NBN Rollout Scrapped

[So_Cynical]

I want a Ferrari too, but don't want to pay for it. Hence I don't have one.

But you do have some very nice expensive roads to drive on if you choose to buy a Ferrari, Govt's have build those expensive roads to meet the basic needs of society.

Australian society needs a new telecommunications/internet backbone and Govt is delivering that, how you choose to use that backbone is up to you.

Governments make the big decisions for us, that allows us to then make decisions about how we use what results form there decisions....they build a road, we choose our mode of transport.

 

[drsmith]

I want a Ferrari too, but don't want't to pay for it. Hence I don't have one.

A Ferrari levy will fix that.

We may eny up not being able to afford electricity though.

 

[wayneL]

But you do have some very nice expensive roads to drive on if you choose to buy a Ferrari, Govt's have build those expensive roads to meet the basic needs of society.

Australian society needs a new telecommunications/internet backbone and Govt is delivering that, how you choose to use that backbone is up to you.

Governments make the big decisions for us, that allows us to then make decisions about how we use what results form there decisions....they build a road, we choose our mode of transport.

I don't recall any problems with my internet access when in Aus.

I've used superfast BB overseas and didn't notice any difference from my point of view.

I don't want autobahns for suburban streets.

Cost/benefit does not add up.

 

[trainspotter]

The way forward (MEIN GOTT you are a card carrying communist bleating the Party Line) was always a choice between patching up what we have (the cheap nasty coalition option) or building a new backbone using the latest technology (Expensive NBN) i reckon we are better off embracing change and going with the new expensive technology...but that's me and how i think...the ASF right and other coalition supporters here think differently, coalition supporters in general seem to be a little unwilling to pay.

Coalition supporters want fast and reliable broadband but don't want the expensive new NBN. Nope .... happy to have an NBN but not for the detriment of the country fiscally. Use the existing infrastructure that Telstra provides. Only a million in Melbourne people have 100mbps already PLUS Foxtel. Derrrrrrrrrrr

Coalition supporters want to help flood victims but don't want to pay a levy Nope ... have already helped the flood victims by donation of money. I have given more than enough in taxes and watched this government squander it on ridiculous and costly schisms. They can't even build a school hall or put pink batts into a roof efficiently.

Coalition supporters want to help the environment and reduce GHG's but don't want to pay higher utility bills. Hey wait a minute ???? all those billions spent on pink batts were supposed to REDUCE our energy bills by making our houses solar eficcient BULLSH!T, did that work So_Cylical??

One could be left with the impression that coalition supports want good things to happen...just they don't want to actually pay for them.

Answers are in RED ....... one of your favourite colours So_Cyclical.

 

[noco]

Who said we don't want it :dunno: i am a part of we and i want it....i mean seriously who doesn't want ultra fast, latest technology broadband, com-on how many people are reading this right now using a dial up connection or even DSL1? the answer is very few and that's because technology changes and as a society we want the fastest and the best....and the providers want to gives us that...problem is the infrastructure is dated and at breaking point and cannot continue to deliver the higher speeds and content loads required into the future.

The way forward was always a choice between patching up what we have (the cheap nasty coalition option) or building a new backbone using the latest technology (Expensive NBN) i reckon we are better off embracing change and going with the new expensive technology...but that's me and how i think...the ASF right and other coalition supporters here think differently, coalition supporters in general seem to be a little unwilling to pay.

Coalition supporters want fast and reliable broadband but don't want the expensive new NBN

Coalition supporters want to help flood victims but don't want to pay a levy

Coalition supporters want to help the environment and reduce GHG's but don't want to pay higher utility bills.

One could be left with the impression that coalition supports want good things to happen...just they don't want to actually pay for them.

I think for a start this disfunctional Government needs to get their priorities in order and the NBN should take back stage to allow our money to be spent on improved highways flood free and without potholes. For the past month our roads in North Queensland have been cut on numerous occassions due to two cyclones and excessive rain falls. The money wasted on HOME INSULATION,BER and other hare brain Labor Government Green schemes, the excessive Foreign aid to third world countries who rort the system and the $599 million given to the Climate change in Cancun Mexico could have gone a long way to improving the road connections for essential items to feed North Queensland towns.

