or wireless, so would only serve to increase the gap between fibre and the rest.

Also, I'm not sure that you actually read the article you linked to about the new switching tech. Here, let me quote a bit for you:

According to Professor Eggleton, whose scientific team beat its own deadline for completion by a full year in developing the new circuit technology, the recent advancement of optical fibre delivery has meant that online data has the capacity to travel at much greater speeds than those currently achieved, which is where the scratched glass comes into play.

Let me translate: To use this great new tech we have discovered, you need optical fibre. Just like Alan Jones' "Laserbeam" technology from a couple of weeks ago. In fact, Jones would probably be right onto this great new photonics technology....

Since the current bottleneck is the "last mile" of copper from exchange to house, any advancements such as this that benefit the optical fibre portion of the networks won't produce any improvements in the speeds people can get, since it's limited by the DSL portion of the network.

And you wondered what happened to this idea? Well, the Fed Govt is funding the group's research: http://www.usyd.edu.au/news/science/397.html?newsstoryid=6795

Quite ironic that you've quoted a leading researcher in photonics and strong supporter of the NBN as somehow being evidence that it's not a good thing.

Are there any more technical articles supporting Fibre or the NBN you'd like to produce? Makes my job here much easier.

 

[boofhead]

Discoveries regarding quantum entanglement appear to suggest that seemingly "instantaneous" data transmission is achievable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_entanglement

How long until working systems will be implemented?

Have you checked out what production systems using anything quantum use? USA based company has started selling quantum computing devices. http://www.dwavesys.com/en/dw_homepage.html and check out the cooling required!

 

[Knobby22]

Quantam entanglement is real but lets face it, very difficult to do.
Some people say it could be used for transportation (beam me up Scotty) but getting two electrons to act the same way under laboratory conditions is VERY different to getting billions of molecules to act together. Besides quantam theory is very weird stuff.

From Neils Bohr, the founder of this branch of physics:

"For those who are not shocked when they first come across quantum theory cannot possibly have understood it."

 

[trainspotter]

Thanks IPfocus for the Sarich stuff. +1. Additionally, the conspiracy theory that an oil company bought the patent and shelved it has been around for a while, but I've never seen any actual evidence of it. Even if true though, the patent expired over 15 years ago, so if the engine actually worked, then there's been nothing stopping it being developed for well over a decade. Me thinks that Ralph's baby was not so good as he claimed it was....

On the other points...

Any mythical future super-data-compression system could just as easily be applied to fibre as well as copper or wireless, so would only serve to increase the gap between fibre and the rest.

Also, I'm not sure that you actually read the article you linked to about the new switching tech. Here, let me quote a bit for you:

According to Professor Eggleton, whose scientific team beat its own deadline for completion by a full year in developing the new circuit technology, the recent advancement of optical fibre delivery has meant that online data has the capacity to travel at much greater speeds than those currently achieved, which is where the scratched glass comes into play.

Let me translate: To use this great new tech we have discovered, you need optical fibre. Just like Alan Jones' "Laserbeam" technology from a couple of weeks ago. In fact, Jones would probably be right onto this great new photonics technology....

Since the current bottleneck is the "last mile" of copper from exchange to house, any advancements such as this that benefit the optical fibre portion of the networks won't produce any improvements in the speeds people can get, since it's limited by the DSL portion of the network.

And you wondered what happened to this idea? Well, the Fed Govt is funding the group's research: http://www.usyd.edu.au/news/science/397.html?newsstoryid=6795

Quite ironic that you've quoted a leading researcher in photonics and strong supporter of the NBN as somehow being evidence that it's not a good thing.

Are there any more technical articles supporting Fibre or the NBN you'd like to produce? Makes my job here much easier.

Hahahahahhaaaa ...... your sabbatical at Camp Conroy has given you all the answers now hasn't it. You have also forgotten that I am not against the technology. I have written I am all for it when it is placed in the right areas first The link I provided was to evidence that there is technology to be invented yet that could make other/existing technology redundant. Also why I played the Sarich card as well. You keeping up yet?

1) If Sarich's engine was never a goer why did a petrochem company buy it then? The Wiki link that IFocus provided says he sold it to them? Sarich made his money out of the shares he sold in the company and used it to buy Perth CBD Property. DOH ! Do you actually comprehend what you are reading?

