National Broadband Network

[bellenuit]

just going to repost an answer to a question of "What are we going to use the NBN for/how is it going to aid us economically" on another forum:

The assumption implicit in your list is that the world is going to stop for every other technology apart from NBN. Fibre to the premises will be rolled out when and if required, but it will be a based on hard cold economics at the time of the decision rather than on a fuzzy feel good wish list many years in advance.

As I said in a previous note, you have to look at the complete end to end solution and if all your investment is tied up in the network, there may be nothing left over for the other components. What is the point of remote medical diagnosis capability in every home if it requires a nurse, say, to attach the probes, but there is no money left in the budget to hire additional nurses.

And even if the NBN can make video stores obsolete by enabling video on demand of 3D/HD movies, is that the best use of our scarce resources.

Somebody likened the NBN to putting a 4 lane toll road to everyone's house. That includes those who don't have a car, those who can't drive and those who for whatever reason prefer other forms of transport or only infrequently drive. You can also come up with a list of deliverables that the 4-lane tollway can uniquely deliver to the house, but that doesn't mean it is the right thing to do with limited resources.

 

[glenn_r]

Well for a start Telstra's 9+ million home phone customers will be forced over to it.



Here's a link to the NBN plans iiNet are offering in Tasmania...starts at $49 a month. http://www.iinet.net.au/nbn/

And below ill post a speed test comparison of my ADSL2 connection in Sydney and some guy with NBN in Tasmania both pinging a Melbourne server.
~

I wonder what sort of bill my kids could rack up if we had that download speed....They already max out our 30gig fusion plan.

 

[drsmith]

The Govt spends 100 billion annually on welfare...what sort of return on investment do you think would be an appropriate return?

Or the 14 Billion they will spend on the Joint strike Fighter...what sort of a return should we expect from that spend?

Welfare and defence are basic government services.

 

[boofhead]

I wonder what sort of bill my kids could rack up if we had that download speed....They already max out our 30gig fusion plan.

Many customer friendlier ISPs offer fixed monthly pricing where speeds are capped. Some offer mechanisms to pay extra to remove the speed caps.

The Australian government is expanding online services. Newstart can be applied for (fortnightly reporting) and processed online with periodic interviews. Potentially the government could find a way for ISPs to peer and maybe even route the traffic to the nearest POP of the customer thus eliminating backhaul costs for ISPs.

 

[glenn_r]

Maybe the Kiwi's have a way of increasing speed at a lower cost?

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...ster-at-no-extra-cost/articleshow/6314808.cms

 

[boofhead]

Maybe the Kiwi's have a way of increasing speed at a lower cost?

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...ster-at-no-extra-cost/articleshow/6314808.cms

http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/gadgets/4025300/Kiwi-device-to-make-broadband-50X-faster is a better source. It isn't 50x but 50% increase. I'm having a bit of trouble finding more details about it.

 

[Calliope]

This is just another thought bubble. If she was genuine, what's stopping her from doing it now? What's Labor's national broadband network got to do with it?

In a new policy announcement, she has revealed a plan for patients in rural, regional and outer suburban areas to claim a Medicare rebate for consultations with city specialists in their local doctor's office via Labor's national broadband network. The plan reportedly has been costed at nearly $400 million.

Read more: http://www.news.com.au/features/fed...ne/story-e6frfllr-1225905777085#ixzz0wkLGVfyJ

 

[boofhead]

How can she do it now? There is no NBN mainland deployment - it is only just beginning.

 

[overhang]

The assumption implicit in your list is that the world is going to stop for every other technology apart from NBN. Fibre to the premises will be rolled out when and if required, but it will be a based on hard cold economics at the time of the decision rather than on a fuzzy feel good wish list many years in advance.

As I said in a previous note, you have to look at the complete end to end solution and if all your investment is tied up in the network, there may be nothing left over for the other components. What is the point of remote medical diagnosis capability in every home if it requires a nurse, say, to attach the probes, but there is no money left in the budget to hire additional nurses.

And even if the NBN can make video stores obsolete by enabling video on demand of 3D/HD movies, is that the best use of our scarce resources.

Somebody likened the NBN to putting a 4 lane toll road to everyone's house. That includes those who don't have a car, those who can't drive and those who for whatever reason prefer other forms of transport or only infrequently drive. You can also come up with a list of deliverables that the 4-lane tollway can uniquely deliver to the house, but that doesn't mean it is the right thing to do with limited resources.