We don't need the NBN. We don't need free home insulation. In most cases we could have done without many of Julia Gillard's memorial school halls. We don't need these useless subsidised renewable energy schemes.

It's all about mooooooving forrrrrrrward with the essentials.

PRIORITIES....PRIORITIES....PRIORITIES.

SO_Cynical, do you understand the meaning of PRIORITIES? If you don't, well you are more dense than I thought you were.

 

[Logique]

For the past month our roads in North Queensland have been cut on numerous occassions due to two cyclones and excessive rain falls. The money wasted on HOME INSULATION,BER and other hare brain Labor Government Green schemes, the excessive Foreign aid to third world countries who rort the system and the $599 million given to the Climate change in Cancun Mexico could have gone a long way to improving the road connections for essential items to feed North Queensland towns.

What Noco said.
Don't have the privilege of being a QLD'er but we've sure had QLD temps down here the last week. 42C yesterday, give me strength.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

Aitkenvale and Mundingburra...looks like 100% coverage to me, everything has to start somewhere GG and Townsvilles NBN experience is starting in
Aitkenvale and Mundingburra.

http://www.nbnco.com.au/wps/wcm/con...ERES&CACHEID=f50deb0043d0e318826782fcbbdbc23d

Both those suburbs are full of DINK's and ex Labor or presently Labor politicians and hangers-on.

Not a worker amongst them.

gg

 

[Julia]

What would really be worth doing would be to put all the electricity connections underground so that every time there's a storm, people are not left without power, often for weeks.

Obviously this would be a massive undertaking. Anyone have any thoughts about how feasible it would be?

Would the funds going to the NBN be sufficient to cover doing underground power?

I have no idea about the technology, but for that matter could the NBN connections and the electricity be put underground together?

Smurf, you're the expert on this stuff. Is something along these lines at all feasible?

 

[IFocus]

The Perth to Mandurah rail line was supported by both sides of WA state politics with the only difference being the route.

Nope....... liberals were dead against it based on cost and lack of usage, Richard Court led the charge then relented to run it to Rockingham via Kenwick but not Mandurah. The extra to Mandurah was a cost of $20mil I think

The original proposed route branched from the Armadale Line at Kenwick, and then ran alongside the freight lines until Jandakot where it would run in the middle of the Kwinana Freeway. However, a bill passed in November 2002 after a change of state government saw that the route would start at Perth, traverse the Kwinana Freeway, and then continue along its initial route after Jandakot.[3] This second route was much more direct, and allowed through services with the Joondalup Line.

They attacked Alana relentlessly, remember the boring machine problems, Richard Court went as so far as to run down the barriers they built along the freeway saying they were not high enough.

Mandurah rail cost

The recently completed Mandurah line in Perth is 70km long, and cost $960 million in 2006/07 dollars. The whole New Metro Rail project cost over $1.4 billion, but included numerous other works and the purchase of a fleet of trains. The Mandurah line has 11 stations, two of which are underground, which are included in the $960 million cost. Per km, Mandurah cost $13.7 million, including 11 stations and an underground section.

As with any large public project there was plenty of criticism around but Alana got it over the line, like I miss Keating from Federal politics I miss Alana from state politics.

Living down here I remember it well.

 

[bellenuit]

The Perth to Mandurah rail line had almost the exact same language used against it BTW the out come after it was built.........it has the highest usage of any line in Perth.

That is not an apt technology comparison. The Perth to Mandurah line is more comparable to a fibre backbone network linking major nodes, something I think is part of the coalition plan, but if not, it should be.

The NBN as proposed is comparable to running a high speed rail link to every home. Too costly and wasteful.

There is no doubt that a fast link is better than a slow link, all else being equal. But mobile access is also better than fixed access, all else being equal. The issue is whether fixed access on extremely fast links at extremely high cost is better than mobile access on not as fast links at moderate cost.