2) Alan Jones is a paid vox pop. Not a scientist. Not a Laser Professor either. Ummmmm did you actually READ the date on the link I provided? "great new photonics technology...." you called it. The article was written on the Jul 10 2008, 10:34am. I was asking WHERE IS IT USED NOW ???? Fibre has been around for 30 years !!!! You highlighted the part you wanted where it states "the recent advancement of optical fibre delivery has meant that online data has the capacity to travel at much greater speeds than those currently achieved" WHERE IS THE SCRATCHED GLASS COMING INTO PLAY THEN?? We all know that fibre optic cable is faster then copper. The scratched glass was supposed to be changing the EXISTING SWITCHES that is causing the lag time according to the article. I reiterate ...... did you actually read this or just cherry pick so you can go on the attack?

Are there any more technical articles supporting Fibre or the NBN you'd like to produce? Makes my job here much easier.

Hung yourself with your own tongue on this one "Champion" Which "job" is that exactly old ****? To re-educate the neophytes to bend to the will of the shiny blue cable? Rome burns and Nero fiddles again.

P.S. Read the article again. Replace the switches with photonic switch technology. NOWHERE does it state fibre optic cable is the key to the solution.

An initial demonstration of the photonic technology has revealed it as capable of providing speeds around 60 times faster than today’s networks, which rely on electric switching, but the team is confident that further development will glean even quicker performance.

 

[NBNMyths]

Hahahahahhaaaa ...... your sabbatical at Camp Conroy has given you all the answers now hasn't it. You have also forgotten that I am not against the technology. I have written I am all for it when it is placed in the right areas first The link I provided was to evidence that there is technology to be invented yet that could make other/existing technology redundant.

And my point is that all these breakthrough technologies are base on a fibreoptic network.

1) If Sarich's engine was never a goer why did a petrochem company buy it then? The Wiki link that IFocus provided says he sold it to them?

Did they? Got a ref? Note that the article doesn't give a reference for the supposed purchase of the patent. The ref is just the patent itself. Also, as I wrote, the patent expired 15 years ago, yet no orbital engines have made it anywhere.

2) Alan Jones is a paid vox pop. Not a scientist. Not a Laser Professor either. Ummmmm did you actually READ the date on the link I provided? "great new photonics technology...." you called it. The article was written on the Jul 10 2008, 10:34am. I was asking WHERE IS IT USED NOW ???? Fibre has been around for 30 years !!!! You highlighted the part you wanted where it states "the recent advancement of optical fibre delivery has meant that online data has the capacity to travel at much greater speeds than those currently achieved" WHERE IS THE SCRATCHED GLASS COMING INTO PLAY THEN?? We all know that fibre optic cable is faster then copper. The scratched glass was supposed to be changing the EXISTING SWITCHES that is causing the lag time according to the article. I reiterate ...... did you actually read this or just cherry pick so you can go on the attack?

I guess you didn't get my sarcasm. I'll try to be more obvious in future.

No, Jones is not a scientist. If only he'd realise that himself, before passing his laughable interpretations off as fact.

I have no idea if the tech is in use, or what stage the research is at. Believe it or not, the success of an experiment doesn't instantly send that system into production. I guess that's why the lab received ongoing funding for their photonic switching technologies last year? Alcatel demonstrated 100Pbps/km fibre optics in 2009, but commercially they are still at 100Gbps. It takes time to commercialise these things. Surely, you can understand that?

But if you want to know, why not send the good professor an email. I'm sure he'd be quite happy to enlighten you as to their progress.

Hung yourself with your own tongue on this one "Champion" Which "job" is that exactly old ****? To re-educate the neophytes to bend to the will of the shiny blue cable?

Yes, that's the one. The job I have to ensure truth, justice and the Australian way when it comes to dispelling ridiculous myths surrounding the NBN. Oh, and just in case you're implying that by 'job' I meant a paid or otherwise directed position to perform such a role, you should be on the Australian Olympic archery team if you can draw a bow that long.

P.S. Read the article again. Replace the switches with photonic switch technology. NOWHERE does it state fibre optic cable is the key to the solution.

What do you think photonics is? Maybe you should look it up. The reason glass etching works is because it is light switching light, instead of electrical current doing so. ie, optical data transmission ie, optical fibre.

 

[trainspotter]

Yes, that's the one. The job I have to ensure truth, justice and the Australian way when it comes to dispelling ridiculous myths surrounding the NBN. Oh, and just in case you're implying that by 'job' I meant a paid or otherwise directed position to perform such a role, you should be on the Australian Olympic archery team if you can draw a bow that long.