You raise some great points. I think what a lot of people forget though is it's 42 billion over 8 years, this equates to $260 per person or $583 per household over the 8 year duration. If this were a 1-2 year investment then there is no question that the 42 billion would be more appropriately spent on health, education etc but as this takes 8 years to complete, this is something that cannot be addressed when the time arises as our corroding copper network will be dysfunctional.
When will there ever be a time where we can spare nurses for E-health? When elective surgery times are under 2 weeks? When hospital beds are at 80% capacity? I think the infrastructure needs to be in place before allocating nurses and the trouble with health care is how much to the dollar is wasted on bureaucracy.
Now to the road analogy lets say a new estate was developed that can hold 500 houses but the estate is slow to get of the ground and only 20 lots are sold. Now the local government looking at this figure thinks only a single lane road will be required to access this estate. But a sudden boom occurs and all 500 lots are occupied only to find they are stuck in traffic jams and that a 4 lane tollway is required. The catch is however the 4 lane tollway will take years to build. So what looked to be an overkill at first would have prevented these homeowners being stuck in traffic each day.

 

[So_Cynical]

Welfare and defence are basic government services.

I would argue that big ticket infrastructure is also a basic Government duty...who built the old copper network? who built the bulk of the electricity distribution network? would private enterprise build the snowy scheme?

remember the last 2 Sydney - Melbourne very fast trains...come to nothing after the Govt feasibility money ran out....Dr you are obviously a fan of do nothing, hands off government, 1 vote Tony is your 'go to man' when you want nothing done.

The NBN debate really focuses our choice in this election...going forward with Julia and going nowhere with Tony...i know where i want this country to go.

 

[trainspotter]

OMFG ... look over there ! Quick look ... a great shiny bauble for everyone to pontificate over. It, it, it looks like a bit of fibre optic cable. It can replace our hospitals with E Health ! It can teach our children at warp speed. It will make our streets safer. It will make rain fall from the sky. It will make all other technologies redundant and EVERYONE will want to use it. YA HAVE GOT TO BE JOKING ME !!

Are you even listening to yourselves? Have a look around peoples. We need more nurses BEFORE we need a piece of cable. We need more teachers BEFORE we need a NBN. We need more police BEFORE we need a data IT downstream project specifity of 100kds kafoopises whatsits. We need more water programmes to keep us alive on this arid continent we live on. Telstra is dropping fixed lines and we want to replace it with .... wait for it ... a fibre optic cable !! WOW !

GEEEEEEZUZ CHRIST !! We can't even get HD TV right so what chance have we got of this going well? HUH ??

Talk about fiddling whilst Rome burns eh Nero?

 

[trainspotter]

Can anyone show me a cost benefit analysis on the NBN?

Or what about this then ? Now we - or rather Kevin Rudd and Stephen Conroy and the man who used to be the last competent minister in this government, Lindsay Tanner - are embarked on spending upwards of $40 billion, to increase our access speed all of five times. From that 20 mbps to 100 mbps. WOW !! 5 times already.

Or what about this then ? Indeed, spending upwards of $40 billion to perhaps not even increase the speed at all, in much of Melbourne! Because Telstra can already deliver speeds up to 100 mbps to much of Melbourne down its HFC (Foxtel) cable.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/busines...-to-speed-on-nbn/story-e6frfig6-1225882507897

Yeah ... I WANT SUPERFAST INTERNET ! No wait ... I have it already ... on my boat in the middle of the harbour.

P.S. I don't want Tony Abbotts Frankenstein "me too" version of the internet either.

 

[AngusSmart]

How much will they make off all the scrapped copper they are going to pull from the ground?

 

[So_Cynical]

Anyone else watching '1 Vote Tony' on Q & A ..he wants to spend 40 Billion over 10 years on paid parental leave..How come no one's carrying on about that 40 Billion...talk about a total waste of money.

Where's the cost benefit analysis for 40 billion on paid parental leave.

Yeah ... I WANT SUPERFAST INTERNET ! No wait ... I have it already ... on my boat in the middle of the harbour.

Want to post a speed test for that

 

[moXJO]

Anyone else watching '1 Vote Tony' on Q & A ..he wants to spend 40 Billion over 10 years on paid parental leave..How come no one's carrying on about that 40 Billion...talk about a total waste of money.

Where's the cost benefit analysis for 40 billion on paid parental leave.



Want to post a speed test for that

I think Abbotts paid parental leave is a stupid idea. Unfortunately it's the only way to bribe the workers back after the work choices scare. I would rather have the NBN then PPL

 

[trainspotter]

Anyone else watching '1 Vote Tony' on Q & A ..he wants to spend 40 Billion over 10 years on paid parental leave..How come no one's carrying on about that 40 Billion...talk about a total waste of money.