The government is betting on the former using our money when all indications are the industry is moving towards the latter.

 

[So_Cynical]

What would really be worth doing would be to put all the electricity connections underground so that every time there's a storm, people are not left without power, often for weeks.

Obviously this would be a massive undertaking. Anyone have any thoughts about how feasible it would be?

Would the funds going to the NBN be sufficient to cover doing underground power?

Interesting point Julia...sounds like you are unaware of a small movement of concerned citizens that have long lobbied Govt's to replace overhead power with under ground on the premise of making our roads safer....ill quote a NSW RTA document so you get the general idea.

In NSW, over the five year period from 2004 to 2008 there were 100,068 casualty crashes resulting in 2,347 fatalities and 126,929 injuries. Of the 100,068 casualty crashes, 21,356 (21%) involved a collision with a fixed roadside object. During this period 3,972 casualty crashes involved an impact with a utility pole which is 19% of the casualty crashes with fixed objects. These crashes resulted in 171 deaths and 5,060 injuries.

http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/roadsafety/downloads/reducing_trauma_utility_poles.pdf

Interesting in that other than research, nothing been done about it even thou there is a pretty solid argument for utility pole removal on safety grounds.

 

[So_Cynical]

That is not an apt technology comparison. The Perth to Mandurah line is more comparable to a fibre backbone network linking major nodes, something I think is part of the coalition plan, but if not, it should be.

The NBN as proposed is comparable to running a high speed rail link to every home. Too costly and wasteful.

There is no doubt that a fast link is better than a slow link, all else being equal. But mobile access is also better than fixed access, all else being equal. The issue is whether fixed access on extremely fast links at extremely high cost is better than mobile access on not as fast links at moderate cost.

The government is betting on the former using our money when all indications are the industry is moving towards the latter.

A brilliant mobile network is absolutely dependant on a brilliant fixed network..what's the point of a perfect back bone that doesn't go to the home that's what Telstra did to us for 25 years!....you wouldn't build a gravel road to access a freeway so how could you build a FTTN Fibre to the Nowhere network.

 

[IFocus]

I want a Ferrari too, but don't want't to pay for it. Hence I don't have one.

I don't want to drive a brand new FJ Holden either

The copper net work is dieing, wireless wont cut it......ever unless you all have towers in your back yards. I was using fiber 18 years ago in process control to reduce electrical noise and yes to increase bandwidth strewth it isn't new.

Fiber is a long way from being a Ferrari.

 

[Julia]

Interesting point Julia...sounds like you are unaware of a small movement of concerned citizens that have long lobbied Govt's to replace overhead power with under ground on the premise of making our roads safer....ill quote a NSW RTA document so you get the general idea.



http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/roadsafety/downloads/reducing_trauma_utility_poles.pdf

Interesting in that other than research, nothing been done about it even thou there is a pretty solid argument for utility pole removal on safety grounds.

Thanks, So cynical. That's a really sensible point.
I've seen the issue raised in the past but instantly dismissed as being too expensive.

Hopefully Smurf will come across this question in the next day or two and cast his expert opinion about the feasibility of moving to all underground electricity and NBN.
That would be something I think most people would support increasing the deficit to fund.

 

[tothemax6]

I want a Ferrari too, but don't want't to pay for it. Hence I don't have one.

Nah thats OK, just go up and down your street stealing the money from everyone else, then you can buy it. I believe its called 'funding public sector projects'.

Who said we don't want it :dunno: i am a part of we and i want it....i mean seriously who doesn't want ultra fast, latest technology broadband, com-on how many people are reading this right now using a dial up connection or even DSL1? the answer is very few and that's because technology changes and as a society we want the fastest and the best....and the providers want to gives us that...problem is the infrastructure is dated and at breaking point and cannot continue to deliver the higher speeds and content loads required into the future.