Bwaahahhhahahhahahahhaaaa *gasp* hahahhahhahaahqaaaaaaggagagaa ...... So now you are a superhero? Truth, justice and the Austalian way !! You have got to be kidding me man. You have some serious issues I think you should look at. This by the way is an internet forum where people can have an opinion that differs from yours. So who appointed you to make this your "JOB" then? Yourself?

And what exactly is your "JOB" in here then other than flying around wearing a red cape and your underpants on the outside, Ohhhhhhhhhhh thats right, educating us neophytes on the benefits of a shiny blue cable!

No ridiculous myths as to why they would not release a business case model then?

Methinks you have made a Freudian slip old ****. Hand in the cookie jar for mine.

Your "JOB" ...... LOL

P.S. Send an email to Alan Jones ..... I am sure he will want to hear your point of view as well. Afterall ...... he gets paid for his job.

 

[todster]

Bwaahahhhahahhahahahhaaaa *gasp* hahahhahhahaahqaaaaaaggagagaa ...... So now you are a superhero? Truth, justice and the Austalian way !! You have got to be kidding me man. You have some serious issues I think you should look at. This by the way is an internet forum where people can have an opinion that differs from yours. So who apointed you to make this your "JOB" then? Yourself?

And what exactly is your "JOB" in here then other than flying around wearing a red cape and your underpants on the outside, Ohhhhhhhhhhh thats right, educating us neophytes on the benefits of a shiny blue cable!

No ridiculous myths as to why they would not release a business case model then?

Methinks you have made a Freudian slip old ****. Hand in the cookie jar for mine.

Your "JOB" ...... LOL

P.S. Send an email to Alan Jones ..... I am sure he will want to hear your point of view as well. Afterall ...... he gets paid for his job.

Your just digging a bigger hole for yourself,put the bottle down and go to bed.

 

[trainspotter]

Your just digging a bigger hole for yourself,put the bottle down and go to bed.

You of all people can see this folding out in front of you todster?

Truth, justice and the Australian Waaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyy ........ up up and awayyyyyyyy! You have got to be kidding me !!!!!!!!

MAKES MY JOB HERE MUCH EASIER

NBNMyths on a roll.

 

[todster]

You of all people can see this folding out in front of you todster?

Truth, justice and the Australian Waaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyy ........ up up and awayyyyyyyy! You have got to be kidding me !!!!!!!!

NBNMyths on a roll.

Mate if he's/she's not working for them they should employ him/her.(might be Penny wong)

 

[So_Cynical]

I just watched an amazing video of a new PC and console game that's going to be released soon called Battlefield 3 (BF3) the game features stunning graphics and Multiplayer servers capable of hosting 64 player games, the amount of bandwidth and low ping's required to have quality play is reliant on capable hardware and fast, high quality internet connections, as an example of where the gaming world is going have a look at the video in full screen HD and imagine what the future holds if this is the reality now....this is 1 reason why need the NBN.
~

 

[cynic]

How long until working systems will be implemented?

Are you really asking me to commit a scientist to a specific deadline?

The potential intelligence and military applications of this new technology are likely to prove to be compelling incentives for certain nations to get on board, so my best guess is that it will happen in my current lifetime!

Have you checked out what production systems using anything quantum use? USA based company has started selling quantum computing devices. http://www.dwavesys.com/en/dw_homepage.html and check out the cooling required!

No - I haven't checked out these systems. As for the cooling required, I believe Edison also had some significant challenges when he invented his first electric light bulb. Mankind still managed to surmount these early obstacles way back then - so why not now?

 

[cynic]

When I read this, I though you were serious and I was all ready to write a nice, factual response. Then I read this.....

.... and now am pretty sure you're either having a shot, or have just been watching too many episodes of Fringe.


ROFL....Quantum Entanglement! Yep, I'm sure that commercial technology that violates Einstein's theory of relativity is only just around the corner.

Am I to understand that you are suggesting that commercial applications of Quantum Entanglement violate Einstein's Theory of Relativity? (If so, I'd love to hear your explanation/justification on this! Pray, do tell?)

 

[NBNMyths]

Bwaahahhhahahhahahahhaaaa *gasp* hahahhahhahaahqaaaaaaggagagaa ...... So now you are a superhero? Truth, justice and the Austalian way !! You have got to be kidding me man. You have some serious issues I think you should look at. This by the way is an internet forum where people can have an opinion that differs from yours. So who appointed you to make this your "JOB" then? Yourself?