Where's the cost benefit analysis for 40 billion on paid parental leave. :banghead

Want to post a speed test for that

I was trying to keep the politics out of this thread. How much is Labors PPL costing? HUH ?

I do not agree with this monumental stuff up as well. BUT the funding is being raised from small business in the form of a levy of 1.5% I believe? Labor Party PPL money is coming from where again?

Where is the money coming from for the NBN. Oooooh the tax payer ?

I am responding to you at about 6 beers per hour .... wanna go faster? I can keep up.

Did you miss this So_Cycical ?(deliberate typo on the name BTW) Because Telstra can already deliver speeds up to 100 mbps to much of Melbourne down its HFC (Foxtel) cable.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/business...-1225882507897

 

[So_Cynical]

Here's a list of city's and towns that get fibre or next gen wireless.

http://alp.org.au/getattachment/fb455905-5958-46b8-84cd-36e33c96e973/nbn/

There's like 500 pages of intelligent NBN discussion over at whirlpool....apparently the middle of the harbour is good for 12mbit wireless.

 

[trainspotter]

Here's a list of city's and towns that get fibre or next gen wireless.

http://alp.org.au/getattachment/fb455905-5958-46b8-84cd-36e33c96e973/nbn/

There's like 500 pages of intelligent NBN discussion over at whirlpool....apparently the middle of the harbour is good for 12mbit wireless.

Fantastic ! I can also get internet on my Blackberry at this speed. I am not against the technology at all. I am more for sorting out what we have first PRIOR to rushing in to spending billions of dollars of taxpayers money. What good is a high speed internet to me when I can't see a doctor when I am sick? What good is this whizzbang cable going to do for my computer illeterate 83 year old parents? HUH ? They don;t even own a computer. How old is the national population and how many of them keep up with the latest technology ? Great benefit to them isn't it !!

I don't give a toss if it is Libs or Labs or Greens or WHATEVER ... we do not need this kind of technology YET !! FIX what we have now with housing, education, hospitals, policing, water infrastructure ........ ohhhhhhhhhh I am wasting my time now.

JINGO's !!!!!!!! this kind of wastefullness makes me angry

and again ...... Because Telstra can already deliver speeds up to 100 mbps to much of Melbourne down its HFC (Foxtel) cable.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/business...-1225882507897

 

[trainspotter]

Here's a list of city's and towns that get fibre or next gen wireless.

http://alp.org.au/getattachment/fb455905-5958-46b8-84cd-36e33c96e973/nbn/

There's like 500 pages of intelligent NBN discussion over at whirlpool....apparently the middle of the harbour is good for 12mbit wireless.

Hahahahha ahh "intelligent" discussion at whirlpool. You mean this place ?

NBN - time to reset the vision
By Sydney Low
Monday, 16 August 2010 09:58

IT Policy - Government Tech Policy

OPINION: I have been on the Internet since 1995, selling Apple Newton software via email and web sites. I co-founded Australia's largest free ISP in 2000 and I've built 3 other online-Internet companies. I can claim to know a bit about online businesses.

In the April 2000 Internet, telco and tech meltdown, one of the catalyst was the vendor-finance fuelled build out of bandwidth capacity. Build the pipes and they will come was the mantra that companies like PSINet, Lucent Technologies and other hardware manufacturers and their investors spent billions funding. What happened? No bandwidth consuming apps arrived and no companies had any business case to pay for using the massive fibre-optic pipes.

Does this sound all too familiar? For my part, it certainly does. The NBN with the claimed 1 Gbit per second download speeds will transform Australia. What utter rubbish. What a great albatross around Australian's necks it will be. The vision for NBN should be ensuring a price-capped ADSL2 or equivalent access to 99.99% of Australians. Here's why:

http://www.itwire.com/it-policy-news/government-tech-policy/41173-nbn-time-to-reset-the-vision

Bwaahahahahhahaha aaaa ... Sydney Low is a serial entrepreneur. He has built several companies around software, Internet access and mobile phones. Previously, he provided advice to Australian and US companies on the strategic use of technologies as a partner at Mitchell Madison Group and McKinsey & Company. He is currently the CEO of RedTxt.com.au - a company that is pioneering the development of sponsor-funded SMS for communities.

Article came from here ... http://whirlpool.net.au/ ... about No7 on the hit list

 

[So_Cynical]

Article came from here ... http://whirlpool.net.au/ ... about No7 on the hit list

Yeh that's from the front page were they just link to the latest articles and what ever is in the press etc...the good stuff is in there discussion forum, the tab over on the left hand side, below the broadband choice tab..you want the broadband forum for NBN content.