The way forward was always a choice between patching up what we have (the cheap nasty coalition option) or building a new backbone using the latest technology (Expensive NBN) i reckon we are better off embracing change and going with the new expensive technology...but that's me and how i think...the ASF right and other coalition supporters here think differently, coalition supporters in general seem to be a little unwilling to pay.

Coalition supporters want fast and reliable broadband but don't want the expensive new NBN

Coalition supporters want to help flood victims but don't want to pay a levy

Coalition supporters want to help the environment and reduce GHG's but don't want to pay higher utility bills.

One could be left with the impression that coalition supports want good things to happen...just they don't want to actually pay for them.

Some coalition supporters, maybe. I'd say many, like I, just want the whole lot privatized. The USSR proved that central planning is the same thing as economic destruction, simply doing a fraction of that just makes it a fraction as bad. We don't recognize the validity of the concept "to get something good the government has to do it for us". We consider that a crock of #$#$.

You are skipping over my points. The money expropriated from people to pay for this, is money they do not have to buy the other things they like. What if the NBN were to cost 30% GDP? You could still say everything you just said.
Theft is still theft regardless of the agent. The role of the government is to uphold law, and the only legitimate tax is one to cover costs to this extent.

Besides, there are plenty of other things that could follow your reasoning. Space program would be nice, right? High-speed rail? Roads big enough to actually drive on without stupid traffic jams? Maybe more generators to lower to cost of electricity? More farms to lower the cost of food? How do we address these competing priorities? Easy - leave the money in peoples pockets, and they will decide based on what things they want and how much they want them.

 

[todster]

I have it on good opinion from one of my Queensland ALP contacts , that the NBN is to be "modified".

This will free up money for the Flood and Cyclone Reconstruction.

The word "scrapped" will not be used.

"Modified" is the buzzword.

One can imagine a Dalek saying it...."Modified, modified, modified"

gg

GG ALP contact= Labor voter who drinks at local watering hole!

 

[bellenuit]

A brilliant mobile network is absolutely dependant on a brilliant fixed network..what's the point of a perfect back bone that doesn't go to the home that's what Telstra did to us for 25 years!....you wouldn't build a gravel road to access a freeway so how could you build a FTTN Fibre to the Nowhere network.

Of course you would build a gravel road to access a freeway if the access is from a single user. The way the road network is built is that the roads get progressively better as you go from individual homes to the main arteries. A driveway to a single lane roadway to a dual carriageway to the freeway. You are suggesting we need a freeway to every home. The majority will not require that sort of access. Let those who want blindingly fast speeds pay for it and let those who are content with lesser speeds pay for what they require.

 

[drsmith]

Nope....... liberals were dead against it based on cost and lack of usage, Richard Court led the charge then relented to run it to Rockingham via Kenwick but not Mandurah. The extra to Mandurah was a cost of $20mil I think

From Wikipedia, including the 1'st sentence.

Legislation for the construction of the Mandurah Line was passed in December 1999.[2] The original proposed route branched from the Armadale Line at Kenwick, and then ran alongside the freight lines until Jandakot where it would run in the middle of the Kwinana Freeway. However, a bill passed in November 2002 after a change of state government saw that the route would start at Perth, traverse the Kwinana Freeway, and then continue along its initial route after Jandakot.[3] This second route was much more direct, and allowed through services with the Joondalup Line.

I can't remmember specifically whether the Court government had a staged program for construction or not, but they did pledge to build it branched through Kenwick as noted above.

 

[drsmith]

As with any large public project there was plenty of criticism around but Alana got it over the line, like I miss Keating from Federal politics I miss Alana from state politics.

Alannah did a good job. The final route selected for the Mandurah railway was the right choice and better than Ricardo's option.

Federal politics on both sides lack her substance.

 

[IFocus]

From Wikipedia, including the 1'st sentence.


I can't remmember specifically whether the Court government had a staged program for construction or not, but they did pledge to build it branched through Kenwick as noted above.

Yes my remiss it was the argument over the direction and the higher risk of the tunnels sinking the Perth stations not if they were going to build it.