And what exactly is your "JOB" in here then other than flying around wearing a red cape and your underpants on the outside, Ohhhhhhhhhhh thats right, educating us neophytes on the benefits of a shiny blue cable!

Methinks you have made a Freudian slip old ****. Hand in the cookie jar for mine.

Your "JOB" ...... LOL

P.S. Send an email to Alan Jones ..... I am sure he will want to hear your point of view as well. Afterall ...... he gets paid for his job.

You of all people can see this folding out in front of you todster?

Truth, justice and the Australian Waaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyy ........ up up and awayyyyyyyy! You have got to be kidding me !!!!!!!!

NBNMyths on a roll.

It appears my sense of humour is beyond you. I'll remind myself to be entirely boring in future.

No ridiculous myths as to why they would not release a business case model then?

You mean like this one?
http://www.nbnco.com.au/wps/wcm/con...-announcements/nbn-co-corporate-plan-released

 

[NBNMyths]

Am I to understand that you are suggesting that commercial applications of Quantum Entanglement violate Einstein's Theory of Relativity?

On my understanding, yes.
eg: http://www.pacoahlgren.com/does-quantum-entanglement-destroy-the-theory-of-relativity/

Wait a minute. Didn’t Einstein say the universal speed limit is bound by light? So what’s going on? The answer: nobody knows. Even Einstein was befuddled by quantum entanglement. But the ramifications are clear ”” if it’s possible for any element in nature to transmit data (or force, or whatever) instantaneously ”” and the phenomenon of quantum entanglement has been firmly established scientifically – then Special Relativity either needs to make an exception, or it needs to be remodeled in a big way.​

My point is that data transmission by quantum entanglement hasn't even been established experimentally, so the chances that it will be:
a) discovered; and
b) verified; and
c) developed; and
d) commercialised

....sometime on the foreseeable future is highly implausible.

Saying we shouldn't build the NBN because of an unproven theorem is like saying we should all give up on cars, planes, trains etc from now on, because teleportation via quantum entanglement might be just around the corner.

 

[trainspotter]

I just watched an amazing video of a new PC and console game that's going to be released soon called Battlefield 3 (BF3) the game features stunning graphics and Multiplayer servers capable of hosting 64 player games, the amount of bandwidth and low ping's required to have quality play is reliant on capable hardware and fast, high quality internet connections, as an example of where the gaming world is going have a look at the video in full screen HD and imagine what the future holds if this is the reality now....this is 1 reason why need the NBN.
~

So we build an NBN so 64 people can play HD Games? Ummmmmmm I don't get it??

I am trying to look at it with an open mind So_Cyclical. Ummmmmmm what about training an army to shoot with FPS games? You could put on Gran Tourismo 5 and do driving lessons for 64 people. After that ya pretty much got me flummoxed.

I can see the NBN used as a great business tool for companies that require high speed internet such as the CSIRO or ATO or the Big Banks due to the volume of information crunched. I can see some smaller companies like photolabs/multi media etc gaining benefits due to the file size of their work. Schools for education and Hospitals for radiography etc are a given.

I can see the wondrous things the NBN is going to do for the country, I truly can. The problem for me is the implementation strategy. Build it where it is needed most FIRST, iron out the bugs in high density areas THEN with a higher takeup rate PAYING for it "going forward" send it to the country and high cost areas.

Not that hard really.

 

[ghotib]

Is this a myth? It's from another board I frequent. The writer is somewhere in northern NSW on a "crappy Sat. connection":

To compound my connectivity frustration, I see with the NBN, those of us on small rural phone exchanges will get shafted. My neighbours on ADSL will have to move to Sat. with approx 10x less service delivery then that available to those with fibre. Fark knows what we'll do for telephony when they cease support for the copper lines, smoke signals ? Once again, we small rural areas get the rough end of the pineapple in terms of services.

FWIW, at the moment we live within a hundred miles of Sydney, Wollongong, and Canberra and we have no access to ADSL. Last time our neighbours talked to Telstra about how they could improve their internet service Telstra told them they shouldn't expect any better because they're in the outback. Our wireless broadband is faster than their satellite, but speed is noticeably variable and files bigger than about 20Mb (e.g. many software upgrades) often fail to download completely.

Thanks for any info:

Ghoti